iPad iPad Air crashing in all apps and applecare will not exchange the unit, help please!

[foobi]

Replacements could be an adequate solution, if Apple is willing to compensate the user for all the time they invest in helping to diagnose the problem, drive the product back and forth to the Apple store, communicate with Apple employees about the issue and so on.

If Apple is not willing to compensate customers for their lost time, or issue a refund, they are leaving those users high and dry.

The problem of course is that compensating the customer as I suggest could be rather expensive, even at minimum wage, and so Apple shifts those costs of resolving the issue on to the buyer.

Thus the customer is forced to work for Apple, resolving Apple's problems, for free. That is their reward for deciding to support Apple with their hard earned money.

I have already emailed Tim Cook and that's when I got in touch with the person I have contact with now. He is positioned at the office at Ireland.
It is in this position I have been stuck in a month. And I'm getting tired of going through the same procedure every week without being able to use my iPad to something sensible. So much time is spent talking on the phone and answering the same questions every week and send log files.

I have found that Apple usually bends over backwards to help any customer who has a problem with their device.

I suspect, from reading this thread, that this user got rather nasty at the store and after replacing his device THREE TIMES, they are done with him. There has to be limits and Apple can not be responsible for every crash on their iPad. Some sites are so unstable that they can and will cause problems.

I can understand that it is crashes on heavy sites.
But it can not crash in normal use and in almost every app that Apple themself made. If I use my other iPad Air in the same way it does not crash.

And again, I have not been "nasty" to anyway at Apple. I have given out my frustration on the forum once and not against Apple directly.

What site? I'll try on my ipad to try and reproduce.

Some examples: macrumors.com, ikea.com, facebook.com

 

[Newtons Apple]

Where is your evidence the user got nasty? If you have no evidence, why are you accusing a fellow Mac user of bad manners when he has displayed none in this thread?

If the device still doesn't work, why is Apple done with him?



Please show us where on the iPad sales pages it explains that crashes should be expected as a normal part of the iPad experience.

Check out the replies in the beginning of this thread.

No where does it say that you are not going to have your device crash. "Entitlement" does not cover having a perfect experience on ANY Apple device.

 

[Felasco]

Entitlement" does not cover having a perfect experience on ANY Apple device.

Apple customers are entitled to whatever the relevant sales pages describe.

If the sales pages explain that crashing is a normal part of the experience, then Apple is released from responsibility for crashes.

If the sales pages offer no such disclaimer, then customers are being entirely reasonable in expecting that the product work wonderfully, as the sales pages state.

Apple has spent 30 years promising a point and click simple experience for most of it's products. Apple has deliberately built a customer base of regular people who are not technically sophisticated computer nerds, such as those of us who use forums like this might be described.

Thus, Apple has by it's own actions obligated itself to explain the experience that customers can expect in some detail, in easy to understand terms.

Again, please show us where the iPad sales pages explain that crashing should be expected as a normal part of the iPad experience, and I will withdraw my statements and agree that I am wrong and misinformed on this topic.

Finally, please note that Apple expects the customer to fulfill their end of the deal in a 100% perfect manner, with no excuses. Customers are required to pay every single penny of the sales price upfront, or they don't walk out of the store with the product.

Thus, if the customer is required to do their job perfectly, Apple is reasonably expected to respond in kind.

 

[Newtons Apple]

Apple customers are entitled to whatever the relevant sales pages describe.

If the sales pages explain that crashing is a normal part of the experience, then Apple is released from responsibility for crashes.

If the sales pages offer no such disclaimer, then customers are being entirely reasonable in expecting that the product work wonderfully, as the sales pages state.

Apple has spent 30 years promising a point and click simple experience for most of it's products. Apple has deliberately built a customer base of regular people who are not technically sophisticated computer nerds, such as those of us who use forums like this might be described.

Thus, Apple has by it's own actions obligated itself to explain the experience that customers can expect in some detail, in easy to understand terms.

Again, please show us where the iPad sales pages explain that crashing should be expected as a normal part of the iPad experience, and I will withdraw my statements and agree that I am wrong and misinformed on this topic.

Finally, please note that Apple expects the customer to fulfill their end of the deal in a 100% perfect manner, with no excuses. Customers are required to pay every single penny of the sales price upfront, or they don't walk out of the store with the product.

Thus, if the customer is required to do their job perfectly, Apple is reasonably expected to respond in kind.

Show me where in all these documents they warranty that your device will never crash.

I do not think you are being rational if you expect perfect but then in todays world, I have no doubt you do!

