iOS Team: STOP THE ANNUAL UPDATES

[TechGod]

I disagree almost entirely. Public betas are useful for rooting out edge case bugs that don't happen to everyone, or even a large number of people.

The bugs in iOS 8 have been apparent to every developer (and presumably Apple) since the very first beta. They just didn't fix them all.

Yosemite is becoming SO bug-free the public beta program really helped because ML and Mavericks were both disasters when they were initially released.Yosemite? It's so damn bugless. very happy with it.

 

[Padmini]

And with all those developers it still took a public release to elicit negative feedback about the Camera Roll being changed.

I think it's really funny (that you would assume) that a few hundred people complaining on a blog had anything I do with that.

Let me break it down for you:

1. iCloud Photo Library was supposed to launch with iOS 8. It didn't. What did launch was a bastardized Photos app for anyone without iCloud Photo Library (beta).

2. iCloud Photo Library isn't launching soon, so they've prepared a semi-rollback with 8.1.

3. If you don't have iCloud Photo Library (beta) in iOS 8.1, you have an album called Camera Roll. If you do have iCloud Photo Library (beta), you DO NOT have an album called Camera Roll. Instead, and much more logically, you have an album called All Photos.

 

[DomC]

I think it's really funny (that you would assume) that a few hundred people complaining on a blog had anything I do with that.

I don't know, it seemed like a good assumption. Apple didn't add the Bolder font option to iOS7 until there was a public release and users complained about the boneheaded thin fonts.

 

[Smeaton1724]

There's no problem with annual updates, the problem is completely forced updates.

When iOS 7 launched it was a complete relaunch of the OS so things just 'had' to be updated. This year they are doing it with Yosemite.

My only regret is upgrading to iOS 8 and iCloud Drive as my Mac is working great on Mavericks and it's critical I keep Parallels in action for work purposes. The issue I've run in to is I have gone from using iCloud and syncing documents etc, to now not using iCloud Drive at all or Pages, Numbers, Keynote on the iPad as no documents sync from Mavericks - unless I start using the web interface.

I would like more iOS/OSX compatibility is I'm honest. Why can't Mavericks be updated to support iCloud Drive?!

 

[Parasprite]

There's no problem with annual updates, the problem is completely forced updates.

When iOS 7 launched it was a complete relaunch of the OS so things just 'had' to be updated. This year they are doing it with Yosemite.

My only regret is upgrading to iOS 8 and iCloud Drive as my Mac is working great on Mavericks and it's critical I keep Parallels in action for work purposes. The issue I've run in to is I have gone from using iCloud and syncing documents etc, to now not using iCloud Drive at all or Pages, Numbers, Keynote on the iPad as no documents sync from Mavericks - unless I start using the web interface.

I would like more iOS/OSX compatibility is I'm honest. Why can't Mavericks be updated to support iCloud Drive?!

The most obnoxious part is that you can't just decide to use the web interface on Yosemite because, for whatever reason, they don't let you use it unless your account is upgraded to iCloud Drive.

I can forgive server outages because they do happen, but this artificial restriction has completely severed access to my files on campus for the last few weeks. I am seriously considering moving away from iCloud (sans email) because I can't even trust that I'll have access to my own files. I've been looking into OneDrive and it looks pretty promising.

 

[donnaw]

I worked 25+ years in software development. Over 50 projects, many multi-million $$ projects.

1). Tying software updates rollouts to hardware release dates is a bad way to do it. I understand Apple and Apple fans loving the hype and fanfare but this absolutely precludes pushing back rollouts if major issues happen to be found. A better user experience resulting from a pushback of the rollout deadline should be paramount. Sometimes just a week can make all the difference.

2). Apple should think about doing more releases during the year. Implement just a few new things at a time. Any time you insert new code something old will break. The more code, the more breaks. And in-house testing can never find them all. It is entirely possible to implement every new feature Apple wants in a calendar year. But doing so all at once is just asking for major issues. Let your devs be more agile.

As I stated above I've worked on a lot of projects. Some very, very big rollouts. One lesson learned was that if we implemented more frequent, less complicated rollouts we were able to put out more stable software, our users were happier and we were less stressed (which lead to fewer bugs). Plus we could still put in all the features we wanted. But we didn't want nor care for secrecy.

 

[3282868]

Same with the OS X team. QoS has been comprised since Apple moved OS X to an annual release since 10.7. A year of debugging delta updates is not long enough nor accurate, if clean installs aren't performed for every beta as was the case before 10.7, debugging OS X could be compromised by third party app's and plugins. It should be a clean install on a secondary partition, and it shouldn't be annual. Period.

 

[Smith288]

😕 How does changing the name of the releases fix anything? Wouldn't "a lot more changes and features" mean less time for quality control?



Or do you really think that Apple doesn't begin work on new features until the previous OS ships?







X.x updates are feature updates.

