iPad as a laptop replacement

[PandaPunch]

My view of it is, the iPad is a computer. I view most consumer electronics as a computer. From the more basic single purpose computers like older gaming systems or MP3 players to desktops and everything beyond and in between.

What I think is more important than "power" or processors is the form factor of your computer. Desktops and laptops are designed to be used with ~100 key keyboards and mice that give you precise selection. They are meant to be used on desks where you can be comfortable for long study or work sessions. The 3 to 4 button iPad was not designed to replace this, not without tacking on keyboards or mice onto it. The iPad can't be expected to replace your workstation anymore than your iPhone or Xbox can.

That said, my iPad is my main computer. A desktop or laptop form factor is nice when it's time for a more long term session or need a greater amount of precision. Otherwise I use my iPad for writing notes while on a phone call or use it for checking an order or my calendar, or maybe checking if I got any messages from my doctor, etc. The portability plus the large enough screen makes it perfect for that.

I believe the form factor makes or break it's usefulness in a given task. Like, you technically could walk down your local walking trail with your MacBook Air in hand with your headphones playing music. But the MacBook Air can't be put into your pocket like an iPhone, so it's not as suited for that. Just like you could technically write your next novel using only two thumbs on your iPhone with the Pages app but the form factor makes that uncomfortable.

 

[Arctic Moose]

I believe the form factor makes or break it's usefulness in a given task.

Except when the appropriate form factor has a ****ing useless OS. (In the context of the given task.)

 

[ericwn]

Except when the appropriate form factor has a ****ing useless OS. (In the context of the given task.)

That’s a bit of a stretch. The usefulness depends on the use case and what apps can support certain Workflows. Some may hit the limitations of iOS and some those of macOS while others will be fine.

 

[Poppleropples]

I’m slowly moving across to the iPad as my main computer and really impressed so far.

I run a couple of small businesses, don’t have a dedicated desk and I’m normally on the move, at home, in the shop, car, travelling etc. Cost is important to me and a couple of years ago I picked up a Chromebook as a lightweight on the go computer - Awful, terrible and poorly supported Android apps, flimsy hardware and the biggest deal breaker was Outlook, I have 5 email accounts and it just couldn’t cope.

I found myself not using the Chromebook and instead getting by with the iPhone, but it was difficult and I often had to put aside time on my ‘off’ days to get through work on the desktop Mac at home (emails, accounting, design work etc). Anyway I picked up the 9th gen iPad a few weeks ago and it’s completely changed how I work, this to me is a brilliant example of how technology can really help you work better and make life easier.

Native Mail is excellent, I have office apps on here that actually work, access to my work in Files, a Logitech BT keyboard and I’m loving the new multi tasking. I wanted to see how far I could push it earlier and had a go at some Photoshop design work (product labels) I’d normally use the desktop for - Finished off some new product labels whilst I had a quiet few hours in the shop on the iPad (able to load my own fonts as well, great!), brilliant. In the past I’d have to spend a couple of hours on my day ‘off’ to do this. I also find I’m generally more productive, I’m spending less time doom scrolling on social media on the phone, my iPhone daily average screen time has dropped from 7 hours to 2!

Can‘t completely ditch the desktop though as I need some fairly niche industry specific software but I can live with that 🙂

 

[PandaPunch]

That’s a bit of a stretch. The usefulness depends on the use case and what apps can support certain Workflows. Some may hit the limitations of iOS and some those of macOS while others will be fine.

And to add to this, a large amount of workflows and tasks are now browser based. Unless you absolutely need niche software, iPadOS is fine. Now that iPadOS has addressed the biggest issues like the file browser and desktop browsing by default, it's far from useless.

 

[Arctic Moose]

That’s a bit of a stretch. The usefulness depends on the use case and what apps can support certain Workflows. Some may hit the limitations of iOS and some those of macOS while others will be fine.

Hence the clarification regarding particular tasks. An iPad is a perfect form factor for air travel. The OS is fine for watching movies, listening to music or playing games. For getting actual work done though, it isn’t at all, at least not for me.

