Toggle sidebar Toggle sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

iOS Team: STOP THE ANNUAL UPDATES

Morac said:
Knowing about a bug and knowing how to fix it are two completely different things. For example Apple knows there's a problem with Wifi in iOS 8,'but if they knew how to fix it, it would have been fixed in iOS 8.0.1/2 and Apple engineering wouldn't have their senior support advisors reaching out to customers (like me) to get logging data on the problem.

I'm a software developer (not iOS) and I've never once had a problem with having too much data about a problem. Usually it's the opposite.

As for iOS 8, basically it was a complete overhaul of iOS and they only had 5 months to do it. Apple has no automated test tools. All testing is done by hand. It's a wonder iOS 8 even runs at all.
Click to expand...

... and you know this how?
 
CalWizrd said:
... and you know this how?
Click to expand...


I'm assuming you are referring to the 3rd paragraph. Since I explained the first paragraph and the 2nd is about me.

You can tell how much changed in iOS 8, by the required free space to upgrade to it. The more files that changed, the more space needed. iOS 8 required nearly double the amount of free space as iOS 7 did, which means it changed a lot more. It's also why iOS 8 is so buggy.
 
Gav2k said:
A public beta program like Yosemite would help them massively.
Click to expand...

They'd have a huge amount of people interested, but they'd have to be very careful that they made sure that nothing like iOS 8.0.1 happened.

Morac said:
I'm assuming you are referring to the 3rd paragraph. Since I explained the first paragraph and the 2nd is about me.

You can tell how much changed in iOS 8, by the required free space to upgrade to it. The more files that changed, the more space needed. iOS 8 required nearly double the amount of free space as iOS 7 did, which means it changed a lot more. It's also why iOS 8 is so buggy.
Click to expand...


Actually, they bolded some stuff that I think is what they wanted you to answer...
 
iOS Team: STOP THE ANNUAL UPDATES

kerrikins said:
Actually, they bolded some stuff that I think is what they wanted you to answer...
Click to expand...


Ah, I'm using Tapatalk to read this and the bolding doesn't show up there.

In any case, it was in a blog post from when Apple opened up one of their test facilities after "Bend-gate". I can't remember where it was, but it mentioned Apple does most of their testing manually.
 
Morac said:
Ah, I'm using Tapatalk to read this and the bolding doesn't show up there.

In any case, it was in a blog post from when Apple opened up one of their test facilities after "Bend-gate". I can't remember where it was, but it mentioned Apple does most of their testing manually.
Click to expand...

So now you have backtracked from "all of their testing is done by hand" to "most of their testing is done by hand".

Having been in the software development business for more than 40 years, and having done some consulting at Apple in the 90's, I seriously doubt that either one of these statements has much resemblance to accuracy, independent of what you think you read.
 
Gav2k said:
A public beta program like Yosemite would help them massively.
Click to expand...

No it wouldn't. They have 10 million registered developers, most of whom are iOS developers, all installing the beta software.

They had to do a public beta for Yosemite because the sheer numbers are far lower on the Mac side, and they wanted a larger sampling group like what they already have for iOS.

The explanation for buggy releases is one of two things in my mind (and perhaps a bit of both).

1. Quality control standards have slipped a bit...given the minimal of people that will actually complain about bugs or bugginess, it has become acceptable to ship buggy first releases.

2. Software development is harder than uninformed bloggers realize, and even the magicians at Apple can't include breakthrough new features every year without some minimal bugs.
 
I'm not defending anything but the expectation of no bugs is unrealistic, there will always be bugs. Also, the expectation of fixes cascading out as they are done is unrealistic. Microsoft did this and it cause a lack of faith that the software was perpetually broke. Further, fixes will break other things in the software, just like new features do, they will need time to fix them.

Are all these bugs good, of course not, should there be less, of course there should. But Apple is in a no win situation, if it releases with no new features it will be bashed, if it releases without features people are expecting it is bashed, if they released without a complete redesign each year they are bashed and if they give everyone everything and there are bugs they are bashed. They cannot win when it comes to expectations, there are too many and they too varied.
 
Padmini said:
No it wouldn't. They have 10 million registered developers, most of whom are iOS developers, all installing the beta software.
Click to expand...