X.x.x updates are security/bugfix updates.



So iOS 5,6,7 have each received a feature update. iOS 8 is rumored to have 3 feature updates.

I know what versioning is. I'm a dev. I'm talking about Apple under utilizing their delta updating for feature enhancements.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Same with the OS X team. QoS has been comprised since Apple moved OS X to an annual release since 10.7. A year of debugging delta updates is not long enough nor accurate, if clean installs aren't performed for every beta as was the case before 10.7, debugging OS X could be compromised by third party app's and plugins. It should be a clean install on a secondary partition, and it shouldn't be annual. Period.

But clean installs aren't what most users do. Delta updates are. Finding problems with compatibility with third party apps/plugins is essential. They can then fix the bug (if it is a bug) or if new features in the OS make the app incompatible and there is nothing that can be done, disable the app if need be, or inform devs so that they can update their apps.

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I'm assuming you are referring to the 3rd paragraph. Since I explained the first paragraph and the 2nd is about me.

You can tell how much changed in iOS 8, by the required free space to upgrade to it. The more files that changed, the more space needed. iOS 8 required nearly double the amount of free space as iOS 7 did, which means it changed a lot more. It's also why iOS 8 is so buggy.

I think he was wondering how you knew that iOS was completely tested by hand without any automation?

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Still the best version.

God no, It was abysmal on release.

 

[Padmini]

I don't know, it seemed like a good assumption. Apple didn't add the Bolder font option to iOS7 until there was a public release and users complained about the boneheaded thin fonts.

That isn't even remotely true. iOS 7 went through lots of font modificatIon during the beta period, regardless of so called user complaint. In the end the "thin" fonts remain, and there is a bold fonts option in settings to go along with font sizes.

 

[3282868]

But clean installs aren't what most users do. Delta updates are. Finding problems with compatibility with third party apps/plugins is essential. They can then fix the bug (if it is a bug) or if new features in the OS make the app incompatible and there is nothing that can be done, disable the app if need be, or inform devs so that they can update their apps.

I've been a developer since 10.1. It worked better when developers had to download beta's in clean installs, and installed any revilement third party app's they were working on. The developers of other app's were responsible for debugging their own app's. As development took any where from 1 1/2 - 2 1/2 years depending on release, it was enough time for developers to work out their own app's. Relying on others to debug other app's in addition to their own, and in addition to debugging OS X is actually creating more problems than solving. Since OS X should not be used as one's primary system, which has been an increasing trend, isolating OS X bugs across increasingly numerous hardware profiles and third party app's and plugin's does make it difficult for Apple engineers to isolate specific OS X bugs. It worked better before 10.7 annual delta updates.

 

[DomC]

That isn't even remotely true. iOS 7 went through lots of font modificatIon during the beta period, regardless of so called user complaint. In the end the "thin" fonts remain, and there is a bold fonts option in settings to go along with font sizes.

But when did the bold font option actually appear? When did the Dynamic Text option appear? When did Reduce Motion and Increase Contrast appear? Button Shapes?
Were all those in the pipeline and would have appeared even if there weren't any comments from users after the initial release?

OK

 

[Padmini]

But when did the bold font option actually appear? When did the Dynamic Text option appear? When did Reduce Motion and Increase Contrast appear? Button Shapes?
Were all those in the pipeline and would have appeared even if there weren't any comments from users after the initial release?

OK

Those are all Accesibility features, and if you think a few whiny people on forums dictate any of what Apple does, you're the one to whom I say...OK. SURE.

Only in iOS 8 did bold font and dynamic text get promoted out of Accesibility into Display settings, after a year of usage data.

 

[Morac]

Those are all Accesibility features, and if you think a few whiny people on forums dictate any of what Apple does, you're the one to whom I say...OK. SURE.



Only in iOS 8 did bold font and dynamic text get promoted out of Accesibility into Display settings, after a year of usage data.

Reduce Motion was a direct result of the vocal minority saying iOS 7's zooming in and out was making them physically sick. It showed up in the release after major news networks picked up on the story.

If you think that was something Apple had always planned to do, then why didn't they do it until the media blitz?

 

[Padmini]

Reduce Motion was a direct result of the vocal minority saying iOS 7's zooming in and out was making them physically sick. It showed up in the release after major news networks picked up on the story.

If you think that was something Apple had always planned to do, then why didn't they do it until the media blitz?

On the flip side, you could (wrongly) interpret everything Apple does as reactionary just because someone somewhere said they should.

 

[Act3]

On the flip side, you could (wrongly) interpret everything Apple does as reactionary just because someone somewhere said they should.

imo, the larger screen sizes in the iPhone 6/6s are all reactionary. If android phones didn't have a size larger than 4", the iphone 6 would be 4". one handed device was their marketing for the smaller screen.

