I can get you a i5 laptop in the same category like the mac pro for 800. Even in a all metal design. But sure the mac pro have a fantastic display, that you wont find on a other laptop.
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iPad iPad Air 2 use very slow TLC nand
- Thread starter From0toHero
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I really don't care which type of nand my iPad has. The only thing what's annoying is that uploading pictures to the devices takes too long. But I hope you don't upload every day more than 1000 pictures.
I'm not sure MLC would be much faster. Even the newer Lightning interface is pretty pokey with large transfers, whether or not you have TLC or MLC.
Well, I just made a speed test.
Sent a single 1011.72 MB zip file to my Air 2 128 GB model in 19 secs over WiFi. That's 53.3 MB/s continuous writing speed.
Just in case you want to test yourself, here's my setup:
I used the ComicGlass app as client on my iPad and the ComicGlass server program on my PC. WiFi 802.11ac connection via FRITZ!Box 7490 router, 2.5 m distance between router and iPad. PC and router connected over Gbit-LAN.
My iPad is equipped with the "slow" TLC NAND. I really can't complain about the speed.
Sent a single 1011.72 MB zip file to my Air 2 128 GB model in 19 secs over WiFi. That's 53.3 MB/s continuous writing speed.
Just in case you want to test yourself, here's my setup:
I used the ComicGlass app as client on my iPad and the ComicGlass server program on my PC. WiFi 802.11ac connection via FRITZ!Box 7490 router, 2.5 m distance between router and iPad. PC and router connected over Gbit-LAN.
My iPad is equipped with the "slow" TLC NAND. I really can't complain about the speed.
Two years ago i bought Asus Zenbook (i7/8gb/256ssd/15" ips) and anything similar from Apple would have cost alot more.
www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Asus-Zenbook-UX51VZ-U500VZ-Notebook.84246.0.html
And same is today.
Example, lenovo vs mbpr
lenovo y50-70
i7 (2,5ghz)/16 gb ram/512 gb ssd
geforce gtx 860M 4gb
ultra hd (3840 x 2160) ips
1650 euros
Mbpr
i7 (2,2ghz)/16 gb ram/256 gb ssd
2880 x 1800
2050 euros (24% more, smaller ssd)
i7 (2,2ghz)/16 gb ram/512 gb ssd
2880 x 1800
2350 euros (42% more)
i7 (2,2ghz)/16 gb ram/512 gb ssd
2880 x 1800
geforce gt 750m 2gb
2550 euros (55% more)
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Very disappointed about this.
No, it's not gonna make your iPad an unusable trash, and in fact, even with TLC nand, iPad Air 2 is a great device that few, if any, competitors can match.
However, it's disappointing the extent they would go to save this little bit of cost while selling $500+ Devices.
True, no life's gonna likely be lost over 12 seconds, but those seconds can really do a lot to make the difference in user experience. But be that as it may, that's not the biggest issue. Most people don't (and shouldn't) use their mobile device such as iPad as an external storage device, so yeah, those extra 10 + seconds to transfer 1.4gb large video file, it's no big deal really.
But I am also told that TLC has shorter read/write lifespan, and may cause app instability in some situations compared to MLC. Of course, once again, neither will be fatal problems.
Apple probably pulled this thinking most of their target customers wouldn't know, understand or care about this. Sure enough, the people who know enough talk about TLC, MLC etc like us here are an extreme minority.
However, at least in my mind, Apple devices are no longer the premium products that I once saw them as.
To think how long they've been justifying 1gb ram, and I was so happy that a model with 2gb ram came out, only to be smacked in the face like this. No, it's not like I am gonna pass down my iPad Air 2 as a family heirloom or something (yes, despite all this, I bought it too, half grudgingly... This will probably be the last time I buy an Apple product, unless they change their ways) but every time my iPad Air 2 crashes or does a random reboot, I will be so unhappy, associating such failures, rightly or wrongly, to the nand flash. That psychological impact will take away from the user satisfaction for me.
No, it's not gonna make your iPad an unusable trash, and in fact, even with TLC nand, iPad Air 2 is a great device that few, if any, competitors can match.
However, it's disappointing the extent they would go to save this little bit of cost while selling $500+ Devices.
