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iPad 2 Locked Status - Apple's Wording

JoeG4 said:
For one, you're paying full price, and for another both the GSM and CDMA models have the same radio.
Click to expand...
No they don't. EVDO and GSM/UMTS are entirely different radio systems, and for all we know the iPad (just like the iPhone 4) does not have a multi-standard radio.

I am still convinced that there won't be a SIM lock. It does not make sense, since there are no operator-subsidized iPads.
 
JoeG4 said:
This is ridiculous! For one, you're paying full price, and for another both the GSM and CDMA models have the same radio. Why aren't they just using a universal design that ignores the SIM card when set to use CDMA?

It seriously made me double head palm. :D
Click to expand...

uhhhh...no. they don't.

GSM Explained
GSM is a 'cellular' technology, that is, the entire coverage area is divided into various hexagonal shaped cells (hence the popular name 'cell phones'). Every cell has a corresponding network tower, which serves the mobile phones in that cellular area. For example: Imagine a honeycomb on a tree in a hexagonal shaped garden. The garden has many flowers. The honeybees collect the nectar from the flowers, and deposit it in the honeycomb. Your mobile phones are like the flowers, the network tower is like honeycomb, and the bees are the signals.

CDMA Explained
As the name suggests (Code Division Multiple Access), there are many devices which use the same spread spectrum (hence multiple access). There is one physical channel, and a special code for every device in the coverage network. Using this code, the signal of the device is multiplexed, and the same physical channel is used to send the signal (the codes may or may not change). For example: There is a street on which many buses ply. Obviously, the bus will have many commuters, and they will have to buy the tickets to travel on the bus. In CDMA, the commuter is like your mobile phone, the tickets are your codes, the bus is a multiplexed carrier signal, and the street is the spread spectrum.

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/gsm-vs-cdma.html
 
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/gsm-vs-cdma.html
Click to expand...
No offense, but the "comparison" from "buzzle.com" is quite nonsensical. "CDMA" in the context of Verizon refers to CDMA2000, which is a 3G standard competing with UMTS. Technically, both CDMA2000 and UMTS use forms of CDMA (which is one of several basic technical approaches allowing multiple stations to use a common radio channel), but nonetheless they are completely different standards with different channel formats, signaling protocols, core network architectures, frequencies etc.. They were developed by different standardization bodies (3GPP and 3GPP2). GSM is technically the 2G predecessor of UMTS (it uses TDMA instead of CDMA for multiple access).
 
yeah...i understand what you are saying. Maybe that was a bad reference, i just put something up real quick. The original point still stands. lol, you can't just use the same equipment for either gsm and cmda. it wouldn't be cost effective to put both systems in an iPad.

plus, I believe carriers of CDMA HAVE to provide the equipment to use CDMA subscription. so, since verizon is selling cdma service for the iPad, they have to sell the iPad too. imagine them selling an iPad that had both chip sets in it and everyone purchasing the iPad from them but using ATT
 
ClutchThese said:
yeah...i understand what you are saying. Maybe that was a bad reference, i just put something up real quick. The original point still stands. lol, you can't just use the same equipment for either gsm and cmda. it wouldn't be cost effective to put both systems in an iPad.
Click to expand...
Well, it is possible to build devices that can use both standards. There are some multi-standard phones that support both UMTS and CDMA2000 (e.g. the Motorola Droid 2 Global). In fact, the iPhone 4 (and probably the iPad 2) uses a multi-standard-capable chipset from Qualcomm. But there is more to it than just the chipset. I guess Apple didn't think it was worth the effort given the limited number of people who need such a device.
 
the contrast between the wording in in the Apple Canada website:

"The iPad model you purchase is specially configured to work with either Bell, Rogers, or Telus. So while you don’t have to activate 3G service right away, you should choose your iPad with Wi-Fi + 3G according to the carrier you prefer."

and the Apple UK , Australia and France:

"To enable 3G service on your iPad with Wi-Fi + 3G, you need a micro-SIM card and a data plan. A number of carriers offer no-contract data plans for iPad, and you can activate 3G service anytime after installing the micro-SIM card"

suggests the Ipad2 will be locked in the US/Canada and unlocked elsewhere.
 