And to add to this, a large amount of workflows and tasks are now browser based. Unless you absolutely need niche software, iPadOS is fine. Now that iPadOS has addressed the biggest issues like the file browser and desktop browsing by default, it's far from useless.

Sure, if you consider clipboard managers, arbitrarily sized windows and scripting niche, I guess.

 

[PandaPunch]

Hence the clarification regarding particular tasks. An iPad is a perfect form factor for air travel. The OS is fine for watching movies, listening to music or playing games. For getting actual work done though, it isn’t at all, at least not for me.



Sure, if you consider clipboard managers, arbitrarily sized windows and scripting niche, I guess.

For someone like me, what you listed is niche. I love the app Anybuffer which is sorta a clipboard manager, and I keep it installed because it's useful to me, but I don't use it often. The iPad's habit of fullscreen apps is just like how I handle windows in Windows, 80% of the time it's a singular app at a time. And I don't program, so I can't say much there.

It's obvious that we have different workflows, because the iPad is fine for my workflows. I guess the question is, "What is work?".

 

[mrLucas]

Hence the clarification regarding particular tasks. An iPad is a perfect form factor for air travel. The OS is fine for watching movies, listening to music or playing games. For getting actual work done though, it isn’t at all, at least not for me.



Sure, if you consider clipboard managers, arbitrarily sized windows and scripting niche, I guess.

did you try it?

I ask becoase I maanage 20 servers, write php/python apps, do graphics design, use clipboard managers, and much more… I’m just wondering, did you even try? also, if you did, when did you try? how long ago?

Many of the tasks I described are actually better - more convinient on the ipad! And thats coming from a total superuser, that used all OSs (win, linux, macos) and runs an insane workstation powerhouse with 64 gigs of ram and 32 cores of raw processing power coupled with the best keyboard and mouse kn the planet, and three 27’ screens. yes, iPad is even more convinient for *some tasks.

 

[Arctic Moose]

It's obvious that we have different workflows, because the iPad is fine for my workflows. I guess the question is, "What is work?".

I did say “for me”, not “for everyone”.

I’m just wondering, did you even try? also, if you did, when did you try? how long ago?

I have had practically every iPad generation starting with the first one.

I use it daily.

Every now and then I’ll be sitting on the couch browsing or reading e-mail or whatever. Some task will come up, and I’ll start working on it on the iPad, feeling like I have one hand tied behind my back and a thick glove on the other.

Ten minutes in I’ll be ready to fling it at the wall, and realize I would have been done five minutes ago had I only switched to a Mac.

 

[PandaPunch]

I did say “for me”, not “for everyone”.



I have had practically every iPad generation starting with the first one.

I use it daily.

Every now and then I’ll be sitting on the couch browsing or reading e-mail or whatever. Some task will come up, and I’ll start working on it on the iPad, feeling like I have one hand tied behind my back and a thick glove on the other.

Ten minutes in I’ll be ready to fling it at the wall, and realize I would have been done five minutes ago had I only switched to a Mac.

I know you said that. But it's beyond obvious that you favor Macs over the iPad. There's nothing wrong with that in the slightest. Just like there's nothing wrong with you viewing the iPad as mostly a toy. But what I tend to notice in these discussions are people who clearly prefer the desktop or laptop yet they seem to put so much effort into trying to fit the iPad into their life.

Sounds like your life would be simpler if you did just used your Mac for your productivity instead of fighting your iPad to match your personal workflow.

 

[Arctic Moose]

Sounds like your life would be simpler if you did just used your Mac for your productivity instead of fighting your iPad to match your personal workflow.

I fully agree with you on that.

The only problem is that there are so many situations where the iPad is the perfect form factor, and not being able to use it makes me sad. (Also, I often end up carrying two devices, which isn’t practical.)

If Apple releases a laptop remotely similar to a modern take on the 11” MBA I probably wouldn’t buy another iPad.

 

[Mainsail]

Every now and then I’ll be sitting on the couch browsing or reading e-mail or whatever. Some task will come up, and I’ll start working on it on the iPad, feeling like I have one hand tied behind my back and a thick glove on the other.

