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iPad 2, Orange store UK

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Guys let's not turn this into a silly argument. Both of u have a very valid point.

Remember. Orange are the bad ba£&@£(s here thinking they can do what they like and treat their customers like this.

Shocking.
 
Yes I agree.

I really think Apple should be everyone's first point of call if they are in this situation.

Get a genius appointment and see if they will sort something out foryou in store. If you can't or that doesn't work then contact Apple by phone or email and see what they can do for you that way.
 
gavcur said:
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A glimmer of hope.......

I called orange Cust service again this evening and after department ping pong I got to speak to a very nice chap in iPhone support.

He agreed that yes indeed the iPad should be unlocked and I should be able to use any sim I wanted. He went away and confirmed this with his colleagues to double check. After a lot of head scratching he eventually decided to call apple directly to try and sort out.

He must have access to some high level tech support. I was eventually transferred to apple myself to sort out. Initially they said as I bought from orange I will be carrier locked etc etc however she checked with yet another dept in apple this time and I am correct I. What I am saying.

Upshot is they are taking the case on to investigate and hopefully resolve however it has not been yet.

Hopefully they will be able to unlock it?? We will soon see.

This still does not change the way orange have treated me and my complaint will still he persued. Fingers crossed that apple can unlock.

I had started going through the letter using most of it and twisting it to suit. I thought it was very good.

Will keep you updated with the latest development.
Click to expand...

Still no end in sight. Apperently my network profile with apple shows that it is Unlock locked??????? (whatever that means)

The senior technical advisor had never seen this before. They have escalated again to the engineers to try and sort out. Not overly hopeful now to be honest but I will see.


On speaking to orange there appears to be a numer of people in the same situation as me. It would be easy for them just to process the unlock and sort out now but they wont.

Let this be a lesson to you all. Never ever purchase anything from orange!!!
 
Gavcur you know I'm on your side with this situation, but I think it's a bit much to say "never buy anything from Orange"

Imagine (however unlikely) that Orange paid Apple to have an exclusive on the next iPhone!! Then we'd never get one. Lol

Also, as I said before if they had sold you the device at a subsidised price then having it locked would be feasible and justified. It's because you purchased it at an unsubsidised price that it should never have been locked, or that you should be able to easily get it unlocked.

As another poster did say, Apple may be your best bet here as they will not really be bothered which network you use it on, and it is in fact them that administer the unlock through iTunes anyway.

Beyond this outside issue with Orange, I hope you are enjoying your iPad :)

Keep us updated.
 
ParishYoung said:
Gavcur you know I'm on your side with this situation, but I think it's a bit much to say "never buy anything from Orange"

Imagine (however unlikely) that Orange paid Apple to have an exclusive on the next iPhone!! Then we'd never get one. Lol


Keep us updated.
Click to expand...

PMSL

Yes you never know. Stranger things have happened. It's just the way I feel about this bunch right now. Don't care a damn about customers just how much money they make. I should have known better as I was a customer 10 years ago and left due to poor Cust service back then.
 
Macs4u said:
Is this the same Orange UK that sold me an iPad that was supposed to be unlocked and when i got home the signal was crap and it was LOCKED. I was told they dont refund for bad signal , i was told they dont refund as i was told it was locked (total ********* , i made a point of asking and was assured it was as apple sell them , totally unlocked). I was also told that i cannot return it even though it was missold. I instead called Apple, they refunded me instead and told me they would investigate Orange.

I will Never, Never, Never Ever buy a single thing from Orange for as long as i live. Totally dont understand why they havent been closed down for lying to customers.

Matt
Click to expand...

Matt

What dept at apple did you speak to for refund?
 

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gavcur said:
PMSL

Yes you never know. Stranger things have happened. It's just the way I feel about this bunch right now. Don't care a damn about customers just how much money they make. I should have known better as I was a customer 10 years ago and left due to poor Cust service back then.
Click to expand...

Orange were brilliant when they first started up and I was a loyal customer for years. However, over time they got gradually worse and worse.
I left to join O2 when the first iPhone was released, and I'm pleased I got away when I did as they seem to be terrible now! O2 are far from perfect, but they've never pulled this sort of shady stuff
 
Why don't you head to an Apple store?

