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This is still part of the DMA. Apple restricts how 3rd party devices can integrate within their platform. The DMA requires they allow 3rd party devices to have the same freedom that they give their own accessories like Apple Watch, Apple Pencil etc,
I don't see why that is a problem either. 3rd party PlayStation controllers work just as well the official ones.
 
You would leave the European market and leave behind 25 percent (or more) of your annual sales? Good thing someone like Tim Cook, who is not known to make rash impulsive decisions, is still in charge.

Europe brought in $101.328 Billion in sales for Apple's fiscal year 2024. That's 25.9 percent of total revenue.

That figure is for "Europe," which includes many countries that aren't in the EU, including the UK, which certainly accounts for a significant portion of that total (also Switzerland, Norway, Russia, Turkey, all of the Middle East, and parts of Africa). Most likely the EU accounts for about half that, or 13% (max) of Apple's total revenue.

Considering DMA fines could reach as high as 20% of Apple's global sales, it could absolutely be justified for Apple to pull out of the bloc.
 
Which is why the dma is lousy legislation. Say goodbye to vertical integration. Want vertical and horizontal integration…android delivers.
If you could only use the Magic Mouse with Apple products I am sure there would be many, many people in uproar.

3rd party accessories that work with as many features as official ones are not the work of the devil.
 
If you could only use the Magic Mouse with Apple products I am sure there would be many, many people in uproar.

3rd party accessories that work with as many features as official ones are not the work of the devil.

Except if Apple is prohibited from differentiating their products on features, what's their incentive to continue developing those features?
 
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Tim probably will cave like he did on usb c, but I'm pretty sure the EU needs to make room for experimentation and innovation. If everyone is forced onto a standard, how can you deviate from it?

FYI I've not read the laws, so dunno what exactly could happen.

By 'cave' you mean abiding by law as set out or face an import and sales ban across Europe set by the EU administration. And lose literally billions in profit that they'll have to explain to the share holders.. oh and receive a substantial fine from the EU too for none compliance.
 
I was referring to complete projects like the iPhone. They can build parts. The companies do not last, get purchased.
Some of them may also be Patent trolls, it isn't just a US problem.

Some of the purchasing has to do with financials of licensing essential patents for future products and such. In many cases large entities are forced, or incentivized to purchase entire companies to have access to a patent they want or need.

EU companies also buy smaller entities to build patent profiles. ARM has a storied history of doing this, and we are seeing EU automakers buying smaller tech companies to support electrification, or in-car electronics efforts.
 
I find this an odd one, because Apples device integration comes down to hardware just as much as software.. are the EU implying Apple should work with all their third parties to dictate the design of their products so they integrate better with them?
 
And users complain about not getting things from Apple. Maybe they should complain to their EU whackos.
 
so ****ing stupid. holy ****. I wonder why Apple Pencil and AirPods would work so well with iPad…MAYBE BECAUSE THEY’RE MADE BY THE SAME COMPANY?

the EU almost makes me feel like my own (USA) government isn’t a goddamn circus
The Magic Mouse says hello.

The EU are making sure that platforms have an open market for hardware and software sales. This has been the basis for free-market capitalism for over a century. The prior EEC standardised things like GSM and SCART to ensure easier trade between countries and less competing standards. Anybody want to go back to serial ports?

In Apple's case they leverage their position as first party to give their own products features 3rd parties cannot access without reverse engineering. The world we live in was built on open standards. Any PS5 controller works with any PS5. Any HDMI output can work with any display. Any bluetooth headphones work with any bluetooth device.

Competition for customers drives up the quality of products and drives down the cost. I don't get why some Apple fans are seemingly against pro-consumer intervention on behalf of democratically elected governments to make sure all companies play by the same rules. Or lets put it another way: that lack of innovation everybody moans at Apple for having isn't down to a lack of imagination: its down to a lack of competition.

Monopolies breed stagnation. Without it Apple risks becoming the next Intel when something better captures the public mindshare.
 
Except if Apple is prohibited from differentiating their products on features, what's their incentive to continue developing those features?
Its not that Apple cannot differentiate: its that others cannot.
 
You would leave the European market and leave behind 25 percent (or more) of your annual sales? Good thing someone like Tim Cook, who is not known to make rash impulsive decisions, is still in charge.

Europe brought in $101.328 Billion in sales for Apple's fiscal year 2024. That's 25.9 percent of total revenue.