I will end my replies here

 

[Felasco]

Show me where in all these documents they warranty that your device will never crash.

If users should expect Apple products to crash, if that is the realistic real world truth, the sales pages are obligated to explain that. If they don't, they are participating in a bait and switch fraud.

And please note, this thread is about chronic crashes which render the device largely unusable.

I do not think you are being rational if you expect perfect but then in todays world, I have no doubt you do!

Customers should expect only what Apple has promised on it's sales pages. I don't expect all products to be perfect, but I do expect a good faith effort from Apple to be truthful.

Apple has 80,000 employees and something like 3 BILLION dollars a month in net profit. Apple is not starving, it is clearly in a position to be the honest, upstanding, good citizen, clear communicating vendor we all hope it might be.

 

[Felasco]

Let's try looking at this another way....

Imagine for a moment that you the reader bought something for $500 from me, just some guy on a forum.

You get the product home, and it doesn't work as advertised. You ask for a refund, but I refuse, and suck you in to the repair loop instead, taking up a ton of your time which I won't compensate you for.

What's your relationship with me and my company now?

I'm guessing that at the least you are going to be telling others that me and my products stink, and that your negative word of mouth campaign is going to cost me some future sales.

If I had done the right thing and immediately and cheerfully apologized and issued the requested refund, I'd still have a shot at your business and those of your friends. This could be a positive word of mouth story which would actually help my business, as it would demonstrate I can be counted on.

But instead I decided to turn you in to a disappointed and mad customer. In such a case, I would not only be wrong....

I would be stupid.

 

[Rodster]

Let's try looking at this another way....

Imagine for a moment that you the reader bought something for $500 from me, just some guy on a forum.

You get the product home, and it doesn't work as advertised. You ask for a refund, but I refuse, and suck you in to the repair loop instead, taking up a ton of your time which I won't compensate you for.

What's your relationship with me and my company now?

I'm guessing that at the least you are going to be telling others that me and my products stink, and that your negative word of mouth campaign is going to cost me some future sales.

If I had done the right thing and immediately and cheerfully apologized and issued the requested refund, I'd still have a shot at your business and those of your friends. This could be a positive word of mouth story which would actually help my business, as it would demonstrate I can be counted on.

But instead I decided to turn you in to a disappointed and mad customer. In such a case, I would not only be wrong, I would be stupid.

As a small business owner your approach is the right way to do things. As you grow and become a bigger company people will look at you as a company with deep pockets who can absorb the costs of returns and exchanges. While Apple sells millions of iDevices and makes huge profits from it. Apple is not in 100% control of the situation or any publicly traded company. They have to appease shareholders and those shareholders are looking at the P/E numbers first and foremost.

Look at Amazon for instance. They have year after year won customer service awards but they sell BILLIONS of dollars worth of goods and profit at best $100-200 million each year. The no hassle returns eat into profits.

 

[ZipZap]

Thanks for your reply. After the last replacement in the store I got home and it started crashing before I even had time to download any apps. So the iPad crashes with core iOS apps only too.
The iPad was not connected to iCloud yet then.



1: Yes. The iPad running the latest iOS.
7.1.1 fixed safari crashing for my other iPad Air too but this unit that we are talking about lives its own life..

2: Most often it crashes back to the homescreen (exits the app) but sometimes it also do the springboard reboot (apple logo displayed)

3: Yes ofc, but not if its core iOS apps and other well developed apps, it works fine on my other ipad air.

4: I will try this today. Thanks



Yes the iPad has always been updated to the latest iOS. And it has been restored and set up as new both by me and Apple Care.




Thanks for your reply and story about iWork. I will try this one more time, with DFU install and see how the iPad reacts.
But the iPad started crashing before I even had downloaded any apps, and there was no connection to icloud in any way then.

SO I have to call BS. "I got home and it started crashing", "I had not done anything to it"? That leaves your router sending some sort of command that the iPad it does not like so it starts crashing…does that sound plausible?

You're leaving something out.

 

[JackieInCo]

A few crashes a day is certainly NOT normal at all. Lots of factors are in the mix here. I play games and use my Air all day with no crashes. I don't even have to deal with any safari problems. Must be lucky.

I'd think apple does have to make this right though. They should give the OP a new device if it's not working as designed.

It happens. I've had Facebook crash on me when trying to access a page on my Air. I then tried the same page on my retina Mini and the same page crashes it. I've had crashes in safari when trying to view the same page on both iPads as well.