Make a genius appointment. Granted you may not live near one and you may not be able to guarantee that you will get a new iPad from them in store BUT if it is bothering you this much then it's worth a shot even if it's a couple of hours away.

They swapped my locked orange iPad for a new unlocked iPad in store.
 
spinstorm said:
Why don't you head to an Apple store?

Make a genius appointment. Granted you may not live near one and you may not be able to guarantee that you will get a new iPad from them in store BUT if it is bothering you this much then it's worth a shot even if it's a couple of hours away.

They swapped my locked orange iPad for a new unlocked iPad in store.
Click to expand...

This is going to be tomorrow's plan I think. Already tried calling and speaking with them and they said no but I will give it a bash going to the store. What's the worst that can happen??
 
Latest update from Apple's engineers is that my device IS unlocked however Orange have blocked it to all local carrier's Wight he exception of orang and tmobile. It will apparently work with all other gsm sims worldwide so is unlocked.

Sneaky sneaky!!!!

Unfortunately apple say they can't help as it is the carriers doing and they need to resolve it. Back to square one.

So all beware if Orange tell you the IPad 2 is unlocked......it is BLOCKED to all local carriers!!!!!!

Small claims court here I come.
 
I was in Apple for almost an hour. Initially the genius said there was nothing he could do. Even if he was able to swap my iPad it would just transfer the lock over but they had no stock of any kind, either replacement parts or new iPads.

Then I asked for the manager very politely and he told me that he was "going to try something"

He came back with a new iPad 2. I'm sure the genius told the manager how patient and calm and reasonable I had been and that helped.

Just be totally honest with them. Say you won't be refunded. That they lied to you. That apple on the phone couldn't help. And all you can do is go to small claims court which will take weeks if not months and in the meantime you have an iPad you cant use. Tell them honestly that they are the last hope of any solution and beg them to help you....

Maybe. Just maybe. They may magically make an iPad appear. But don't be angry if they don't. I doubt that this is a policy of Apple. I was just very lucky so it's a chance you take.
 
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spinstorm said:
I was in Apple for almost an hour. Initially the genius said there was nothing he could do. Even if he was able to swap my iPad it would just transfer the lock over but they had no stock of any kind, either replacement parts or new iPads.

Then I asked for the manager very politely and he told me that he was "going to try something"

He came back with a new iPad 2. I'm sure the genius told the manager how patient and calm and reasonable I had been and that helped.

Just be totally honest with them. Say you won't be refunded. That they lied to you. That apple on the phone couldn't help. And all you can do is go to small claims court which will take weeks if not months and in the meantime you have an iPad you cant use. Tell them honestly that they are the last hope of any solution and beg them to help you....

Maybe. Just maybe. They may magically make an iPad appear. But don't be angry if they don't. I doubt that this is a policy of Apple. I was just very lucky so it's a chance you take.
Click to expand...

Going to give it a bash and see how I go. Out of interest what apple store were you at. I will have to go to Glasgow or Aberdeen
 
I am right down on the south coast of England. So no where near you!

You have nothing to lose as it's worth a try...
 
Latest from Orange

Further to my email dated 29 March 2011, I write to confirm the following.

All your issues have been addressed in my last email. *I can not make comment
on a member of staff as you state 'lying' to you, as I was not present to be
able to make comment. *

There is no fraudulent activity on this account as you have confirmed that
you as the account holder where the person who was in store making the
purchase. *You state that Orange have breached the Sales of Goods Act, which
again we have not. *The iPad is fit for purpose and is a fully functional
device that you may use. *You have an Orange SIM Card which is in full
working order.

I apologise if you were not contacted by iPad Support Team as promised. *I
will *highlight this to the relevant department making them aware of the
impact of this incident, with the aim of continually improving our customer
experience.

The contact you have made with the Executive Office will not be forwarded to
the Retail store as you have reached the highest point of the escalation
process within Orange already. *You state that you may seek independent legal
advise, whilst I am sorry to hear this I also acknowledge it is your right to
do so.

Whilst I appreciate this response may not be entirely to your satisfaction, I
trust I have clarified our position on this matter.