I don't see Apple leaving the EU either. Though I would not be surprised if additional new products or services simply are not offered there due regulatory concerns.
 
Yes, losing 25% of their global revenue.
That makes a lot of sense.


The EU is not Europe.

I wish that they divided down the statistics to show EU only.

I'm sure the percentage is high but it's most likely not even close to 25%.
 
Its not that Apple cannot differentiate: its that others cannot.

What the EC seems to be proposing is that Apple cannot take advantage of their product integration to offer compelling features, e.g. quick pairing of AirPods and iCloud syncing. If that happens, Apple has no incentive to spend time and money developing features that their competitors can immediately capitalize on and integrate. As it stands, Apple typically does allow third parties to implement their proprietary features after a few years, e.g. iOS 18's support for quick pairing third-party BT accessories.
 
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You know, I would just leave the market and tell the EU to piss off. The folks can inport the devices they want without all the toddler's nonsense.
I've been saying this ever since the USB-C mandate came down and posting on this site about it. The camel's nose got under the tent and now it's almost all the way in.
 
You would leave the European market and leave behind 25 percent (or more) of your annual sales? Good thing someone like Tim Cook, who is not known to make rash impulsive decisions, is still in charge.

Europe brought in $101.328 Billion in sales for Apple's fiscal year 2024. That's 25.9 percent of total revenue.
If apple left the EU, which it should do, apple wouldn't lose any sales. People would buy elsewhere and bring apple devices in. An entire black market and / or personal carrier service industry would spring up overnight. In regards to services, VPN usage would skyrocket. The old adage, where there's demand, supply will be met, comes to mind.
 
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Which is why the dma is lousy legislation. Say goodbye to vertical integration. Want vertical and horizontal integration…android delivers.
They are not stopping Apple from vertically integrating their own devices and accessories. They are asking Apple to allow 3rd party devices the same privileges they give their own accessories.

Apple ecosystem experience stays the same.

3rd party ecosystem integration gets better.

Buy Android is a silly argument. I want an iPad but also shouldn't have to buy Apple Pencil to have tightly integrated features that a similar $20 pencil can give if Apple allows that level of integration.
 
I don't see why that is a problem either. 3rd party PlayStation controllers work just as well the official ones.
It's about the Apple watches, Apple Pencils etc. Those have a certain level of integration Apple does not allow 3rd party devices to have.
 
Tim probably will cave like he did on usb c, but I'm pretty sure the EU needs to make room for experimentation and innovation. If everyone is forced onto a standard, how can you deviate from it?
You're exactly right. Innovation will die and stagnation will set in. Guaranteed.
 
The Magic Mouse says hello.

The EU are making sure that platforms have an open market for hardware and software sales. This has been the basis for free-market capitalism for over a century. The prior EEC standardised things like GSM and SCART to ensure easier trade between countries and less competing standards. Anybody want to go back to serial ports?

In Apple's case they leverage their position as first party to give their own products features 3rd parties cannot access without reverse engineering. The world we live in was built on open standards. Any PS5 controller works with any PS5. Any HDMI output can work with any display. Any bluetooth headphones work with any bluetooth device.

Competition for customers drives up the quality of products and drives down the cost. I don't get why some Apple fans are seemingly against pro-consumer intervention on behalf of democratically elected governments to make sure all companies play by the same rules. Or lets put it another way: that lack of innovation everybody moans at Apple for having isn't down to a lack of imagination: its down to a lack of competition.

Monopolies breed stagnation. Without it Apple risks becoming the next Intel when something better captures the public mindshare.

No you cannot make everything open unless EU passed law to no longer protect patents and companies cannot have business secrets and technologies must be open source.

The problem is always where to draw this line and "what" for competition. And what EU has done on this has gone way too much.

There is no argue that the App store is monopoly because that is the only official way to install apps, but the accessory is a whole different story. Apple does not prevent you to pair third party Bluetooth headphones, nor blocks random USB accessories like they used to on iPhones. They even provided driverkit port to iPadOS so accessory vendors can even write user space drivers for the USB/Thunderbolt accessories. Apple is not blocking third party accessories like they did with App Store here.

And the argument about making some helper functions so that first party accessories looks better kills competition also looks funny to me. I have seen people buying AirPods to be used with Android phones because its great ANC capabilities, yet Android software works like s**t with AirPods that you cannot even change the mode change behavior on Android phones. Should Android provide software updates so that AirPods works as good as on the iPhones as well because "Android is gatekeeping to make AirPods works bad on their phones"?

