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iPad 3 upscaled apps look poor?
- Thread starter planktonamor
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Senseotech
macrumors 6502a
Ok, this has gotten ridiculous. Apparently the most basic of concepts are lost on half of you. Taking an image that is meant for a specific physical size at a specific pixel density and then effectively making that image fit the same physical size with more pixel density WILL result in image degradation. If you can't figure that out, then you're ultimately the one who is losing out.
Tinmania
macrumors 68040
You do realize your assertion has no basis in logic, right?
Same image at the same size, same dimensions. But to you they look different? Uh.... ok. lol
I already compared 3GS to iPhone 4 and there was NO difference. The only difference was a retina app on the 4 compared to a non retina app on the 4 OR 3GS. It's the exact same situation with the iPad 3 Vs iPad 2/1.
Michael
Tinmania
macrumors 68040
I would hate to introduce you to sub-pixels else you would think your current display suddenly "got blurry."
Michael
Thanks for adding the image, I've cropped it to make the comparison easier. To me this describes what I was talking about, that the icon looks better on the non retina display. In reality you don't get the "grid/screen door pattern" when looking at the non retina display, this only appears in photos.
Even if you do not agree that the icon looks worse, it is clear that they do not look exactly the same as people are stating they will, things are not that simple.
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Great make a foto (not ss) of non retina icons on ipad touch an retina display a post here. Thank you.
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See photo posted by samac.
No, it won't. You're right that it is basic, you're just wrong.
An image that is exactly doubled in pixel count just uses 2x2 pixels in place of 1x1 (or 4x4, or whatever you so desire). The only physical change is that the smaller pixel pitch removes the screen door effect, which to my eye is better but apparently you disagree.
There is no degradation. It's maths. The image doesn't care what the physical display has. It only specifies a grid of dots. If each dot in the image corresponds to one dot on the display, that's fine. If it corresponds to four dots, that's the same thing to the image. You get the same image, at the same physical size, on the same dpi, regardless of underlying ppi.
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They do. Each block of the icon on the right is the same size as the icon on the right. Exactly identical, dot for dot, regardless of the pixels underneath. There is no "image degradation" whatsoever.
The screen door effect is most definitely visible in person, and I personally think it's far worse than the resolution itself.
People have been claiming that the retina display makes the icons "blurrier" or "worse" and that's a load of crap. The icon has the same information at the same size.
If you prefer the dimmer, fuzzier image owing to the larger pixel pitch, that's certainly your right, but it's not supported by the objective facts.
Yes, the right one looks less jagged, I have again cropped it some more for comparison. The iPhone 4 on the left has a jagged line, while the one on the right does not.
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TheWheelMan
macrumors 6502a
As a graphic designer, and someone who actually has a clue as to how images work (as seemingly a few here clearly do not), I can tell you that even wallpaper sized for the non-retina iPad displays should look fine, if not razor sharp, on the new iPad unless the images were pretty low quality to begin with. Merely doubling the size of a good quality image won't affect the visual quality that much unless you're practically pressing your nose against the screen. I expect the same to be true for most apps. Things designed for the Retina Display will of course look better, but that in no way means that the older apps will suddenly look horrible.
They're THE SAME. Every jagged step on the left is present in the right. The retina display is not adding or removing anything to the image. Your brain is just filling in missing information blocked out by the black spacing between the pixels.
If you're claiming you can't see the SDE, then you can't see the jagged edges, either, because they occupy the same space. If the original iPhone had the same 480x320 resolution, but the lower pixel pitch of the iPhone 4, your brain wouldn't be able to fake you out like that.
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polbit
macrumors 6502a
This tread really has me doubting the future of humanity when simple logical concepts become incomprehensible to so many people. If you take a single point of the old screen (pixel), and make it the exact same physical size but made up of 4 new points, it will look exactly the same.
Let's say the iPad 2 pixel size is 2 mm. So a 1 x 1 pixel on old screen has the area of 2 x 2 = 4 mm. On the new screen, one pixel is 1 mm, so when you double that, it is still 2 mm. That means that the 4 pixels now make up the area of the old pixel ( (1 x 1) + (1 x 1) + (1 x 1) + (1 x 1) = 4 mm). SAME SIZE, SAME EFFECTIVE RESOLUTION AS OLD SCREEN.
The ONLY difference comes down to the actual displays - pixel spacing, brightness, contrast, etc.
Let's say the iPad 2 pixel size is 2 mm. So a 1 x 1 pixel on old screen has the area of 2 x 2 = 4 mm. On the new screen, one pixel is 1 mm, so when you double that, it is still 2 mm. That means that the 4 pixels now make up the area of the old pixel ( (1 x 1) + (1 x 1) + (1 x 1) + (1 x 1) = 4 mm). SAME SIZE, SAME EFFECTIVE RESOLUTION AS OLD SCREEN.
The ONLY difference comes down to the actual displays - pixel spacing, brightness, contrast, etc.
TheWheelMan
macrumors 6502a
The difference in color and therefore contrast automatically disqualifies that as a reasonable example. The lack of color contrast on the right helps hide the jagged edges that the white makes undeniably clear on the left.
There's RetinaPad for jailbroken devices right? (I've never used it)
It can make iPhone apps look better on iPad. How does it work? And why can't Apple implement something like that?
It can make iPhone apps look better on iPad. How does it work? And why can't Apple implement something like that?
It doesn't matter if the effect is the brain or the hardware or what, I wasn't arguing about what caused the effect, just that the effect was there.
I'm not the only one sees the effect, as per the link someone posted earlier:
He agrees that the retina display makes the lower resolution more obvious. That quote is from Louie Mantia btw, who worked at Apple and designed the current iTunes icon.
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Tinmania
macrumors 68040
You are seriously coming to that conclusion based on a rather poor photograph? Wow.
I don't understand how someone can on one hand demand retina apps but on the other hand prefer blurrier versions of non retina apps.
Michael
No, I came to the conclusion because I have seen the effect with my own eyes.
See the quote above from Louie Mantia.
samac, you're the only one here who has a clue what you're talking about. Its quite clear that a non-retina icon looks better on the non-retina display than it does on a retina display. This was immediately obvious to me when I upgraded from my iPhone 3G to iPhone 4.
The fact that the pixel pitch is so much smaller on a retina display, really makes the jaggies MUCH more apparent. Some people just don't get it, and that's fine. I know you're right, and so do you. 😉
That isn't the case, though. You said: "Result? the app icon on the retina display looks far worse than on the non retina display, despite it being the exact same 57x57 icon display at exactly the same dimensions. Try it and you will see." That's not true. It doesn't look far worse. It looks appreciably the same.
I have no quarrel with your subjective preference for the big, masking grid of the old display, but you presented it as a foregone conclusion that there was some sort of universal backwards step. There isn't, and no objective evidence agrees with you.
The main issue is with other posters claiming that it has something to do with scaling or resolution or the artwork itself, and it doesn't. It has to do with the pixel pitch of the old display working with color and contrast. The images are drawn with perfect fidelity on both displays.
That is a far cry from "the retina display will make current apps worse on the new iPad", which is not at all what he is saying. He is saying that the contrast between properly optimized retina graphics and pixel-doubled artwork is more pronounced because the lower resolution graphics could previously hide behind a crappier display panel. A display with a tighter pixel pitch, regardless of native resolution, would have the same results, having nothing to do with the artwork or its rendering on any device.
The iPhone 3GS apps look "worst" on a retina display because everything else looks better. The text and iOS UI elements are automatically upgraded, so you end up with an app where some parts are retina and others aren't -- it creates a jarring and ugly effect.