Ten minutes in I’ll be ready to fling it at the wall, and realize I would have been done five minutes ago had I only switched to a Mac.

Yeah. I have done the same thing.

I have just decided to go laptop for productivity and tablet for casual computing. It's eliminated a lot of frustration.

 

[mrLucas]

I fully agree with you on that.

The only problem is that there are so many situations where the iPad is the perfect form factor, and not being able to use it makes me sad. (Also, I often end up carrying two devices, which isn’t practical.)

If Apple releases a laptop remotely similar to a modern take on the 11” MBA I probably wouldn’t buy another iPad.

hm. from what I read I agree… you shouldnt really be using an ipad.
youre the wrong customer for it. I think - as a rule of thumb, if you can say that MBA could replace your iPad - than youre not an iPad customer.

For me, MBA cant replace my ipad. I couldnt do, what I do on an ipad in an MBA.
Just like my iPad cant replace my desktop.

 

[mrLucas]

I did say “for me”, not “for everyone”.



I have had practically every iPad generation starting with the first one.

I use it daily.

Every now and then I’ll be sitting on the couch browsing or reading e-mail or whatever. Some task will come up, and I’ll start working on it on the iPad, feeling like I have one hand tied behind my back and a thick glove on the other.

Ten minutes in I’ll be ready to fling it at the wall, and realize I would have been done five minutes ago had I only switched to a Mac.

so.. you didnt try.
you should try thou.. but keep in mind iPad is not a Mac. Things are done differently


wanted to write this, but it seems you just want to use the ipad, but have no real use for it. for instance, for me its a combination of a formfactor and having a pen to draw. Also, I like the simplicity of ipadOS. And games.


I also dont get how some of you call Macbooks ‘productivity machines’. Thats kinda funny to me… and it might be the reason I view iPad in a better light than you. You legitematley think an iPad could replace your Mac and are dissapointed that it doesnt fully. I never expected iPad to replace my desktop. Just like I dont consider a laptop a serious work computer. To me, iPads are more usefull than one would guess… as I said, some things - work related - I actually find more enjoyable… and generally I actually like the OS.

but to each its own

 

[Davelfc]

I picked up a cheap (£117) magic keyboard for my iPad 2021. The keyboard is the 2020 version but works perfectly. Since I bought it (about a month ago) I have picked up my MacBook Pro…. once. If it wasn’t for a very few particular tasks that the MacBook can do, I would be looking to sell it.

So for me, the ipad and magic keyboard almost replace my MacBook. I get that there will be many people for whom it won’t.

 

[Arctic Moose]

so.. you didnt try.

What should I have done differently?

wanted to write this, but it seems you just want to use the ipad, but have no real use for it.

I'm not sure if I can state this any more explicitly, but I will try.

I love the iPad form factor, and a WANT to use it, but I CANNOT do so effectively because the OS is limiting for the WORK I DO in the WAY I DO IT.

The AS dev kit was practically an iPad, and the new iPad Pro is practically a MacBook, so obviously it is purely a software limitation.

I also dont get how some of you call Macbooks ‘productivity machines’. Thats kinda funny to me…

Depending on the task of course, I am generally significantly more productive on my 5K+4K+4K with Apple Extended Keyboard II and a decent mouse than I am with a MacBook on the couch, but I am also typically much more productive on a MacBook than an iPad.

I'd say the jump from the iPad to the MacBook is much, much greater than the jump from laptop to desktop.

You legitematley think an iPad could replace your Mac and are dissapointed that it doesnt fully.

I have never ever stated anything like this. I just wish the iPad could do a lot more than it can, because the potential is there.

I actually find more enjoyable… and generally I actually like the OS.

That's great, and I am happy for you.

 

[secretk]

Every now and then I’ll be sitting on the couch browsing or reading e-mail or whatever. Some task will come up, and I’ll start working on it on the iPad, feeling like I have one hand tied behind my back and a thick glove on the other.

Ten minutes in I’ll be ready to fling it at the wall, and realize I would have been done five minutes ago had I only switched to a Mac.

