iPad Air 2 or iPad Pro 9.7 inch?

[coreas692]

I like to keep in mind that the pro will likely maintain more of its resale value than the air 2 since it's a generation newer. Using Amazon trade in values as a reference, it's about a $100 difference per generation. So if you sell/trade in your old iPads when you upgrade, like I do, then you will likely see most of the increased purchase price returned to you on the backend.

Hello there.

Honestly hadn't thought of the resell value, since this is my first iPad, and the iPhone I have is only the second I have owned, and even prior to that I had owned only a few iPod touches.

With the iTouches they either ended up broken for extended use for one reason or another and then there was the one that got stolen. Good thing they were all second hand ones.

The second hand 3GS I owned before the 6 I have now, its display kinda just "went dead" (the backlight broke spontaneously) so, I never really had the chance to "resell" one of my products.

The 6 I currently have was indeed purchased new out of the box so maybe in a year or two when I decide to sell it, it will be (hopefully) still functional.

My point (after sharing TMI) was that I never really had to think about that before. So. Hey. Will keep it in mind.

 

[rui no onna]

Hey I hear the iPad 3 was really struggling since it had a Retina Display and the same processor as the iPad 2. Were you on iOS 9? Is so, how well was it handling it?

The iPad 3 had 4x the number of pixels as the iPad 2 but only had 2x RAM, 2x GPU performance and 1x CPU performance. Needless to say, it didn't fare well with the passage of time. Even on iOS 5, it's already noticeable that the iPad 2 was a bit snappier compared to the iPad 3. That being said, around that time, longevity is the exception rather than the rule. There were massive leaps and bounds in performance. Think of that time as when we were moving from 386s to 486s to the various Pentiums/Athlons. More recently, while GPU performance has been increasing exponentially, CPU (while still seeing a steady increase in performance) is at the level where it's good enough for basic tasks. I reckon we reached that starting with the Apple A6/A6X.

I also have an iPad 3 and performance was pretty awful on iOS 7 and 8. Mind, it was already pretty laggy on iOS 6. iOS 7 and 8 just made things so much worse. iOS 9.3 improved performance a lot. I'm actually currently typing this post on an iPad 3. However, using Intel for analogy, iPad 3 is very much equivalent to Atom while iPad 4 and newer would be various generations of the i3.

I like to keep in mind that the pro will likely maintain more of its resale value than the air 2 since it's a generation newer. Using Amazon trade in values as a reference, it's about a $100 difference per generation. So if you sell/trade in your old iPads when you upgrade, like I do, then you will likely see most of the increased purchase price returned to you on the backend.

Much like cars, the biggest drop in trade-in value is the initial one. After that, the $100 for an extra year of use isn't so bad. Another thing, just as an example, currently the 128GB LTE iPP 9.7" is $879 while Apple certified refurb 128GB LTE Air 2 is $599. Even if you could get $100 extra on resale for the iPP, that's not gonna make up for the $280 difference in purchase price.

Buy the device you need at a price that's reasonable to you now. By the time the future comes around, there's no guarantee that even the more expensive device will have or be able to handle all features of the new iOS version well.

 

[coreas692]

The iPad 3 had 4x the number of pixels as the iPad 2 but only had 2x RAM, 2x GPU performance and 1x CPU performance. Needless to say, it didn't fare well with the passage of time. Even on iOS 5, it's already noticeable that the iPad 2 was a bit snappier compared to the iPad 3. That being said, around that time, longevity is the exception rather than the rule. There were massive leaps and bounds in performance. Think of that time as when we were moving from 386s to 486s to the various Pentiums/Athlons. More recently, while GPU performance has been increasing exponentially, CPU (while still seeing a steady increase in performance) is at the level where it's good enough for basic tasks. I reckon we reached that starting with the Apple A6/A6X.

I also have an iPad 3 and performance was pretty awful on iOS 7 and 8. Mind, it was already pretty laggy on iOS 6. iOS 7 and 8 just made things so much worse. iOS 9.3 improved performance a lot. I'm actually currently typing this post on an iPad 3. However, using Intel for analogy, iPad 3 is very much equivalent to Atom while iPad 4 and newer would be various generations of the i3.

Sad to say that even if I think I have a moderate knowledge of computers, most of your analogies about processors on PC/Laptops were kinda lost on me hehe.

Although I did get the idea haha.

I hear what you're saying. Yeah. It's quite different back then to what we have now (and I think we can safely say that iPad 3 was a major flop from Apple's part and we could also disregard it altogether when looking at Apple's devices and their longevity).

As I see it we have almost "reached a barrier" with CPU performance, just like you say, this being proven by how little the difference between one Chip's benchmark to the next is getting as years pass.