I have no idea why they would not use the same chip that they put into the Verizon iPhone. Qualcomm MDM6600.
http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPhone-4-Verizon-Teardown/4693/3

Does both HSPA+ and CDMA2000.

http://www.qualcomm.com/news/releas...ls-new-roadmap-gobi-connectivity-technologies

But that would require them to have the sim slot avail on the CDMA version which they did take out on the iPhone for Verizon. And install antennas for both. But that does seem to make it easier on the supply chain when you cut out 6 models to make.
 
No No No No No :p

The chip in the VZW iPhone, for example, supports BOTH CDMA and GSM (in fact, it also supports AWS!)

I'm kinda surprised Apple didn't stick that chip in the iPad and just take the opportunity to customize their setup.
 
JoeG4 said:
No No No No No :p

The chip in the VZW iPhone, for example, supports BOTH CDMA and GSM (in fact, it also supports AWS!)

I'm kinda surprised Apple didn't stick that chip in the iPad and just take the opportunity to customize their setup.
Click to expand...

Nope.

Apple_-_iPhone_4_-_Size_weight_battery_life_and_other_specs.jpg
 
JoeG4 said:
No No No No No :p

The chip in the VZW iPhone, for example, supports BOTH CDMA and GSM (in fact, it also supports AWS!)

I'm kinda surprised Apple didn't stick that chip in the iPad and just take the opportunity to customize their setup.
Click to expand...

Even if they use the universal chip, they still have to have two sets of antennas. Maybe they didn't want the cost of engineering the CDMA antennas into the GSM model, seeing as they'll probably sell many more of the GSM models worldwide than they will of the CDMA model.
 
pistolero said:
the contrast between the wording in in the Apple Canada website:

"The iPad model you purchase is specially configured to work with either Bell, Rogers, or Telus. So while you don’t have to activate 3G service right away, you should choose your iPad with Wi-Fi + 3G according to the carrier you prefer."

and the Apple UK , Australia and France:

"To enable 3G service on your iPad with Wi-Fi + 3G, you need a micro-SIM card and a data plan. A number of carriers offer no-contract data plans for iPad, and you can activate 3G service anytime after installing the micro-SIM card"

suggests the Ipad2 will be locked in the US/Canada and unlocked elsewhere.
Click to expand...

It seems clear and very disappointing given that the iPhone 4 is offered factory unlocked in Canada. I can understand subsidized devices being locked but not full price devices being sold by Apple.

Surprised Engadget or another major tech site has not picked up on this apparent iPad policy change?
 
OSMac said:
Surprised Engadget or another major tech site has not picked up on this apparent iPad policy change?
Click to expand...

Usually big sites don't report on something until it's been confirmed by Apple, unless it's a huge scoop and would drive traffic. Reporting something like, "iPads now locked to carriers? (questionmark??)" is just not going to do anything but troll people. It won't help Apple respond any faster either. I mean just look at how this thread has turned out, all these replies and yet still nobody has a clue what Apple plans to do.

My best guess still stands that they aren't not changing their policy, they just want to avoid confusion when people go to buy a Verizon or AT&T iPad and ask if they can switch providers after purchase. It's a simple way to answer dumb consumers instead of something complex like "Technically the GSM iPad has a microSIM card slot and is unlocked which can then be used with any carrier." Which only causes them to think you can use it with Verizon.
 
In Apple's words on Canadian website...

Version 1
http://store.apple.com/ca/browse/home/shop_ipad/family/ipad?mco=OTY2ODA0NQ
"
Add a micro-SIM card from the carrier of your choice to your order and complete your purchase. You can also get a micro-SIM card later directly from a local carrier."

"Can I use my iPad while travelling outside the country?
You can connect to Wi-Fi networks in many places around the world. Check with your carrier about connecting to 3G networks outside your home country, as additional charges may apply. Or you can purchase a micro-SIM card from a carrier at your destination and choose a new data plan to connect to a 3G network there."


Version 2
http://www.apple.com/ca/ipad/3g/

"Choose your iPad by carrier.
If you decide on an iPad with Wi-Fi + 3G, be sure to select the model that corresponds with the carrier you’d like to use for 3G service. The iPad model you purchase is specially configured to work with either Bell, Rogers, or Telus. So while you don’t have to activate 3G service right away, you should choose your iPad with Wi-Fi + 3G according to the carrier you prefer.
"
 
Has it been confirmed that the US iPad 2's will be locked to their respective carriers? I was planning to buy one and take them back home to use in India. I would really appreciate if someone could clear this out for me. Thanks.
 
ovrlrd said:
the GSM iPad has a microSIM card slot
Click to expand...