I feel similarly. I am not a power user but it seems that the few things I do are niche or specific enough to not be enjoyable on an iPad. For one the typing experience on the iPad I have (11 inch iPad Pro) is inferior compared to the one I have on my laptop (15.6). On top of it typing experience while in bed with hardware keyboard (because I hate on screen keyboard as it slows me down) is just superior on laptop compared to the iPad.

Then sometimes some small things come up - like sucky RAM management. iPadOS is way too aggressive in loading tabs and closing apps. I quite often experience this when multitasking and switching between apps.

Writing emails (formatting, attaching files etc) is also more enjoyable on laptop compared to an iPad. I cannot explain it but just the whole workflow on an iPad when it comes to this feels clunky and unnatural for me. And working with text in general - like editing, copying, pasting is PITA on iOS. It really is not enjoyable experience.

One last thing that I enjoy on my laptop - browsing in general. Both my laptop and the iPad I have use WIFI 11ac. However I assume my laptop being bigger has more antennas than the iPad. As a result browsing experience is faster on my computer than on the iPad. This is just a small thing but interestingly even my mother (who is not a power user at all) appreciates fast internet speed and connection.

That being said iPad for me shines with its Apple Pencil and this is how I separate my devices. It is also useful for consumption in bed (watching movies or listening to podcasts). I am at a point where when I travel home to visit my parents during vacation I bring only my iPad and leave the laptop at home. When it comes to business trips however I still have to bring both my work laptop and the iPad (for the sake of personal enjoyment in the hotel after work). That is normal though because my work is such (Manager of Software Development teams) that is not exactly advertised for an iPad workflow. So no surprise there.

 

[PandaPunch]

hm. from what I read I agree… you shouldnt really be using an ipad.
youre the wrong customer for it. I think - as a rule of thumb, if you can say that MBA could replace your iPad - than youre not an iPad customer.

For me, MBA cant replace my ipad. I couldnt do, what I do on an ipad in an MBA.
Just like my iPad cant replace my desktop.

I wouldn't go that far, it's clear that Arctic Moose does enjoy the iPad and they've acknowledged that it's fine for entertainment. Main issue is that it clashes with their workflow.

But I will agree, there are quite a few people who will never "get" the iPad. And that's fine.

 

[Arctic Moose]

For one the typing experience on the iPad I have (11 inch iPad Pro) is inferior compared to the one I have on my laptop (15.6). On top of it typing experience while in bed with hardware keyboard (because I hate on screen keyboard as it slows me down) is just superior on laptop compared to the iPad.

Yeah, I feel the typing experience has become much worse in recent years, I'm wondering if it is all the ML experimenting messing it up.

As a result browsing experience is faster on my computer than on the iPad.

Same here, but my Macs are hardwired (installed dual Cat-6A STP in every room during a recent remodeling) directly to the router serving Gbit fiber, so my latency for commonly used resources hovers around 5-6 ms. It makes a huge difference for the perceived speed.

fine for entertainment

And web browsing, reading news feeds, managing deliveries, paying bills, checking in on security systems, managing HomeKit, ssh to other systems, writing drafts, recording voice memos, video calling, maps and directions, looking at photos and reading e-mail.

However, just now I needed to reply to an e-mail, include quoted sections from two other e-mails, and copy three of seven addresses from these other e-mails. That was a major chore, something that literally takes a second or two on a Mac.

 

[mrLucas]

What should I have done differently?



I'm not sure if I can state this any more explicitly, but I will try.

I love the iPad form factor, and a WANT to use it, but I CANNOT do so effectively because the OS is limiting for the WORK I DO in the WAY I DO IT.

The AS dev kit was practically an iPad, and the new iPad Pro is practically a MacBook, so obviously it is purely a software limitation.

No, no its not. iPad is not a Macbook. And as soon as you accept it, as soon you willl find ways to do what you want in it and enjoy it, iPad is an iPad. If you expect iPad to be a Macbook, you will be dissapointer, just like you will be diseapointer if you expect your macbook to be an ipad. Theres your problem. You are too proud, and prejudice towards the ipad.