True, no life's gonna likely be lost over 12 seconds, but those seconds can really do a lot to make the difference in user experience. But be that as it may, that's not the biggest issue. Most people don't (and shouldn't) use their mobile device such as iPad as an external storage device, so yeah, those extra 10 + seconds to transfer 1.4gb large video file, it's no big deal really.
But I am also told that TLC has shorter read/write lifespan, and may cause app instability in some situations compared to MLC. Of course, once again, neither will be fatal problems.
Apple probably pulled this thinking most of their target customers wouldn't know, understand or care about this. Sure enough, the people who know enough talk about TLC, MLC etc like us here are an extreme minority.
However, at least in my mind, Apple devices are no longer the premium products that I once saw them as.
To think how long they've been justifying 1gb ram, and I was so happy that a model with 2gb ram came out, only to be smacked in the face like this. No, it's not like I am gonna pass down my iPad Air 2 as a family heirloom or something (yes, despite all this, I bought it too, half grudgingly... This will probably be the last time I buy an Apple product, unless they change their ways) but every time my iPad Air 2 crashes or does a random reboot, I will be so unhappy, associating such failures, rightly or wrongly, to the nand flash. That psychological impact will take away from the user satisfaction for me.
iPad Air 2 use very slow TLC nand
Haven't had a reboot yet and have the 128gb cell air 2. Not sure if it's tlc or mlc...and don't care. Here is why: I read in a article that if you read/write 10gb per day tlc nand lasts about 11.5 years. But samsungs tlc nand 840 ssd drive lasted 7x longer than it's smart value in a endurance test. That would mean well over 77 years if you write 10gb per day.
There won't be a performance difference in how fast apps run from mlc or tlc ssd either...which is what matters. A iPad Air 2 with a tlc nand ssd will still be a lot faster than a iPad with mlc nand ssd, and will be equivalent in running programs to an air 2 with mlc. Only time you might see a difference is in very large file transfers.
Need to make that clear. Because if you have a flawless air 2 you should not return it because of misinformation on the internetz.
Haven't had a reboot yet and have the 128gb cell air 2. Not sure if it's tlc or mlc...and don't care. Here is why: I read in a article that if you read/write 10gb per day tlc nand lasts about 11.5 years. But samsungs tlc nand 840 ssd drive lasted 7x longer than it's smart value in a endurance test. That would mean well over 77 years if you write 10gb per day.
There won't be a performance difference in how fast apps run from mlc or tlc ssd either...which is what matters. A iPad Air 2 with a tlc nand ssd will still be a lot faster than a iPad with mlc nand ssd, and will be equivalent in running programs to an air 2 with mlc. Only time you might see a difference is in very large file transfers.
Need to make that clear. Because if you have a flawless air 2 you should not return it because of misinformation on the internetz.
If you want to compare prices you should compare T/X series.
Dont get me wrong, you "can" shop around and get Lenovo's cheaper if they are on offer, but at "full price" Lenovo didnt turn out to be cheaper.
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I restored my iPad and uploading 18.000 pictures (including big videos) were uploaded very very fast!! I don't know why, but the first time I waited more than 5-6 hours. This time I finished it in like 1.5 hours. (maybe a lil shorter or longer)
For those of you that are emotionally traumatized by the type of NAND flash storage your iPad uses, you should return it if you're within the return window or you should sell it. And then buy a different tablet.
There's no sense in putting yourself through such emotional turmoil over something that doesn't matter.
Best of luck and I hope you eventually find inner peace.
Bryan
There's no sense in putting yourself through such emotional turmoil over something that doesn't matter.
Best of luck and I hope you eventually find inner peace.
Bryan
Do you have anything important going on in your life? I just cant believe people are complaining about this is ridiculous. Do you guys realize how pathetic all this sounds. Im assuming you guys have no kids or significant others and are in high school or middle school.
Read what you wrote out loud to a bunch of people then maybe youll realize how pathetic it is. This is not just targeted at you, your not the only one that had your life ruined because of TLC Flash.