And with all those developers it still took a public release to elicit negative feedback about the Camera Roll being changed.
 
clevins said:
I think they need to decouple major updates from new iPhone releases. Right now, the annual hardware releases are driving software updates. Rather than forcing a major version bump each year, release a minor version that supports the new hardware and release the major version when it's ready. If that tends to be every 18 months, that's fine.

So, in this case, we'd have seen, say, iOS 7.1.3 or 7.2 to support the 6 and 6 Plus. In another few months, when it's really really solid, iOS 8.

Alternatively, size the annual major version updates so they can be done to a higher quality level in only 12 months and don't add/change so much in each major revision.
Click to expand...

But anyone remember the new 'system extensions' they would release with every new system pre-OSX?

The problem with less frequent updates is that bugs don't get fixed as quickly, or you have to have a lot of little updates coming out more frequently and then people get inundated with those 'little' updates flying around like mosquitoes...

Having major updates coincide with new product isn't Apple's latest problem. TESTING the damn updates on their new hardware before it leaves the confine IS!

How many people think that heads would have rolled for such a freaking unbelievable mess if it had happened say five years ago.

I've done some software development in my days, and you test and test and test again, you try to find some of the more popular but exotic environments to test in 'Just In Case'...

Sure, it is true that nothing tests like releasing the product to the public, but come on... Having massive failures on your new products with the update you also just released is ridiculous. That's 'junior level' crap. And now Bluetooth is 'broken' on their other 'new technology' innovation, CarPlay? Really??? This is the kind of crap that kills companies!

Apple doesn't need to slow the updates, they need to TEST the damned updates before they send them out!

The public expects less drama, and more 'WOW!' from a company that used to tout itself as 'Think(ing) Different'...
 
I think the iOS 8 release has been a mini disaster from my viewpoint. I love Apple products and services but this time I am really disappointed. I was really looking forward to iOS 8 because some of the new features are very nice but right out the gates, most don't work and are buggy as hell. Let's take a closer look:

1. 3rd Party Keyboards are still buggy as hell. If you don't still have it disappear on you randomly, you have to scroll to see the latest text messages before you type. I gave up and will just stick with default keyboard.

2. WIFI is a hot mess. I just got through rebooting my iPhone 6 just so it can see my work WIFI. This occurs daily.

3. Re-springs and reboots occur often. I've had my iPhone 6 and iPad Mini re-spring or reboot several times in the past few days randomly. Never had issues like this pre-iOS 8.

4. Bluetooth works flawless for me but many people are on here complaining about issues so clearly something is wrong there as well.

5. iCloud Drive 'Nuff Said!

That's it off the top of my head but many of those are significant issues that I would consider show stoppers.

Apple is now working on 8.1 (which I expect to be released next week or two), 8.2, and 8.3 (probably releasing in March 2015) that may signify that iOS 9 will not get a lot of quality time dedicated to it and could be just as bad as iOS 8. This is concerning. Maybe iOS 8.5 should be on the S release devices and change to iOS 9 on the 2 year mark? This would allow for a two year development cycle for new OSes with a lot more changes and features with the added bonus of more testing time. The .5 releases will give us more bug fixes and features but will not require a full on team to work on.

I'm rooting for you Apple. Get it together. :apple:
 
Black Magic said:
Maybe iOS 8.5 should be on the S release devices and change to iOS 9 on the 2 year mark? This would allow for a two year development cycle for new OSes with a lot more changes and features with the added bonus of more testing time. The .5 releases will give us more bug fixes and features but will not require a full on team to work on.
Click to expand...

Good idea.
 
I was under the assumption the OTA delta updates was going to make it easier for Apple to do faster release cycles for small security and feature enhancements. But from what I've seen, apple has only used the OTA delta updates for security/severe bug updates and the feature updates coincide with new hardware which is a pure marketing/sales/hype philosophy.
 
Black Magic said:
Maybe iOS 8.5 should be on the S release devices and change to iOS 9 on the 2 year mark? This would allow for a two year development cycle for new OSes with a lot more changes and features with the added bonus of more testing time. The .5 releases will give us more bug fixes and features but will not require a full on team to work on.
Click to expand...

DomC said:
Good idea.
Click to expand...

😕 How does changing the name of the releases fix anything? Wouldn't "a lot more changes and features" mean less time for quality control?

Or do you really think that Apple doesn't begin work on new features until the previous OS ships?