 

[Felasco]

While Apple sells millions of iDevices and makes huge profits from it. Apple is not in 100% control of the situation or any publicly traded company. They have to appease shareholders and those shareholders are looking at the P/E numbers first and foremost.

Yes, this is a good point. Customers are not the only people in the equation. They are however the most important people. It is the customers who provide the money that pays the employees and the shareholders.

I'm not at all sure that fast apologies (which cost nothing) and refunds will cost shareholders profits. In your example it's possible that Amazon is simply in a business (like books) with very low margins.

Although I'm open to learning here, it seems to me that if a customer gets a refund, Apple can refurb the product, resell it and recoup most or all of their cost.

The profit on that sale may be lost, but that has to be weighed against the positive word of mouth from relaxed and happy customers, which leads to increased sales and profits.

And what is the cost in lost sales and profits from sending a steady stream of unhappy and mad people back in to the Apple community?

Point being, the profit lost on a refund is not the only factor to be considered.

I'm not sure anybody including Apple really knows what the bottom line is here.

 

[Newtons Apple]

It happens. I've had Facebook crash on me when trying to access a page on my Air. I then tried the same page on my retina Mini and the same page crashes it. I've had crashes in safari when trying to view the same page on both iPads as well.

A great example of why Apple can not be responsible for crashes on the Internet. I, too, have had sites that it does not matter what device I am on, it will crash. Apple can not be expected to have it device work with every site 100% of the time.

Some here feel that with all that money they paid, everything should be perfect in their little world! Not going to happen!

 

[TWO2SEVEN]

Some here feel that with all that money they paid, everything should be perfect in their little world! Not going to happen!

Most people probably pay a lot more for their car than their Apple products and have a lot more issues.

 

[gnasher729]

Thanks for your reply. After the last replacement in the store I got home and it started crashing before I even had time to download any apps. So the iPad crashes with core iOS apps only too.
The iPad was not connected to iCloud yet then.

Main possibilities: Fake charger with serious voltage spikes. Messed up WiFi router. Visiting particular websites. Seriously bad luck.

 

[Felasco]

A great example of why Apple can not be responsible for crashes on the Internet.

Nope, nope, nope and nope.

Why does the mighty Apple let web pages bring down it's devices??

Whatever the issue is (lack of memory etc), why can't Apple code it's OS so that when that condition occurs the device puts up a friendly alert informing the user of what the problem is, instead of crashing?

"Sorry we can't show this page because the site you are visiting is coded incorrectly etc"

Unless and until the sales pages state that their devices will crash sometimes, every crash is Apple's fault.

Please explain to us why a few such sentences can't be added to the sales pages. That would cost Apple about five dollars worth of labor.

If it's inevitable that devices will crash, if there really is no way around it due to the laws of physics or something, the smart thing for Apple to do is to make sure the customer learns that from Apple BEFORE they purchase.

Customers understand that there are limits to everything. They don't understand or appreciate bait and switch.

 

[Crispykickz]

So the ipad has been replaced multiple times and you're getting the same results. Take away: its not the ipad.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results.

Its time to try something else, maybe setup a new apple ID and see how things work. There is something else going on here...

 

[HenryDJP]

Yes, this is a good point. Customers are not the only people in the equation. They are however the most important people. It is the customers who provide the money that pays the employees and the shareholders.

I understand where you're getting at but that's not really correct in terms of the shareholders. While it's true that increased sales quarters will drive stock purchases which put money into the shareholder's pockets, shareholders are actually purchasing stock in the company (and it's really gambling) and many times it's not because of quarterly sales hikes. It has much to do with the latest news about where the company is going in the future that drives stock purchases.

In regards to your earlier posts, once again I understand where you're getting at but to be honest about it, your posts are coming across loud and clear that you either have a major axe to grind with Apple or you just hate the company. I'm honestly not sure why you are a customer of theirs at all based on the multiple posts you've written in this thread against them.

The iPad is not a crash-prone machine despite what you or a couple of others are trying to make it out to be. iOS7 does need some updates and maybe iOS 8 will be the answer but to say it consistently crashes is simply not true.
While Apple certainly doesn't state that it's normal to get crashes on your iPad, they also don't state anywhere on their website that the iPad is crash-proof.

----------

Unless and until the sales pages state that their devices will crash sometimes, every crash is Apple's fault.

That's ridiculous. Many 3rd part developer's apps can easily be coded badly or have corrupt files that causes instability in the OS and among other perfectly running apps. Can't blame anyone but the developer if their apps are bad.