 

[Sparky2012]

As I see it we have almost "reached a barrier" with CPU performance, just like you say, this being proven by how little the difference between one Chip's benchmark to the next is getting as years pass.

I agree but currently Apple are/have only used Single Core and Dual Core processors (excluding the A8X) so we can still get quite a jump in performance if/when they eventually go to either a proper Tri Core or Quad Core.

 

[nj-morris]

I'm thinking that with iOS 10/X, there will be some special desktop capabilities for the iPad Pro. If that is important to you, I would wait.

 

[coreas692]

I agree but currently Apple are/have only used Single Core and Dual Core processors (excluding the A8X) so we can still get quite a jump in performance if/when they eventually go to either a proper Tri Core or Quad Core.

I agree. Tho. Given how slow Apple is going when upgrading COU power, I think Quad or even more cores is still way, way down the line. .

 

[parajba]

I'm thinking that with iOS 10/X, there will be some special desktop capabilities for the iPad Pro. If that is important to you, I would wait.

I couldn't agree more, and I would be happy to pay if the 9.7 pro would warrant it. But I doubt that 2GB would cut it in 2 years from now for 'desktop capabilities'... Yes, the 12.9 will probably be OK, not spectacularly fast (in 2 years from now), but the 9.7? The RAM could well be a limiting factor.

I repeat myself (from other threads)...I would be happy to pay for a Pro gadget, but only if it has some pro features...(!).

 

[coreas692]

I'm thinking that with iOS 10/X, there will be some special desktop capabilities for the iPad Pro. If that is important to you, I would wait.

Hello, could you please elaborate a little?

As I stated earlier, the 9.7 inch Pro and the Air 2 are very similar when it comes to CPU performance on paper (yeah GPU is a different story) but they both have the same amount of RAM.

I'm curios as to what Apple could come up with that the Air 2 couldn't and the Pro could do. Based only on their overall performance and not on their other obvious differences (support for pencil and keyboard, True Tone Display, etc...)

 

[nj-morris]

Hello, could you please elaborate a little?

As I stated earlier, the 9.7 inch Pro and the Air 2 are very similar when it comes to CPU performance on paper (yeah GPU is a different story) but they both have the same amount of RAM.

I'm curios as to what Apple could come up with that the Air 2 couldn't and the Pro could do. Based only on their overall performance and not on their other obvious differences (support for pencil and keyboard, True Tone Display, etc...)

It's just one of my theories, but I was thinking that Apple.would release an API for desktop apps like Photoshop or Final Cut. It really comes down to what Apple decide to do, but there's a chance.

 

[coreas692]

It's just one of my theories, but I was thinking that Apple.would release an API for desktop apps like Photoshop or Final Cut. It really comes down to what Apple decide to do, but there's a chance.

I hear ya. I guess specially now that they're campaign seems to be "ditch that laptop and only use your iPad gosh dang it"

 

[rui no onna]

I agree but currently Apple are/have only used Single Core and Dual Core processors (excluding the A8X) so we can still get quite a jump in performance if/when they eventually go to either a proper Tri Core or Quad Core.

For benchmarks, gaming, video and photo editing, sure. Watching Netflix? Not really. For something like H.265 4K playback, it'll be hardware decode acceleration that'll do it meaning new silicon (ergo new iPad) and not CPU grunt. Also, not all tasks can be made multi-threaded. Quite a number of times, a program might be stuck waiting for one thread to finish before it can continue whatever it is that needs to be done.

Multitasking, we really do need more RAM. However, this is Apple. I expect by the time they give us 4GB on 9.7" devices, 8GB should already be minimum.

I think AnandTech has a pretty interesting take on multi-cores on the iPad.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9766/the-apple-ipad-pro-review/2

Looking at the specifications of the A9X, it seems like Apple always throws us a curveball on the X series SoCs, and for their latest SoC this is no different. With A8X Apple delivered more RAM on a wider memory bus, a larger GPU, and surprisingly, three Typhoon CPU cores. To date it’s still not clear just why Apple went with three CPU cores on A8X – was it for multitasking, or as an alternative means to boost performance – and A9X’s configuration only serves to highlight this enigma.

Instead of continuing with a triple-core CPU design for A9X, for their latest X series SoC Apple has dropped back down to just a pair of Twister CPU cores. The catch here – and why two cores is in many ways better than three – is that relative to A8X and A9, Apple has cranked up their CPU clockspeeds. Way, way up. Whereas the iPad Air 2 (A8X) shipped at 1.5GHz and the iPhone 6s (A9) at 1.85GHz, the A9X sees Apple push their clockspeed to 2.26GHz. Not counting the architectural changes, this is 22% higher clocked than the A9 and 51% higher than the A8X.

The fact that Apple dropped back down to 2 CPU cores is unexpected given that we don’t expect Apple to ever go backwards in such a fashion, and while we’ll never know the official reason for everything Apple does, in retrospect I’m starting to think that A8X was an anomaly and Apple didn’t really want a tri-core CPU in the first place. A8X came at a time where Apple was bound by TSMC’s 20nm process and couldn’t drive up their clockspeeds without vastly increasing power consumption, so a third core was a far more power effective option.

Overall this means that iPad Pro and A9X will set a very high bar for tablet CPU performance. As we’ve already seen in the iPhone 6s review, the Twister CPU core is very potent and in most cases faster than any other ARM CPU core by leaps and bounds. Cranking up the clockspeed a further 22% only serves to open up that gap even further, as Twister is now reaching clockspeeds similar to the likes of Cortex-A57 and A72, but with its much wider execution pipeline and greater IPC. This is also the reason that an Intel Core CPU comparison is so interesting, as Intel’s tablet-class Core processors in many ways are the target to beat on overall CPU performance, and we’ll be touching upon this subject in greater detail a bit later.

 

[stulaw11]

Hello, could you please elaborate a little?

As I stated earlier, the 9.7 inch Pro and the Air 2 are very similar when it comes to CPU performance on paper (yeah GPU is a different story) but they both have the same amount of RAM.

I'm curios as to what Apple could come up with that the Air 2 couldn't and the Pro could do. Based only on their overall performance and not on their other obvious differences (support for pencil and keyboard, True Tone Display, etc...)

Because Apple can say so. They could arbitrarily limit some features to A9 chips and above very easily, considering when iOS10 is released the air 2 will be 2 years old. The Air 2 has received by that time more than adequate OS support; and Apple's recent history has been to cut OS features from devices around 2 years or older.

You can at that point like it or lump it (move to a different brand if you don't like their policies). There is not much else one can say about it.

 

[Sparky2012]

For benchmarks, gaming, video and photo editing, sure. Watching Netflix? Not really. For something like H.265 4K playback, it'll be hardware decode acceleration that'll do it meaning new silicon (ergo new iPad) and not CPU grunt. Also, not all tasks can be made multi-threaded. Quite a number of times, a program might be stuck waiting for one thread to finish before it can continue whatever it is that needs to be done.

Multitasking, we really do need more RAM. However, this is Apple. I expect by the time they give us 4GB on 9.7" devices, 8GB should already be minimum.

I think AnandTech has a pretty interesting take on multi-cores on the iPad.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9766/the-apple-ipad-pro-review/2

I realise this (apart from the bit you said that a program might be stuck waiting on a thread to finish. Cheers for that). I also somewhat agree that we need more RAM or will do in the future.

I do wonder how much more performance Apple can get out of the Dual-Core architecture. Surely it won't be long until they have to go to either Tri-Core or Quad-Core.

 

[roop27]

Thanks for the reply. I actually have enough money (luckily) that I could buy any iPad available today, and more, but that's not the point. I don't think it's worth the £200 more for what I do and I would rather put those £200 somewhere else.

how is the ipad pro £200 more than the ipad air 2?

 

[coreas692]

Because Apple can say so. They could arbitrarily limit some features to A9 chips and above very easily, considering when iOS10 is released the air 2 will be 2 years old. The Air 2 has received by that time more than adequate OS support; and Apple's recent history has been to cut OS features from devices around 2 years or older.

You can at that point like it or lump it (move to a different brand if you don't like their policies). There is not much else one can say about it.

Yeah, I am aware how the people in Apple can be real utter a**holes sometimes (most times).

I guess, let's pray for iOS 10 jailbreak to fill in the gaps. XD

 

[stulaw11]

That is the only reason I dont think its such an easy "well $499 gets you 64 Air 2 and $599 gets you 32gb IPP 9.7 and same resolution and RAM so the choice is crystal clear" scenario.

One may find themself SOL shortly on new OS features or upgrading at even more money than just getting the IPP 9.7 to begin with for $100 more. We still are talking buying a device that is already going on 2 years old at the end of the day.

 

[rui no onna]

That is the only reason I dont think its such an easy "well $499 gets you 64 Air 2 and $599 gets you 32gb IPP 9.7 and same resolution and RAM so the choice is crystal clear" scenario.

One may find themself SOL shortly on new OS features or upgrading at even more money than just getting the IPP 9.7 to begin with for $100 more. We still are talking buying a device that is already going on 2 years old at the end of the day.

Or you could find yourself paying extra for the iPad Pro now and still upgrading with even more money after 2 years. There's just no guarantee either way. Mind, I believe Apple certified refurb is just $419. Discounts are even bigger if you want 128GB LTE ($599 vs $879).

 

[stulaw11]

Or you could find yourself paying extra for the iPad Pro now and still upgrading with even more money after 2 years. There's just no guarantee either way.

Well that's my point. Saving now may not really be saving and spending now may not be saving. Buy what you can afford and gut says to get.

Too much speculation about the future , Air 2 will be better deal if you can get it at x price, IPP 9.7 not worth the extra $, etc.

 

[rui no onna]

Well that's my point. Saving now may not really be saving and spending now may not be saving. Buy what you can afford and gut says to get.

Too much speculation about the future , Air 2 will be better deal if you can get it at x price, IPP 9.7 not worth the extra $, etc.

Agreed.

Disclosure, I did get the iPad Pro 9.7". Why? It's the only 9.7" iPad that has 256GB. And yes, I'm aware that's $1029 for 256GB Pro LTE vs $599 for 128GB Air 2 LTE. Yeah, essentially $430 for a 128GB storage bump. The 256GB is the only reason I'm upgrading as I'm otherwise content with the performance of my 128GB iPad 4.

 

[Capt T]

OP, seems the money is the only issue here for you.

If you can afford the 9.7 pro, then get it and check it out. If within 14 days (Apple gives 14 days to return) it seems it is t the right fit for you, go with the air 2. If the price difference seem too much to you then just go with the air2, there are great deals to be had on it.

 

[parajba]

how is the ipad pro £200 more than the ipad air 2?

Apologies, I am comparing the 64GB air 2 to the 128GB pro (its nearest compatible in size), even though I really don't know what to do with the extra 64GB.

On a different note, I read in the AnandTech link above that the display of the large pro is significantly better than that of the air 2 (not talking in terms of size here). So perhaps the display of the small pro is actually better than the Air 2. I will wait until I see one in the shops then decide. This could be the only factor in favour of the new pro.

 

[coreas692]

OP, seems the money is the only issue here for you.

If you can afford the 9.7 pro, then get it and check it out. If within 14 days (Apple gives 14 days to return) it seems it is t the right fit for you, go with the air 2. If the price difference seem too much to you then just go with the air2, there are great deals to be had on it.

Unfortunately Where I live official Apple retailers, due to taxes, all Apple products have unrealistic prices (just a few days ago the cheapest iPad Air 2 I could get from one was US$ 870 for the base 16 GB model).

So the best workaround to this is buy it in the US and have it brought here from a third party. If not just during a travel there buy he product and bring it. (And no having it ship here from eBay, Amazon, etc won't do cause they also don't have shipping here).

What I mean is: cannot try the Pro and then return it. It will be a lot more expensive to do so.

:/

 

[Krevnik]

Get the Air 2. I see no reason to get the Pro 9.7 when Air 2 offer pretty close performance + 2G ram for 200 bucks less. In real world app performance, do you really believe you can see the performance of 4542 vs 5272?

Multicore performance isn't the only measure, don't ignore single core perf which will impact more scenarios than it won't. The problem is that as much as we like to think apps are multithreaded properly, it just hasn't really happened in the last 5 years. So are there scenarios where the Air 2 will do well? Yes, but it depends on the app. Are there many scenarios where it will just beat out the Air 2 no question? More often than not.

Even on the Mac this is true, where I upgraded to an iMac from an older Mac Pro with similar multicore performance but much better single core. End result was a much faster feeling machine, even if my video encodes didn't benefit.

EDIT: I will say though that the iPad Air 2 is still quite good. So while the Pro will be faster in many cases, I don't think I'd tell someone they should get the latest model for future proofing right now.

 

[roop27]

Apologies, I am comparing the 64GB air 2 to the 128GB pro (its nearest compatible in size), even though I really don't know what to do with the extra 64GB.

On a different note, I read in the AnandTech link above that the display of the large pro is significantly better than that of the air 2 (not talking in terms of size here). So perhaps the display of the small pro is actually better than the Air 2. I will wait until I see one in the shops then decide. This could be the only factor in favour of the new pro.

No need to apologise I just thought If it's £200 cheaper I'm jumping straight on that (however I'm purchasing the 32gb which is only £70 dearer)

 

[Guacamole]

Hey I hear the iPad 3 was really struggling since it had a Retina Display and the same processor as the iPad 2. Were you on iOS 9? Is so, how well was it handling it?

yes, my Ipad 3 was very sluggish , sometimes webpages would struggle to load. On IOS 7 was painful, never upgraded to IOS 8 because I read that it was even worst. I did however upgrade to IOS 9 and surprisingly was a bit better than on IOS7