iPad Air vs. Microsoft's Surface Go: Which Is a Better Laptop Replacement?

[alex cochez]

Maybe not for everyone, but I run linux Manjaro 4.19 KDE on a GO (8GB) and so far it's been a joy to use.

First time linux user (MAC since 2004). It's been a revelation how well linux serves the GO. Performance is way smoother.

My wife liked this little linux machine so much, we both have one now. We run our own small business, with the GO as our daily driver, and we are gradually moving towards open source solutions.

Downside is battery performance, a next generation should address this. And the only part that is not supported is the camera while the trackpad supports multi-gestures. At the moment Looking for a 3rd party stylus.

PS just pointing out another option, no intention to trigger an OS debate, to each his or her own.

 

[Lalatoon]

Maybe not for everyone, but I run linux Manjaro 4.19 KDE on a GO (8GB) and so far it's been a joy to use.

First time linux user (MAC since 2004). It's been a revelation how well linux serves the GO. Performance is way smoother.

My wife liked this little linux machine so much, we both have one now. We run our own small business, with the GO as our daily driver, and we are gradually moving towards open source solutions.

Downside is battery performance, a next generation should address this. And the only part that is not supported is the camera while the trackpad supports multi-gestures. At the moment Looking for a 3rd party stylus.

PS just pointing out another option, no intention to trigger an OS debate, to each his or her own.

Have you tried running TailsOS on GO?

And also I have Ubuntu installed into an external SSD which I boot into whatever PC or older Macbook I can use when I don't have my own laptop with me. Does Surface Go allows booting in USB? I can't boot Linux in my MacBook Air Retina because of touchpad and keyboard driver problem. Although there is a workaround already but for now I'm using VM to boot my external SSD with Ubuntu on it.

 

[Shanghaichica]

Why are you comparing 600 GBP machines against 1100 GBP machines? 600 has pretty much been as low as you can go in the laptop space (without going into Netbooks); you're surprised quality is a problem there?

I'm going to assume you went with an Acer machine; since they've generally been quite terrible (but cheap). Don't know anyone that's bought Acer twice for that reason.

They were Toshiba and Dell and Sony (My last 3 laptops). Well the Sony cost a bit more actually. However my MBA only cost £700 and the full retail price was £750. The laptops were all sold to me as midrange devices by the sales assistants. On each occasion I was willing to spend up to £1,000 but when I told the assistant what I wanted to use it for they recommended these midrange devices. When I bought the MBA they tried to sell me a cheaper windows machine, telling me I didn’t need to spend that much based on what I needed to do.

 

[alex cochez]

Have you tried running TailsOS on GO?

And also I have Ubuntu installed into an external SSD which I boot into whatever PC or older Macbook I can use when I don't have my own laptop with me. Does Surface Go allows booting in USB? I can't boot Linux in my MacBook Air Retina because of touchpad and keyboard driver problem. Although there is a workaround already but for now I'm using VM to boot my external SSD with Ubuntu on it.

I did a liveUSB install, so I think you should be fine.
Disable Microsoft's Secure Boot and rank USB storage first in the boot device order configuration. This is done in the UEFI (while booting press both power and volume up button until the UEFI interface shows up, may take 10-20 seconds).

Haven't tried another distro.

 

[Homme]

Apple's iPad Air, which was resurrected in March as essentially a tweaked version of the previous 10.5-inch iPad Pro,

Hell no, besides the CPU only being tweaked almost everything else the 10.5 Pro is better so no the Air 3 is not a tweaked version of the Pro.

 

[kis]

I am a Mac guy forever and I am forced to use a windows computer at work and I am still amazed how crappy windows 10 is. It is constantly doing bad things like moving all my icons to another monitor for some reason, skipping the first letter of my typing every once in awhile. It's garbage.

So you got a defective USB port and / or a defective keyboard and Windows 10 is garbage?

Call support for crying out loud.

Honestly - I don’t like working with Windows. But just like you, I’m forced to use it at work, which also includes me having to have it installed on bootcamp at home. Windows 10 may be uninspiring and the explorer looks like it hasn’t been updated since 1995. But I’ve used this on at least 20 different PCs over the last few years (we have PC and Laptop sharing at work) and they’ve all been absolutely rock solid. Windows 10 isn’t garbage. It’s just so freaking booooooring.