Thats why I said you didnt try. Since you didnt. What you did try, from what I understand. is try to do things THE MAC WAY on the ipad. Thats a no no. You have to do things the iPad way, in the iPad.

If you are a poweruser, you need to think if ipad, as if its a completely new device, a new type of computer (which it is), and approach it as if you know nothing. This is hard for some, and it seems hard for you. You have to be humbke enought to forget the old ways of doing things, and find ans embrace the new ones.


Most things can be done on an iPad, and quite enjoyabley. But you have to find how, your ipad is not your mac. And dont expect it to be.

 

[mrLucas]

Heres bonus two examples.

1. I wanted to edit hosts file, so I can acces a webiste I am developing. Can this be done on an iPad? Can you edit hosts file? No.
Can you thou? Yes, yes you can. But the iPad way. And the way is to run an app that does DNS cloaking. But effectively its the same, you make a hosts file and load it up, and it works.
In fact, you could even argue that its better than on a mac, sicne you have a start and stop button. So acctually switching between cloaking active and cloaking not active, is even faster and more convinient than on a mac. This is somehting I didnt expect to find, but I didnt cry - “I cant edit hosts file with nano /etc/hosts” but I googled and found a way - an app that does it, thats actually more convinient than on a mac (it takes 2 swipes, or 0,3 sec to start it or stop it).
So thats just an example - how on iPad - you have to do things the ipad way. You have to be humble and forget everything you know, and let ipad show it how its done on it. Relearn it.

2. The other example is, when facebook was down, I wanted to ping it, and ti di a nameservers search from terinal. This is quite easily done on a mac, you fire terminal and type two commands, and that‘s it. But can it be done on an iPad?

Yes, yes it can. But again, theres an iPad way of doing it. How do you do it? Well the ’terminal‘ is called ’iSH’ and you have to download it form the ipad pacage manager, called appstore. When you do, you just run iSH and type your commands. Easy.


The point is, iPad is way more capable than one would assume.
You do have to approach it differently, since it is a different computing experience.

you have to be humble enought to approach it as if you know nothing. and if you do, you’ll find out you can do everything on it.


___
Thats my experience at least.

 

[mrLucas]

To sumarize:

WORK I DO in the WAY I DO IT.

This is why its not working for you.
You shouldnt expect that. Its just s different computing experience. A new one.

 

[mrLucas]

I have never ever stated anything like this. I just wish the iPad could do a lot more than it can, because the potential is there.

I agree, generally. But I perosnally have not found one thing I need I cant do on an ipad (other than architecure).
For that - I just count it not possible at the moment.

What are the specific things you want to do on the iPad but cant? Id like to see if I want to do that as well, and or if I can find a way. Theres still a couple of small quirks I find anoying but less with each update.

 

[Arctic Moose]

No, no its not. iPad is not a Macbook.

Hardware-wise it is.

If Apple wanted to allow macOS on it they could do so with a simple flip of a switch.

I am not saying they should, but I am saying that after 11 years iPadOS is still missing so many features that it is embarrassing.

Thats why I said you didnt try. Since you didnt. What you did try, from what I understand. is try to do things THE MAC WAY on the ipad. Thats a no no. You have to do things the iPad way, in the iPad.

Ok, great. Please explain how I would accomplish the e-mail task detailed above the iPad way.

If you are a poweruser, you need to think if ipad, as if its a completely new device, a new type of computer (which it is), and approach it as if you know nothing. This is hard for some, and it seems hard for you. You have to be humbke enought to forget the old ways of doing things, and find ans embrace the new ones.

I could respond to this, but I would be repeating myself. Again.

This is somehting I didnt expect to find, but I didnt cry - “I cant edit hosts file with nano /etc/hosts” but I googled and found a way - an app that does it, thats actually more convinient than on a mac (it takes 2 swipes, or 0,3 sec to start it or stop it).
So thats just an example - how on iPad - you have to do things the ipad way. You have to be humble and forget everything you know, and let ipad show it how its done on it. Relearn it.

Sure, there are apps for tons of stuff. Many of them contain all sorts of rubbish, from tracking and analytics to downright scams, not to mention how many garbage apps you have to wade through to find one that actually does what you want it to. Researching is difficult because the scammers are pretty good at SEO.