 

[Padmini]

imo, the larger screen sizes in the iPhone 6/6s are all reactionary. If android phones didn't have a size larger than 4", the iphone 6 would be 4". one handed device was their marketing for the smaller screen.

You don't seem to know how marketing works. Whatever you do is the best thing you've ever done and everything doesn't make sense.....until the next thing you do, which is NOW the best thing you've ever done and everything else doesn't make sense.

Apple released the iPod Photo and trashed video on small screens 1 year before coming out with iPod Video.

You have to understand how things work. They are not gonna release small screen devices and say, "we know some people want larger screens". That's not how PR works.

There is a reason why PR and Marketing are things. They work. Most people don't see past the end of their nose.

 

[Act3]

You don't seem to know how marketing works. Whatever you do is the best thing you've ever done and everything doesn't make sense.....until the next thing you do, which is NOW the best thing you've ever done and everything else doesn't make sense.

Apple released the iPod Photo and trashed video on small screens 1 year before coming out with iPod Video.

You have to understand how things work. They are not gonna release small screen devices and say, "we know some people want larger screens". That's not how PR works.

There is a reason why PR and Marketing are things. They work. Most people don't see past the end of their nose.

reactionary marketing, marketing is still part of apple, and imo, it is still reactionary

 

[Padmini]

reactionary marketing, marketing is still part of apple, and imo, it is still reactionary

No, that's all marketing.

 

[Act3]

No, that's all marketing.

bottom line, apple was not proactive in releasing the iphone in a larger screen even though the technology was there. Other companies with android devices did. Apple marketed their 4" product as being the sweet spot for one handed use. Android phones took a chunk of the market because the users wanted bigger screens. Apple changes their strategy and releases an iPhone with a larger screen. Sounds reactionary to me.

 

[Padmini]

bottom line, apple was not proactive in releasing the iphone in a larger screen even though the technology was there. Other companies with android devices did. Apple marketed their 4" product as being the sweet spot for one handed use. Android phones took a chunk of the market because the users wanted bigger screens. Apple changes their strategy and releases an iPhone with a larger screen. Sounds reactionary to me.

On what planet are Android devices and iPhones actually comparable?

It really irritates me the way people causally compare the devices as if they are remotely similar in any way at all.

They are about as similar as English and Mandarin.

 

[Act3]

On what planet are Android devices and iPhones actually comparable?

It really irritates me the way people causally compare the devices as if they are remotely similar in any way at all.

They are about as similar as English and Mandarin.

I never said they were comparable.

A fact that both devices can send text messages, surf internet, use email, take pictures and even call other people does make them remotely similar.

They are both smartphones for eff sakes.

Sorry if that irritates you.

 

[I7guy]

I never said they were comparable.

A fact that both devices can send text messages, surf internet, use email, take pictures and even call other people does make them remotely similar.

They are both smartphones for eff sakes.

Sorry if that irritates you.

Sure. A ford pinto and Bugatti are also similar. 4 tires, brakes, accelerator and steering wheel, and both transport from point a to point b.

 

[AdonisSMU]

I want more updates. Apple should offer more frequent updates and still make them better then they have been. It's not a time issue, or not only a time issue. There is a competence and attitude problem over there. They just need to stop being complacent and really work harder and better.

I think Apple needs to release features when they are ready and implement a strict QA policy to test all releases with developers first before hoisting them on the general public. Doing a quarterly release to me is better. This way they can shore up the code base and give themselves a chance to refactor the code. Right now they are just building up technical debt by releasing new feature after new feature and not shoring up the code base.

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I worked 25+ years in software development. Over 50 projects, many multi-million $$ projects.

1). Tying software updates rollouts to hardware release dates is a bad way to do it. I understand Apple and Apple fans loving the hype and fanfare but this absolutely precludes pushing back rollouts if major issues happen to be found. A better user experience resulting from a pushback of the rollout deadline should be paramount. Sometimes just a week can make all the difference.

2). Apple should think about doing more releases during the year. Implement just a few new things at a time. Any time you insert new code something old will break. The more code, the more breaks. And in-house testing can never find them all. It is entirely possible to implement every new feature Apple wants in a calendar year. But doing so all at once is just asking for major issues. Let your devs be more agile.

As I stated above I've worked on a lot of projects. Some very, very big rollouts. One lesson learned was that if we implemented more frequent, less complicated rollouts we were able to put out more stable software, our users were happier and we were less stressed (which lead to fewer bugs). Plus we could still put in all the features we wanted. But we didn't want nor care for secrecy.

Thank you for talking some sense into these people. There is a downside though in that more updates leads to more fragmentation in this particular use case.

 

[poe diddley]

I think all the bugs are valid but I mainly want them to fix Safari. In its current state it's a pile of hot steamy garbage. And it is the most commonly used piece of software in ios8 for the majority of users. I question some of the changes they made like moving bookmarks but I can get used to those. It's the bugs that (pardon the pun) bug me.