 

[kis]

I have the beta of iPad Os running on my iPad Pro 9.7 inch and I have had a Surface Go base model since launch. I bought the Surface Go out of frustration with iOS 11 on iPad Pro not really giving me the power I needed to travel without a full laptop as well as the iPad.

I had an erroneous assumption that since Surface Go ran full Windows 10 that it could be a laptop replacement and I could use it to replace a laptop during travel.

The short answer is no it didn’t replace my laptop for productivity. I was limited in the following ways:
1. The keyboard on Surface Go is slightly smaller than usual size and it flexes quite a bit increasing the amount of typing errors I made;
2. It was quite slow even with MS office apps multitasking was quite draining;
3. Full windows 10 apps don’t work well in tablet mode.

iPad with Apple keyboard I have found typing to be remarkably accurate but I’ve been limited by no multi document interfaces and no mouse support as gestures become tiring to work on large word or excel documents. Once app vendors create apps that support multi documents, it will change the iPad utility for the better. The current version of mouse support doesn’t Take away the problem of gestures.

Thank you - finally someone who actually talks about it objectively.

 

[Lalatoon]

I did a liveUSB install, so I think you should be fine.
Disable Microsoft's Secure Boot and rank USB storage first in the boot device order configuration. This is done in the UEFI (while booting press both power and volume up button until the UEFI interface shows up, may take 10-20 seconds).

Haven't tried another distro.

In that case, I think I will be buying one but I think not the Go but the pro. Thanks a lot.

 

[Lalatoon]

So you got a defective USB port and / or a defective keyboard and Windows 10 is garbage?

Call support for crying out loud.

Honestly - I don’t like working with Windows. But just like you, I’m forced to use it at work, which also includes me having to have it installed on bootcamp at home. Windows 10 may be uninspiring and the explorer looks like it hasn’t been updated since 1995. But I’ve used this on at least 20 different PCs over the last few years (we have PC and Laptop sharing at work) and they’ve all been absolutely rock solid. Windows 10 isn’t garbage. It’s just so freaking booooooring.

There are people out there that are die hard fans of Apple that they reject anything that is not Apple

They are too proud to admit that Windows is a very stable OS like macOS or in some case much better than macOS.
My first interaction with computer is with DOS then to Windows 3.1 until Windows 10. Then I worked with Debian based OS for a few years but haven't left Windows all the way since there are still apps I can only run with Windows and now I am on macOS for more than a month already. I am enjoying my experience with macOS because I feel at home because its Unix based system like Linux.

The truth is it didn't even cross my mind that I will be using a macOS. I always thought that macOS is a very limited OS because of its limited availability of apps specially in games and the hardware are too overpriced But here I am enjoying my time with macOS but I am not complaining or spouting rubbish ideas about how crap Windows OS is because if I do so I am just fooling my self.

Like I said, some people are just too proud to admit that Windows is as good as macOS or much better in some aspect that they will exaggerate things or even lie about their experience with Windows and they are just fooling their self. A little bit childish if I may say so. Same story with iOS and Android OS

 

[Shirasaki]

Completely false. The majority of computer users don’t need very specific software or use cases. The majority of people need a computer for email, browsing, media consumption, managing photos and video, stuff like that. iPad is by far better at all of those things than the junk Go.
[doublepost=1563117811][/doublepost]

We disagree. That’s okay too. You may need those legacy attributes, but many people have moved on and don’t. There’s room for both, but they are indeed legacy.



I get that. There’s a ton of people who can’t use an iPad, but forward thinking individuals and companies are moving away from your dated point of view. I’m happy to be looking toward the future instead of hanging onto the past.
[doublepost=1563118139][/doublepost]

I totally understand your perspective. It is NOT for everyone, but it certainly doesn’t diminish my workflow and abilities as being somehow lesser than those who need the legacy things you mention.

Thanks for your reply. Here’s some of my afterthoughts.
It is crystal clear that we are experiencing a clash of several distinct Trends of workflow here. One of them is people like me rely on “legacy” external storage device, full file system support and “legacy” desktop software to get the job done. Another is people get their job done using only basic online solutions (including email and limited use of cloud storage) and nothing much else. Another trend is people meeting their deadline with full support from cloud based solutions, such as cloud storage. Time will tell which workflow will eventually evolve into the next mainstream ones, though I think trends will emerge into a hybrid one: a bit of cloud computing and a bit of “legacy” computing (external drive and local processing).