Also, I have to point out that the most competitive 3rd party accessories on amazon is probably form random Chinese company and not from EU accessory vendors. They sell accessories at a fraction of the price of Apple's own ones and nobody would mind it does not support fancy UI windows on paring. Does this count as competition and "drives down the cost" to you?

The only thing I see here is that the EU failed to become competitive and they don't allow others to be more competitive.
 
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No one is saying Apple is planning to pull out of the EU. I'm just addressing the people who think Apple should leave the EU.


Do you have a source for the claim that the EU only makes up "around 10% of Apple's global revenue?" I've seen quite a few people make a similar claim (such as John Gruber) but they're misinterpretting statements made by CFO Maestri during Apple's Q1 2024 earnings call, confusing the EU's App Store revenue with the EU's total revenue. They're not the same thing. And when someone points it out, they're like "...it doesn’t matter." Yes, it matters.

But even if EU revenue is around 10% of total revenue, that's still around $40 billion a year. Not an insignificant amount. That's more than annual revenue from Japan ($25.052 billion) or Rest of Asia Pacific ($30.658 billion) regions.

I don't have a source, but I have been asking for months why the percentage of App Store revenue be any different than the percentage of iPhone revenue in the EU and no one has given me an answer. Why on earth would percentage of App Store revenue be meaningfully different? Seems like if the EU makes up 7% of App Store revenue they'd also make up around 7% of iPhone revenue, but I'd honestly appreciate a reason why that is a bad assumption. The best answer I've gotten so far is "EU users probably buy fewer Apps than American users" but no citation when I asked.

As another point in favor it for being significantly lower than the 22% of "Europe", we know Apple's two largest revenue drivers in the "Europe" segment are outside of the EU (UK and India). Germany and France are next.

We can also do some math based on 2023 iPhone revenue:
Apple made roughly $200 billion worth of revenue from iPhone in 2023. Apple doesn't break out iPhone sales by region, but I've seen an estimate of ~$40 billion thrown out repeatedly. However, let's just assume that it's the same 22% of global revenue that the "Europe" market segment makes up. 22% of $200 billion is $44 billion.
  • Apple is estimated to have made ~$10 billion (5%) of iPhone revenue in the UK (estimate of 8.4 million iPhones sold in UK, assuming average price of £899/$1150) and $5 billion (2.5%) in India (note the India number is conservative, per the article linked above, India accounted for 4% of iPhone revenue in Q2 2023). So right there the rest of the European market segment is down to $29 billion, or 14.5% of global iPhone revenue.
  • The Middle East is estimated to account for around $5.6 billion (~3%) of iPhone revenue (5.6 million phones, assuming $999 average price). My link there says it does not include Turkey, and I'm unclear if it includes Israel, but for "being conservative" purposes we'll count both Turkey and Israel in the $5.6 billion. So now the European Market segment is down to $23.4 billion, or a little under 12% of global iPhone revenue.
  • Now let's factor in Africa and non-EU countries not previously accounted for - harder to estimate here, as there aren't clear figures I can find. So I'll give them ALL to the EU.
So even with me spotting the EU $4 billion at the top of calculation, then giving the EU all non-UK European revenue, and all African revenue, and assuming Turkey and Israel are in the Middle East and not counted separately, we've got the EU with 12% of global iPhone revenue. If I use the $40 billion estimate I've seen cited, then the EU comes in right at 9.7% of global iPhone revenue and that is giving the EU all non-UK European revenue and all African revenue. Maybe some of my estimates are off, but even if I'm too low by 50%, the EU is swinging way above its weight when we look at the fines of 10/20% of Global revenue.

Again, Apple isn't going to pull out of the EU unless the EU does something very stupid like mandating encryption backdoors, and even then I don't know that they do.
 
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Personally I don't care so much for the pencil integration since I don't use it much if at all. One area where I would appreciate it if third-party vendors had better ways to integrate with iOS though are headphones. Not everyone is happy with what Apple has to offer, and I don't see a reason why third party headphone should not be able to work the same way as Apple's do.
 
No it means European companies create techs that are in the iPhone and other Apple devices. The Apple processors won't be possible without tech created by Europeans.
Probably -not definitely- a small part of the tech a company develops or holds patents to on some regions, or something very similar, is there. But these companies are bought worldwide, not only in the EU because of their IPs portfolio, precisely to avoid regional legal patent battles.
 
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