 

[Night Spring]

Just had an idea. OP says he has a second Air that is working perfectly. So try restoring a backup from that iPad onto the iPad that is crashing. If it still crashes, voila, you have proof that it's a hardware problem, and you can demand an exchange or refund from Apple.

 

[Newtons Apple]

Just had an idea. OP says he has a second Air that is working perfectly. So try restoring a backup from that iPad onto the iPad that is crashing. If it still crashes, voila, you have proof that it's a hardware problem, and you can demand an exchange or refund from Apple.

I am not sure you can DEMAND a refund after the 30 days and I think they have repleaced his iPad three times.

 

[Night Spring]

I am not sure you can DEMAND a refund after the 30 days and I think they have repleaced his iPad three times.

Well, it's rare that you would get three defective units in a row, but it can happen. And yes, it's past 30 days, but getting three defective units in a row does seem to me like cause for making an exception.

Maybe "demand" is too strong a word, but I would firmly request another exchange or a refund.

 

[Felasco]

many times it's not because of quarterly sales hikes. It has much to do with the latest news about where the company is going in the future that drives stock purchases.

And where any company is always going in the future is trying to attract more customers.

In regards to your earlier posts, once again I understand where you're getting at but to be honest about it, your posts are coming across loud and clear that you either have a major axe to grind with Apple or you just hate the company.

Actually, in many of the threads I participate in, I'm the only person supporting Apple, while the rest of the posters invest their time and intelligence in to rationalizing a culture of mediocrity, which is the biggest threat to Apple's future.

Steve Jobs, the founder of Apple, saw this clearly and was a major pain in the butt to all those he led as he relentlessly and endlessly pushed, pushed, pushed for ever higher standards.

My posts are in agreement with Apple's founder, while many or most of the rest of you seem content that Apple become the next Microsoft, a big arrogant sleepy corporate behemoth that rationalizes mediocrity and lame service and is eventually elbowed aside by younger, hungrier, smarter companies.

Here's the problem, as I see it.

Mac forums tend to be dominated by intelligent young men with above average knowledge of the technical aspects of Apple products. These folks are a great resource for those having problems with Apple products that are out of warranty. I tip my hat to them for their skill and willingness to invest their time in sharing their skill.

The problem comes when discussing problems that arise within warranty. These are not technical problems, but business problems. Being a savvy tech nerd does not help here, as those skills don't qualify one to address business problems.

Put bluntly, most posters here are too young and inexperienced to understand the business issues, however skilled they may be technically. This is nobody's fault, as none of us are born knowing everything. This is a limitation that will resolve itself in time as they gain more experience in the coming years.

I'm honestly not sure why you are a customer of theirs at all based on the multiple posts you've written in this thread against them.

Again, you may have this notion that you support Apple while I do not. I see the reverse to be more true, as explained above. Just ask yourself which posts on the forum most resemble what Steve Jobs might have written, and you'll see what I mean.

The iPad is not a crash-prone machine despite what you or a couple of others are trying to make it out to be.

I didn't say that, you are arguing against an assertion of your own invention here.

iOS7 does need some updates and maybe iOS 8 will be the answer but to say it consistently crashes is simply not true.

It is consistently crashing for the person who started the thread. My point is that he should have long ago been offered an apology and a refund. The point is that Apple should be and remain a leader in customer service, and that all excuses and rationalizations be swept aside in a never ending pursuit of that goal.

While Apple certainly doesn't state that it's normal to get crashes on your iPad, they also don't state anywhere on their website that the iPad is crash-proof.

More rationalization of mediocrity, swept off the table by Steve Jobs in one of his legendary tantrums.

Guys, please learn something about Steve Jobs, the person who created Apple and was most responsible for it's success. Learn about Steve Jobs, and then return to these threads and see if Jobs would have typed what you're typing.

I say not.

That's ridiculous. Many 3rd part developer's apps can easily be coded badly or have corrupt files that causes instability in the OS and among other perfectly running apps. Can't blame anyone but the developer if their apps are bad.

This is yet another example of rationalizing mediocrity and failure, a consistent pattern in these threads.

As I explained in another thread, Apple can and should set up an approved list of 3rd party apps. These apps will have been inspected and certified by Apple as being safe for use on Apple devices.

If a user tries to install an app not on the approved list, a warning pops up. If the user dismisses the warning and continues to install, Apple is relieved of any further responsibility.

But watch...