Oh yeah, a Mac can easily last 6 years. My 2014 MBA is on its 5th year.....no problems. My son used an MBA through middle school and high school...7 years. And, those were 7 rough years. My daughter got her MBA for college and it is still going strong after 4 years of school and 2 years of work. If you primarily use your Mac in desktop mode, you can probably get well over 6 years.

The thing is, those MacBooks are built before 2016 or 2015, which are pretty much the best built MacBook as of today. For 2016 model, I doubt it lasts 3 years without any major problem, even minus keyboard issue. We are not even talking about 2017, 2018, 2019 model. So, does 2016 mac last 6 years till 2022? We shall see.

None of my windows laptops lasted longer than 2 years. Plagued with hardware and software issues.

You are probably not using Windows right. /s
My windows laptop lasts 4 years already and it still works, albeit a bit slow. Windows 10 with 1803 update. I bet you are using Windows 10 Home/Pro with 1808/1905 right?

 

[Tech198]

I agree, the kickstand on the Surface is a plus. but for Apple the battery is better like on any Apple product.

I would have preferred a bezel-less iPad (if Apple can ever finally get an iSight camera behind the display).

 

[DNichter]

Ive already said multiple times that there will be people that will be able to get away with just using a tablet. What i'm saying is Tablets are nowhere near being ready to replace a laptop for the majority of people, most of it due to software limitations. I guess i should have been more clear that i'm referring to the professional sector more than your everyday joe at home on you Tube.

That’s totally fine and I agree with the professional sector, but that’s not the bulk of computer users.
[doublepost=1563181999][/doublepost]

Well, me and you has different take on what legacy is. I don't know what you're understanding of legacy is but with my experience in electronics and software programming what I learned is legacy means products that are no longer in development life cycle. Meaning they will not be updated or upgraded anymore and there will be no new releases for this products. External storage and sd card are still being actively being developed and new products are being release this means that this are not legacy products. One example is you can buy now external ssd that are 3d NAND and maybe there is already 1 TB sd card.

To be honest I really don't get your idea about legacy when it comes tech products. Its just like you are saying that mouse and keyboard are legacy products because of touchscreen inputs. I think you misunderstood what legacy means when it comes to tech products.

Thats fair. We can call them anything really, but I am just referring to old input methods, peripherals, or paradigms that some are still holding onto all these years that aren’t necessary for most regular computer users today. For professionals who need it, there will always be a place, but it will only become less and less as people and companies move to the future.
[doublepost=1563182210][/doublepost]

Thanks for your reply. Here’s some of my afterthoughts.
It is crystal clear that we are experiencing a clash of several distinct Trends of workflow here. One of them is people like me rely on “legacy” external storage device, full file system support and “legacy” desktop software to get the job done. Another is people get their job done using only basic online solutions (including email and limited use of cloud storage) and nothing much else. Another trend is people meeting their deadline with full support from cloud based solutions, such as cloud storage. Time will tell which workflow will eventually evolve into the next mainstream ones, though I think trends will emerge into a hybrid one: a bit of cloud computing and a bit of “legacy” computing (external drive and local processing).

The thing is, those MacBooks are built before 2016 or 2015, which are pretty much the best built MacBook as of today. For 2016 model, I doubt it lasts 3 years without any major problem, even minus keyboard issue. We are not even talking about 2017, 2018, 2019 model. So, does 2016 mac last 6 years till 2022? We shall see.

You are probably not using Windows right. /s
My windows laptop lasts 4 years already and it still works, albeit a bit slow. Windows 10 with 1803 update. I bet you are using Windows 10 Home/Pro with 1808/1905 right?

I think that’s a good point and I’m sure it will ultimately result in a mix, but I’d have to think the cloud based solutions will win out in the end as our connected life improves in speed, reliability, and overall acceptability in the workforce.

 

[Shirasaki]

I think that’s a good point and I’m sure it will ultimately result in a mix, but I’d have to think the cloud based solutions will win out in the end as our connected life improves in speed, reliability, and overall acceptability in the workforce.