Has anybody actually found a card slot on the iPad 2? I can't find any on the official pictures or any reference on the apple website. So if the sim cards are now "software" (instead of physically there -I'm no expert on these things :eek:), the option to lock a device to a carrier are much easier I presume.
Anyone with more knowledge on these things care to join in?
 
I'll give that it could be still unlocked in Canada, but Apple does not make that clear anymore on the iPad 2 section of the site, rather they reinforce you have choose based on a single carrier.

Needs to be clarified.
 
Dwee8le said:
Has anybody actually found a card slot on the iPad 2? I can't find any on the official pictures or any reference on the apple website. So if the sim cards are now "software" (instead of physically there -I'm no expert on these things :eek:), the option to lock a device to a carrier are much easier I presume.
Anyone with more knowledge on these things care to join in?
Click to expand...

Yes, there is a microSIM slot, but the reason it's hard to find is that it's really tiny and only on the GSM model which has barely been shown off (it was not at the hands on event for media after the announcement). I forget where I saw it, maybe in one of Apple's videos, but I am certain it is there.

It's also listed under Apple's iPad specs

Micro-SIM card tray (Wi-Fi + 3G model)
Click to expand...
 
I just posted the unlock question on Rogers Redboard (Canadian Carrier) for clarification. Two days ago, a Rogers person responded to my initial question and told me that I could use my SIM card from my iPad 1 in the iPad 2.

Will update if/when they reply.
 
OSMac said:
In Apple's words on Canadian website...

Version 1
http://store.apple.com/ca/browse/home/shop_ipad/family/ipad?mco=OTY2ODA0NQ
"
Add a micro-SIM card from the carrier of your choice to your order and complete your purchase. You can also get a micro-SIM card later directly from a local carrier."

"Can I use my iPad while travelling outside the country?
You can connect to Wi-Fi networks in many places around the world. Check with your carrier about connecting to 3G networks outside your home country, as additional charges may apply. Or you can purchase a micro-SIM card from a carrier at your destination and choose a new data plan to connect to a 3G network there."


Version 2
http://www.apple.com/ca/ipad/3g/

"Choose your iPad by carrier.
If you decide on an iPad with Wi-Fi + 3G, be sure to select the model that corresponds with the carrier you’d like to use for 3G service. The iPad model you purchase is specially configured to work with either Bell, Rogers, or Telus. So while you don’t have to activate 3G service right away, you should choose your iPad with Wi-Fi + 3G according to the carrier you prefer.
"
Click to expand...

After seeing this thread I went and checked the cdn site for exactly this last night. This worries me, the new wording really makes it sound like the iPad2 will be locked. I really don't understand why they'd do this though, they've been selling the iPad and iPhone unlocked in Canada.. and it seemed like the iPad was a big device that they pushed this new model of purchase from the manufacturer and later choose service/data from the carrier of your choice. Would be so weird for them to go back and lock it.

I guess we'll really have to wait and see.
 
...

If its locked I will be buying it and then returning it since they no longer have a restock fee
 
...

I think everyone should bombard steve jobs email about this until we get an answer
 
anjinha said:
Are all of those networks GSM though? Because if even one of them is CDMA it makes sense that it would say that, since CDMA and GSM aren't compatible. Same for the US.

In the UK Apple website for example, where all the networks are GSM, it simply says you can buy a micro-SIM from a carrier.
Click to expand...

Yes, all 3 Canadian carriers are GSM. And that is where the confusion starts.

As you point out the Euro countries do not have the "specifically configured" language that is on the Canadian site. The U.S. site is ambiguous b/c there is one GSM carrier and one CDMA. The only thing that is clear to me is that the Euro models direct from Apple, not carriers, are unlocked.

Until Apple issues a press release or statement specifically stating the U.S. GSM version is "unlocked" as Steve Jobs did when he announced the first iPad or a reviewer confirms by testing, I don't think anyone can assume the iPad2 is unlocked.
 
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