Smith288 said:
I was under the assumption the OTA delta updates was going to make it easier for Apple to do faster release cycles for small security and feature enhancements. But from what I've seen, apple has only used the OTA delta updates for security/severe bug updates and the feature updates coincide with new hardware which is a pure marketing/sales/hype philosophy.
Click to expand...

X.x updates are feature updates.
X.x.x updates are security/bugfix updates.

So iOS 5,6,7 have each received a feature update. iOS 8 is rumored to have 3 feature updates.
 
DomC said:
And with all those developers it still took a public release to elicit negative feedback about the Camera Roll being changed.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Developers aren't looking at the same stuff that the general public gets annoyed by. Devs are looking for bugs in their software while users are testing out the user experience.

So things like the keyboard globe positioning constantly changing, the horrible horrible 6+ landscape keyboard, icloud or the omission of the camera roll are things that could be stomped out early if beta tested by plain old Apple enthusiasts.
 
BaldiMac said:
😕 How does changing the name of the releases fix anything? Wouldn't "a lot more changes and features" mean less time for quality control?

Or do you really think that Apple doesn't begin work on new features until the previous OS ships?

2 year cycle for complete version changes will allow for more time to test new a features being implemented.

X.x updates are feature updates.
X.x.x updates are security/bugfix updates.

So iOS 5,6,7 have each received a feature update. iOS 8 is rumored to have 3 feature updates.
Click to expand...

2 year cycle for complete version changes will allow for more time to test new features being implemented.

The .5 updates would add less features but would not consume the entire iOS development team.
 
Last edited:
We need a Snow iOS 8 update next year. Make everything efficient, fast and stable—even in iCloud. They should have a tick-tock cycle. One year work on laying the foundation for the features for the next year. Instead of shoehorning on extra features, architect everything in advance and make it stable. Then work on refining the actual features themselves and any related cloud services.

And not to beat an old horse, but I do have to wonder how many of these problems would be an issue if Apple had implemented a proper amount of RAM in these devices from the start. Everyone waxes poetic about how efficient iOS is and doesn't need more RAM. Oh really? Have you used it lately?

My coworker who is is fairly average when it comes to being tech savvy came into my office the other day complaining about iOS and how buggy it has become. He went on and on about all the problems he has, and then I asked him "So what is the solution? Do we all need to go with a different phone?" and he was like "Hell no, Android is even worse." Apple needs to realize that they're on thin ice, even with average users. To the average consumer they're about one step away from being Android, and two steps away from being worse. I'm not quite to that point, as I believe Apple values privacy more than Google and that wins them some points with me, but even still. As I said to my coworker, "We wanted all the fancy Android features, and we got them. What we didn't expect were all the Android-like bugs that came along with them."

I think this new openness from Apple might come back and bite them in the arse. It will be interesting to see how things shake out over the upcoming months and if their stance changes in iOS 9.
 
Black Magic said:
2 year cycle for complete version changes will allow for more time to test new features being implemented.

The .5 updates would add less features but would not consume the entire iOS development team.
Click to expand...

How would it allow for more time? You said that you could add "a lot more changes and features." How can you add "a lot more changes and features" in the same amount of time and have more time to test? Releasing more features at once seems like more of a quality control nightmare.

Are you saying that Apple should have released iOS 7 this year and then iOS 8 in two years? That's seems unrealistic for many reasons including marketing and the pace of technology. If you did continued that release schedule, the gap between what's possible and what's released would grow bigger and bigger over time.

Sorry if I'm sounding argumentative, but I just don't think you've thought this through. I think improvements in quality control processes are the primary solution to release problems.

But I also don't think that quality control for Apple is significantly worse than any other point in their history. I think that more than half a billion users and Apple's media spotlight amplifies the problems that have always been a part of major software releases. (I'd love if there was a way to measure the issues with each release, so we didn't have to rely on which ones "feel" buggier. 🙂)
 
Last edited:
The main problems with bug hunting is when you fix one you make another one. Then you fix that one and create 2 more. Then you fix those and a 3rd party app doesn't work so you have to try and fix that.
It's not as simple as "here's a bug, fixed. Next."
I use to be on a game addon development team and it was a full time commitment just bug hunting. I can't imagine what Apple devs go through on a daily basis.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back