One major grip of cloud computing is the risk of putting data on someone else’s computer. No matter how cloud computing service providers tout their offerings, the fact that your data is no longer solely under your control irks me still. If this is the sacrifice we have to pay to enjoy the convenience, some would not want to pay the price.
With all that being said, iPad still has tons of internal storage for people who needs them (1TB). Surface Go can attach to all sorts of USB drives and such to achieve the same. Users just need to keep that point above in mind.
It’s been a pleasure to start this discussion with you. Have a nice day.

 

[maflynn]

I had an erroneous assumption that since Surface Go ran full Windows 10 that it could be a laptop replacement and I could use it to replace a laptop during travel.

The short answer is no it didn’t replace my laptop for productivity. I was limited in the following ways:
1. The keyboard on Surface Go is slightly smaller than usual size and it flexes quite a bit increasing the amount of typing errors I made;
2. It was quite slow even with MS office apps multitasking was quite draining;
3. Full windows 10 apps don’t work well in tablet mode.

iPad with Apple keyboard I have found typing to be remarkably accurate but I’ve been limited by no multi document interfaces and no mouse support as gestures become tiring to work on large word or excel documents. Once app vendors create apps that support multi documents, it will change the iPad utility for the better. The current version of mouse support doesn’t Take away the problem of gestures.

This news thread is odd, because I don't think you can use either product as a laptop replacement. Both iPads and Go have made decision decisions that limit one's ability to get rid of the laptop in lieu of said tablet

Here's my thoughts on some of the other points you put fourth:
Technically the Go can run the full windows, it's running windows S out of the box, but you can freely upgrade to windows home and for a small fee even go with windows professional if you wish.

I don't think the Surface Go is aimed, or marketed as a laptop replacement (the surface pro is), which makes this topic here at MR all the more questionable. There's too many sacrifices in the name of size and price. I'm considering the Go, though mostly though the iPad Pro is the inside favorite - not as a laptop replacement but a device to supplement my laptop. I'd rather bring a tablet then a full laptop to my meetings and since I have a computer in the office, I'll commute with the tablet then my laptop.

1. I can't comment on the keyboard as I don't own one and I'll defer to your judgement.
2. Performance and multitasking is understandably "pokey" given the Pentium gold processor, but if you understand that it is a pentium and you're not looking to run intensive apps. I think its do able.
3. Full windows apps? Do you mean win32? Yeah, I can see that being a problem. One major reason why I'm leaning heavily towards an iPad Pro over the Surface Go, is the tablet experience, nothing can beat what we have for iOS. If you're looking to run the Go like a laptop for some things, and tablet for another and not use it as a replacement but to supplement then I think the Go offers a compelling case.

In short, I think there's a usage scenario for the Go, but MS certainly did cheap out on the processor, and if you opted for the 64GB variant, its using really slow storage, you need to go with the 128GB at a minimum.

For me, like I said the iPad Pro is probably the tablet I'm leaning towards on using but I may hold off until the

 

[tito2020]

If you can deal with Windows, the Surface is probably fine. If not, then there isn't even a comparison.

Surface is the best has very fast face reginition .

 

[chucker23n1]

Hell no, besides the CPU only being tweaked almost everything else the 10.5 Pro is better so no the Air 3 is not a tweaked version of the Pro.

It's kind of a mixed bag.

The CPU itself is 22% faster at single-core and dual-core, but Metal is 39% slower.

It comes with a better LTE modem and newer Bluetooth.

Its speaker system, display, and camera are all worse.

And it's $150 less.

"Tweaked" seems just the right word to me.
[doublepost=1563189881][/doublepost]

I don't think the Surface Go is aimed, or marketed as a laptop replacement (the surface pro is), which makes this topic here at MR all the more questionable.

Sure, but neither is the iPad Air.

Now if MR were comparing the Surface Go with the iPad Pro, that'd be quite weird.

 

[macfan90]

iPad > Surface

Cosmetic annoyance- The iPad should be on the left side. Like the title, reading left to right.

 

[0388631]

Neither. Both are toys.


If I were forced to buy a Surface, I'd prefer to get the Surface Pro 6 or the Laptop 2.

They were Toshiba and Dell and Sony (My last 3 laptops). Well the Sony cost a bit more actually. However my MBA only cost £700 and the full retail price was £750. The laptops were all sold to me as midrange devices by the sales assistants. On each occasion I was willing to spend up to £1,000 but when I told the assistant what I wanted to use it for they recommended these midrange devices. When I bought the MBA they tried to sell me a cheaper windows machine, telling me I didn’t need to spend that much based on what I needed to do.