Yours sincerely



Donna Wigglesworth
Executive Office
 
And my reply


Ms Wiggelsworth

You appear to missing my point entirely. Yes I have a working device but it does not work and function as described by the sales agent. This forms an integral part of the contract between I and orange under the sale of goods act. The device simply does not operate with other carriers and I was led to believe it would.

Orange have provided me with no documentation whatsoever stating that this device is blocked from using other networks. This is again something that should have been provided at point of sale. I have received no terms and conditions from Orange.*

You also misunderstand me seeking legal advice. I have done so and when I state "start legal proceedings" to be clear this means I will be commencing an action at the small claims court.*

I should stress I would like to be reasonable and resolve this matter without having to go to a small claims court. From what I understand of the small claims court the cost to Orange to defend such an action grossly out weighs what I am trying to do to resolve this matter.*

By far the easiest solution here is to remove the block that orange has put on my device at point of sale. My full price unsubsidised device was opened by your sales assistant and has effectively been tampered with by Orange at point of sale to prevent me from using it with other networks by using a restrictive activation profile. This was not what was agreed at point of agreeing my contract with the sales assistant.*

To be clear, as already advised, after 7 days from when your Orange store received a hard copy of my letter, I will be forced to start an action at the small claims court.*
 
same here...

Phil A. said:
Orange were brilliant when they first started up and I was a loyal customer for years. However, over time they got gradually worse and worse.
I left to join O2 when the first iPhone was released, and I'm pleased I got away when I did as they seem to be terrible now! O2 are far from perfect, but they've never pulled this sort of shady stuff
Click to expand...

Me too - was with Orange for about 12 years - almost from when they started and left for o2. I have found o2s support excellent - even their broadband is good value and always get through within a decent time to their support staff who are in the UK.

I dont work for o2 - they are far from perfection but Orange def went downhill a few years ago.

I think the thing that killed good customer service for the whole of the mobile phone population was the invention of Pay As You Go.
 
Wow just wow gavcur Orange seems to think that they are a law onto themselves and clearly does not understand the term fraud by failure to disclose information.

You have proof of Orange blocking local sims on a FULLY paid device my view is get that in a letter as Courts will not allow your word. Ask Apple for the said report of Orange placing a local sim block on your iPad. Give all documents to the Courts and they will look at it and decide that indeed Orange have broken contract and other laws.

Now the next part of your task is to call your local trading standards and make a formal complaint against Orange also ask if the OFT can look into it and report Orange to http://www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog/ as they are coming back in a weeks time and that would truly screw Orange up, and usually companies don't like getting the bad press and ofc having to talk to Annie.
 
And the latest reply form the saga



Further to my previous email, I write to confirm the following.

I assure you after reading your emails in quite some depth I have no
confusion relating to your issue. *The Sales Manager in Retail states that
you were not sold the iPad on the basis that it would work with your 3
network SIM Card. *

Terms and Conditions may be provided with the SIM Card at point of sale
however can also be found on wwww.orange.co.uk. *It is not possible to unlock
your iPad until it has been successfully registered on the Orange network for
three full months.

After three months you may then call to unlock the iPad. *Our iPad Support
Team would then charge you £20.42 and log the IMEI number for the iPad on the
Apple server ready for unlocking.

There is no evidence that suggests the iPad has been tampered with in any way
as you have stated. *There is also no evidence that the Sales Agent has
restricted your access to the iPad or activated the product using any
restrictive methods.

You have stated in your email that you are taking Orange to a Small Claims
Court in relation to this issue. *Again I am sorry to hear this however
acknowledge it is your right to do so.

Whilst I appreciate this response may not be entirely to your satisfaction, I
trust I have clarified our position on this matter.
 
GeekPill said:
Wow just wow gavcur Orange seems to think that they are a law onto themselves and clearly does not understand the term fraud by failure to disclose information.

You have proof of Orange blocking local sims on a FULLY paid device my view is get that in a letter as Courts will not allow your word. Ask Apple for the said report of Orange placing a local sim block on your iPad. Give all documents to the Courts and they will look at it and decide that indeed Orange have broken contract and other laws.

Now the next part of your task is to call your local trading standards and make a formal complaint against Orange also ask if the OFT can look into it and report Orange to http://www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog/ as they are coming back in a weeks time and that would truly screw Orange up, and usually companies don't like getting the bad press and ofc having to talk to Annie.
Click to expand...


I have asked for this from apple. Just waitin on a reply.
 
gavcur said:
And the latest reply form the saga



Further to my previous email, I write to confirm the following.

I assure you after reading your emails in quite some depth I have no
confusion relating to your issue. *The Sales Manager in Retail states that
you were not sold the iPad on the basis that it would work with your 3
network SIM Card. *

Terms and Conditions may be provided with the SIM Card at point of sale
however can also be found on wwww.orange.co.uk. *It is not possible to unlock
your iPad until it has been successfully registered on the Orange network for
three full months.

After three months you may then call to unlock the iPad. *Our iPad Support
Team would then charge you £20.42 and log the IMEI number for the iPad on the
Apple server ready for unlocking.

There is no evidence that suggests the iPad has been tampered with in any way
as you have stated. *There is also no evidence that the Sales Agent has
restricted your access to the iPad or activated the product using any
restrictive methods.

You have stated in your email that you are taking Orange to a Small Claims
Court in relation to this issue. *Again I am sorry to hear this however
acknowledge it is your right to do so.

Whilst I appreciate this response may not be entirely to your satisfaction, I
trust I have clarified our position on this matter.
Click to expand...

She seems to be set to stupid. How does she not know that a paid outright device can not be locked to a network it has be be unlocked and I would try to re explain with pictures to her that if the Sales member opened it up and activated instore to put a block on all local sims apart from Orange then its clearly IS tampering.

Well you can be high up in a company and yet be stupid as anything.

As soon as Apple comes back to you with that document tell Orange you have it and the Courts will side with you are the Sales of Goods Act over-rides any and all Terms and Cons.
 
GeekPill said:
She seems to be set to stupid. How does she not know that a paid outright device can not be locked to a network it has be be unlocked and I would try to re explain with pictures to her that if the Sales member opened it up and activated instore to put a block on all local sims apart from Orange then its clearly IS tampering.

Well you can be high up in a company and yet be stupid as anything.

As soon as Apple comes back to you with that document tell Orange you have it and the Courts will side with you are the Sales of Goods Act over-rides any and all Terms and Cons.
Click to expand...

The issues as apple explain it is their resellers can pretty mug do what they like. They can set their on terms and conditions of use and there is nothing apple can do about it. They don't care how it is used. Resellers can sell the product for what they like but are given a rrp. In this case orange have chosen to sell at full rrp and block access to other local carriers. Suppose I can kind of agree that a carrier does his but the customer MUST be informed about the devices restricted use.

The key in my case it what has been said to me in the store and what reality is. The retail manager is basically callig me a lier backing their sales assistant. It would not take them much to sort out as they already have the profit from the full price sale of the device. But they really done understand customer service. The exec really is set to stupid. I'm sure if the CEO really knew what was happening then he may have a different view. Apparently he knows but me thinks not!!
 
Head of Customer Experience

Found Jacqueline Starr, Head of customer experience, service & loyalty @ Orange. Sent her a note via linkedin to warn her of the up and coming social onslaught that they will be getting. Be interesting to see what she comes back with. I have bought my iPad 2 on eBay from someone who got it from Orange... so my line of recourse is somewhat muddy!!!
 
Shaun.sheff said:
http://www.reghardware.com/2011/03/30/apple_ipad_2_sim_lock/

interesting how this can happen and when it does orange just doesn't back down. They are getting so much grief why not just accept that they got it wrong.
Click to expand...

Hold up! Only Vodafone UK are selling the 64Gb 3G iPad 2, so how has Orange managed to lock the one mentioned in this article??

@Gavcur - post the Wigglesworth email address on here and we'll bombared her with emails until she gives in ;-)

Or try emailing Tom again. He'll wonder why she hasn't sorted it sooner, and he'll be like "dude, it's less than £600 and not worth our time. Give the guy a refund" LOL

(or at least that should be his attitude)
 
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