A Mac has pretty much everything I need it to have out of the box, except for Drafts and Pastebot. (Oh, and NetNewsWire, since Apple ripped RSS support from Safari.)

Which of course brings to mind the best example of all the missing iPad features, a ****ing calculator. ATP recently had an interesting segment on all the scam calculator apps, and how difficult it is for a normal user to get a decent one if you haven't been told to just download PCalc. It is truly mind-boggling.

The other example is, when facebook was down, I wanted to ping it, and ti di a nameservers search from terinal. This is quite easily done on a mac, you fire terminal and type two commands, and that‘s it. But can it be done on an iPad?

Yes, yes it can. But again, theres an iPad way of doing it. How do you do it? Well the ’terminal‘ is called ’iSH’ and you have to download it form the ipad pacage manager, called appstore. When you do, you just run iSH and type your commands. Easy.

Once again, the "iPad way" is to download and install something from a developer you need to research and decide to trust.

I have decided to do so in this case because of the utility it provides, and use iSH every day. I am not happy about the lack of a first-party solution though. Ask me how thrilled I am about trusting joe-random-developer with my RSA private key?

Also, iSH is far from a replacement.

It only has access to its own sandbox root, which means I cannot use ls to sort or filter folder contents of my iCloud Drive or OneDrive, and need to use the useless file listing capabilities in these apps instead.

(I know, I know, do it the "iPad way" and download Midnight Commander or something. Have you seen the garbage SEO pages that searching for "iPadOS file manager" results in?)

you have to be humble enought to approach it as if you know nothing. and if you do, you’ll find out you can do everything on it.

Ok, I'll start you off with a few challenges:

1. You arrive at the location where you are expected to hold your presentation. Once there, you find that the projector only has HDMI input, but the audio is analog-only. Of course you have your HDMI dongle, but you do not have a spare Apple TV, Airport Express or dongle for HDMI analog audio extraction, and there is no time to get one. You just go into the audio settings and choose the headphone jack as your audio out, and everything just works, right? Right? Oh, it doesn't? What is the iPad way?
   
2. You are enjoying a podcast or music while browsing a web page that has an embedded youtube video. You want to see the video, but do not want your audio to pause, and you definitely don't want to have to restarted it manually when the video is done playing. And naturally you don't want to do this when you do a quick check-in on Ring to see who is at the door only to find out it was a bird either. How do you solve this the iPad way?
   
3. You have an mp3 that is not in your Music library, and not available from the iTunes store. You just import it, right? Drag and drop? Swipe? There must be some gesture, right? Let me guess, download Infuse Pro or something?
   
4. Your kids are dancing to the music playing from the iPad on the living room Airplay 2 speakers. Of course you want to grab a quick video of it. This works, right? No? What's the iPad way? Go find some other device than the one you have in your hand?

I agree, generally. But I perosnally have not found one thing I need I cant do on an ipad (other than architecure).
For that - I just count it not possible at the moment.

No Xcode is a pretty big ****ing asterix for any developer asking "can an iPad replace my laptop" which is literally the topic of this thread.

This is why its not working for you.
You shouldnt expect that. Its just s different computing experience. A new one.

Why not? There is no good reason for so many of the limitations. It is not effective to have separate workflows for the same task, and workflows should transfer seamlessly between devices when it is practically possible given the form factor’s inherent constraints. The iPad could do so much more.

Sure, for someone who only has work that is possible to complete in an effective way (or at all) using an iPad, and is willing and able to go iPad-only, it makes sense to develop and master entirely new workflows. For anyone else, not so much.

 

[sparksd]

I agree, generally. But I perosnally have not found one thing I need I cant do on an ipad (other than architecure).
For that - I just count it not possible at the moment.

What are the specific things you want to do on the iPad but cant? Id like to see if I want to do that as well, and or if I can find a way. Theres still a couple of small quirks I find anoying but less with each update.

Here's one that I want and Arctic Moose has mentioned - get an mp3 music file into the music library without iTunes.