On the other hand, I have a Toshiba from 2006 I upgraded with an SSD that works flawlessly today. I keep it in the garage to look up info when I'm working on something at the bench or doing repairs I could without taking ours cars to the dealer. Battery is shot, obviously, but the laptop hums along nicely on Windows 7. Screen looks good, keyboard is in shape. It's probably spent 10,000 hours in ON time so far.

Meanwhile, in Mac land, I've had more software and hardware issues with MacBook Pros in a 12 year time span than I care for. Anecdotes are just that.

 

[DNichter]

One major grip of cloud computing is the risk of putting data on someone else’s computer. No matter how cloud computing service providers tout their offerings, the fact that your data is no longer solely under your control irks me still. If this is the sacrifice we have to pay to enjoy the convenience, some would not want to pay the price.
With all that being said, iPad still has tons of internal storage for people who needs them (1TB). Surface Go can attach to all sorts of USB drives and such to achieve the same. Users just need to keep that point above in mind.
It’s been a pleasure to start this discussion with you. Have a nice day.

I am not sure that necessarily needs to be the case. I work for a $15B+ company and we are moving to make our tools web based so that anyone within our organization can access our information safely through any computer, using security tools baked into most modern devices today. This is more so what I meant. When it comes to personal data, I get the concern, but I think we are only improving when it comes to security around this sort of thing and as long as the individual takes the proper steps to secure their data - it's difficult to be breached. I suppose I am biased though as I have moved to cloud computing years ago without issue. I have a home server where I access all of my personal information from anywhere. It has been a huge help in moving to iPad/iOS only. Same to you, always nice to have a solid discussion on these forums - it's refreshing.

 

[engbren]

This news thread is odd, because I don't think you can use either product as a laptop replacement. Both iPads and Go have made decision decisions that limit one's ability to get rid of the laptop in lieu of said tablet

Here's my thoughts on some of the other points you put fourth:
Technically the Go can run the full windows, it's running windows S out of the box, but you can freely upgrade to windows home and for a small fee even go with windows professional if you wish.

I don't think the Surface Go is aimed, or marketed as a laptop replacement (the surface pro is), which makes this topic here at MR all the more questionable. There's too many sacrifices in the name of size and price. I'm considering the Go, though mostly though the iPad Pro is the inside favorite - not as a laptop replacement but a device to supplement my laptop. I'd rather bring a tablet then a full laptop to my meetings and since I have a computer in the office, I'll commute with the tablet then my laptop.

1. I can't comment on the keyboard as I don't own one and I'll defer to your judgement.
2. Performance and multitasking is understandably "pokey" given the Pentium gold processor, but if you understand that it is a pentium and you're not looking to run intensive apps. I think its do able.
3. Full windows apps? Do you mean win32? Yeah, I can see that being a problem. One major reason why I'm leaning heavily towards an iPad Pro over the Surface Go, is the tablet experience, nothing can beat what we have for iOS. If you're looking to run the Go like a laptop for some things, and tablet for another and not use it as a replacement but to supplement then I think the Go offers a compelling case.

In short, I think there's a usage scenario for the Go, but MS certainly did cheap out on the processor, and if you opted for the 64GB variant, its using really slow storage, you need to go with the 128GB at a minimum.

For me, like I said the iPad Pro is probably the tablet I'm leaning towards on using but I may hold off until the

You’re quite right - I have the 64gb Surface Go model which is slower than the 128gb model. The 128gb model has full ssd as well as 8gb RAM which may make the experience slightly better. I have found neither Surface Go or iPad are perfect for laptop replacement yet.

As a supplementary device, the iPad is great. You can do many light editing tasks with ease. On travel, especially in economy, I’ve found the iPad far better than a laptop since the moment the person in front reclines, your laptop is toast. The iPad being designed with touch in mind shines here compared to Surface Go which becomes a usability nightmare even with MS Office apps. It really is designed to be used with keyboard and trackpad/mouse with touch being a supplementary input method.

The iPad really shines with its touch first approach. iPados is taking it further with the new swype style keyboard and smaller keyboard you can position anywhere. It makes the use cases you need the Apple Smart Keyboard even fewer and maximises the screen real estate while editing docs.