Everyone will now argue against this, because you want someone you can blame Apple's failures on. You don't want the 3rd party developer problem solved, because then you'd have to face the real challenge, Apple.

 

[Saint.Icon]

Apple customers are entitled to whatever the relevant sales pages describe.

If the sales pages explain that crashing is a normal part of the experience, then Apple is released from responsibility for crashes.

If the sales pages offer no such disclaimer, then customers are being entirely reasonable in expecting that the product work wonderfully, as the sales pages state.

Apple has spent 30 years promising a point and click simple experience for most of it's products. Apple has deliberately built a customer base of regular people who are not technically sophisticated computer nerds, such as those of us who use forums like this might be described.

Thus, Apple has by it's own actions obligated itself to explain the experience that customers can expect in some detail, in easy to understand terms.

Again, please show us where the iPad sales pages explain that crashing should be expected as a normal part of the iPad experience, and I will withdraw my statements and agree that I am wrong and misinformed on this topic.

Finally, please note that Apple expects the customer to fulfill their end of the deal in a 100% perfect manner, with no excuses. Customers are required to pay every single penny of the sales price upfront, or they don't walk out of the store with the product.

Thus, if the customer is required to do their job perfectly, Apple is reasonably expected to respond in kind.

While I go track that down, mind showing me where in the TOS for iOS that is says you have the right to be an entitled, self-righteous prick?

People like you are why customer service generally sucks. Nothing is ever good enough for you. Nothing is ever enough. You expect to be treated like god's gift to humanity for buying something, and it's ridiculous.

Apple isn't responsible if you go to a site that makes Safari crash. They're not responsible if you get malware. They're not responsible if there's fecal matter on your iPad from you attempting to use it while your head is firmly lodged up your own ass. Hardware defects? Sure. Software bugs? They'll patch them eventually. But you can't hold a company responsible or liable for every minuscule thing that may lead to your device experience being less than at your self-described "perfect" status.

Don't like it? Tough. Go find another company to buy products from, and see if they'll change your diaper when something goes wrong and you throw a self-entitled tantrum.

 

[Saint.Icon]

*Steve Jobs worship here*

Steve Jobs was a salesman. Plain and simple. He was a genius, a visionary, but most of all, a salesman.

He was also a control freak. So much so that he dictated a total path for Apple, in all fields, through what many sources say is 2016.

So sit and whine about how Apple has gone downhill without Steve all you want. The fact of the matter is that the Apple you see today is still entirely by Steve Jobs' design, and has followed his direction.

 

[Night Spring]

So sit and whine about how Apple has gone downhill without Steve all you want. The fact of the matter is that the Apple you see today is still entirely by Steve Jobs' design, and has followed his direction.

Not sure Steve would have approved of the iOS 7 design, or the removal of Scott Forstall. But overall, I agree, most of today's Apple is still running according to the direction laid down by Steve Jobs. and many of today's problems were already happening under Steve Jobs. Anyone remember AntennaGate?

 

[Felasco]

So sit and whine about how Apple has gone downhill without Steve all you want..

Um I said nothing of the kind, another case of arguing against an assertion of the poster's own invention.

My point was that Jobs embraced a state of passionate chronic dissatisfaction, a mindset crucial to the success of any company in a market as competitive as consumer electronics.

That mindset is particularly important for any company which wishes to brand itself as the quality alternative in their market.

I'm referencing Jobs as a highly relevant example of the mindset I'm selling in my posts. Jobs got it. You guys mostly don't.

----------

While I go track that down, mind showing me where in the TOS for iOS that is says you have the right to be an entitled, self-righteous prick?

This is the kind of thing folks start posting when it begins to dawn on them they won't be able to defeat my points on the merits. Ok, no problem, I accept your surrender.

People like you are why customer service generally sucks.

Um, I've been arguing for an enhanced customer experience in all of my posts. I'm arguing for YOUR interests, in the hopes that you might never have to experience losing the lemon lottery. I'm arguing that Apple can and should treat you better, and so you're calling me names. Incoherent babble from the rabble.

 

[Felasco]

Oh, my hero! Fighting for my interests, oh lawdy, I might just faint from the actions of such a gallant knight! :roll eyes:.

Like I said, this is the kind of thing folks start posting when they want to win a debate, but realize they don't know how.

This is a very common debate tactic, an attempt to shift the focus of a discussion from the logical arguments where the poster is losing, to the emotional realm where they hope to have better luck.

I don't mind, please proceed if it pleases you. I see every post of this nature as you waving the white flag of surrender. Wave on fella, wave on.