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I applaud you for identifying that it is psychological. It is true that TLC ("triple level cell") is not as rugged or high-performing as MLC ("multi-level cell, "which, in turn, is not nearly as rugged or high-performing as SLC, or "single-level cell"). What might make you feel better would be to compare the actual numbers that make up the basis of such statements.
For example, to say that a TLC-based storage system would burn out after three years of constant write/erase activity compared to an SLC-based storage system that might last for 50 years under the same conditions certainly makes the TLC sound inferior. Yet when you consider that your own usage contains a minimal number of write/erase activity, you realize that the lifespan of the TLC in your iPad is likely well over ten years. Maybe it would be hundreds of years if Apple had gone with SLC or MLC, but what does that matter?
If you're concerned that TLC is a poor performer, I'd invite you to look at SSD benchmarks. Modern TLC-based SSDs (like what I have in my MacBook Pro, which endures far more demanding activity than my iPad) are faster than some older MLC-based SSDs. Perhaps seeing it in bar graph form would provide some psychological reassurance.
There's more to speed and performance than just TLC vs. MLC vs. SLC. If you're feeling down because you hear that we're using TLC over MLC and that TLC is worse than MLC, why not look into the differences between the technologies to make yourself feel better?
iPad Air 2 use very slow TLC nand
If i pay premium prices, i want that best possible parts in my electric devices. My PC have a 1300 Dollar Graphic Card. If i want medium parts i will buy a cheap HP tablet or something alike. But if a pay almost 900 Dollars for a tablet, i dont want the cheapest nand available. Pathetic or not, i guess you dont get the point. If you buy a car u take the cheapest tires available or you get a quality product? Think about it. And btw i have 2 children and sometimes more problems than i need, but i care what parts my devices or cars have!
If i pay premium prices, i want that best possible parts in my electric devices. My PC have a 1300 Dollar Graphic Card. If i want medium parts i will buy a cheap HP tablet or something alike. But if a pay almost 900 Dollars for a tablet, i dont want the cheapest nand available. Pathetic or not, i guess you dont get the point. If you buy a car u take the cheapest tires available or you get a quality product? Think about it. And btw i have 2 children and sometimes more problems than i need, but i care what parts my devices or cars have!
Let's take a look at your analogy and apply it to this situation. Would you be upset if you bought a new car and it came with tires that were expected to last 2 million miles versus 3 million miles? Of course not, because the car as a whole will not last that long.
That is the reality of this entire situation...
Bryan
Hmm i understand your standpoint. But the question is not only about lifespan. Its also about Performance. And the failure rate of TLC is also bigger. I checked the old forums and under MLC nand there where never so wide spread rebooting problems like under TLC.
Im sorry your life is ruined just return the tablet and get something else...Im not sure what you want to hear...Apple is not going to change business practices cause FROM0TOHERO is having a heart attack with a TLC chip...its just hilarious someone would lose sleep over this. Hope you find a device with perfect specs for you.
I ahte to break it to you but Apple has not used the very best of the best in their products.
You could not afford it!
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iPad Air 2 use very slow TLC nand
This is absurdity and misinformation. Other than a few seconds in large file transfers the ssd is not going to bottleneck performance. An air 2 with tlc chip will still be twice as fast as a air 1 with mlc chip and be as fast as an air 2 with mlc chip. The processor / graphics chip determines performance and the air 2 is twice as fast as an air 1 regardless if it uses tlc or mlc.
I have an air 2 128gig cell and not one reboot thus far.
As far as rebooting problems you don't even know if that is a nand chip specific problem.
This is absurdity and misinformation. Other than a few seconds in large file transfers the ssd is not going to bottleneck performance. An air 2 with tlc chip will still be twice as fast as a air 1 with mlc chip and be as fast as an air 2 with mlc chip. The processor / graphics chip determines performance and the air 2 is twice as fast as an air 1 regardless if it uses tlc or mlc.
I have an air 2 128gig cell and not one reboot thus far.
As far as rebooting problems you don't even know if that is a nand chip specific problem.
Today the Apple Shop replaced my Air 2 because of a strange clicking noise out of the speakers. I just checked it and its sill TLC. But meanwhile i hope it works and its ok. I will not break my head about this TLC vs MLC anymore. Hope everybody else is happy with his new Air 2