Heavy duty editing is possible on iPad but remains a frustrating experience. Something that will likely resolve over time with the evolution of iPados.

 

[cats4jan]

There is nothing wrong with replacing a laptop with a tablet - depends on the user.

Some of you are making the assumption that all users want to run complicated applications. I live in a 55+ community and many of the people I talk to are looking for a replacement so they can keep up with their family's lives. They need something for reading emails, looking at photos in their emails or on social media. They need to occasionally buy something on the 'net. They keep their responses to few word sentences because they don't know how to type, so they don't need a keyboard. They spend only a small portion of their day on computers. Speed is not a factor because they haven't opted for higher speed connections, etc.

(Please don't tell me there are plenty of savvy "older" users and age is not a factor when making this decision - I'm not talking about those users.)

For these users, like those I talk to daily, a tablet will do all they need it to do. A laptop or desktop is overkill. Plus, a tablet is portable.

Now comes the tricky part. I love my iPad, but if one is going to pay $700 for a tablet, then one may as well buy a cheap desktop or laptop running Windows. It's not as portable as a tablet, but it will be more versatile and cheaper than buying an iPad. Having no experience with tablets other than iPads, I can't comment on the comparison of tablets, but if price is the one of the factors (and for these type of users, it mainly is), then an iPad is a pricey replacement.

So, the primary question one needs to ask before making recommendations is - what will you be doing on your tablet/laptop/desktop? The answer may well be you don't need a laptop/desktop any more and a cheapy tablet may be all you need.

 

[Winni]

One gets Malware, Viruses, Cryptolocker and your favorite spyware. The other is an iPad.

So in other words, one is a real computer with a real computer operating system, the other is a crippled consumption device that only installs software from one source. That alone is a killer argument against the iPad -- especially when you actually want a COMPUTER, not some tablet that pretends to be a computer. You know, some people actually WRITE their own software and scripts and do TECHNICAL stuff with their devices -- but those people are by definition not the target audience for iOS.

The Microsoft Surface has an interesting use case: Since it's categorized as a tablet, you never have to turn it off on a plane -- and you can still run REAL software on it, not just some limited "apps". I actually work with people who bought a Surface for this reason alone.

Other than that, you'd rather buy one of the bigger Surface models, not the entry level Surface Go, when you actually want to use it as your laptop (replacement).

Now what's the best replacement for my Dell XPS laptop? Simple: The next XPS generation. I don't see any real competition -- especially not when I want to run Linux on it, which is relevant for my work.
[doublepost=1563196122][/doublepost]

Neither is a laptop replacement or marketed as such. They both are for basic stuff but heavily underpowered to be considered laptop replacements.

Surface pro 6 vs iPad Pro, those are marketed as laptop replacements and at the level these comparisons should be made.

Correct. And at that level, it should be quite obvious that only the Surface Pro can run the same software that the regular laptop can run...

 

[maflynn]

As a supplementary device, the iPad is great. You can do many light editing tasks with ease. On travel, especially in economy, I’ve found the iPad far better than a laptop since the moment the person in front reclines, your laptop is toast. The iPad being designed with touch in mind shines here compared to Surface Go which becomes a usability nightmare even with MS Office apps. It really is designed to be used with keyboard and trackpad/mouse with touch being a supplementary input method.

Oh no question and I see myself using either the Go or the iPad as a tablet and comparing apples to apples, the iPad simply the best touch first tablet out on the market. What may draw me into the Go, is the fact it runs full desktop apps. OneNote is better and more feature rich in windows the iOS, but I've been trying to like OneNote, and I just can't. I've been using notability on the iPad and so far that does everything I need it to do.

 

[chucker23n1]

So in other words, one is a real computer with a real computer operating system

The "Real People Use A Real Computer™" trope was tired five years ago.

Most people don't need a "real computer with a real computer operating system". If you do, that doesn't make you more hardcore than them. It just means you have different requirements.

 

[Darth Tulhu]

I see these devices as laptop replacements for people who don't need a laptop.

It really is that simple.

My mother still uses her 1st gen iPad Air (since 2013!) as a primary device, now in combination with an iPhone 8.

I know people that ONLY use their iPhone as a computing device.

Steve Jobs NAILED this with his analogy of cars and trucks way back: