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All of this discussion stems from the simple poor naming of the product.

iPad Plus, nobody would be raising such a ruckus.
Pro on the other hand has a lot connected with it. Slapping on stylus support and some sub woofers doesn't make it suddenly a Pro device. It's like sticking Go Faster stripes on your Fiat 500 and telling everyone it could replace their Ferrari.
 
The name "Pro" does follow suite with other Apple products. What's "PRO" about the Mac Book pro ? Isn't just a slightly bigger screen, higher resolution and faster processor?

What is Pro about the Surface Pro? To me a Surface is certainly not a Windows Workstation class computer. There is nothing Pro about a Surface Pro.
 
Well you could argue that you can't breathe Macbook Air either ;)
LOL

What's "PRO" about the Mac Book pro ? Isn't just a slightly bigger screen, higher resolution and faster processor?

Wasn't Macbook Pro a clearly defined break from the MacBook? A device that had the processor power, dedicated graphics - upgradable Ram - back in the day, extra ports etc.. A workhorse for professionals.

The Macbook is a cut down, underpowered and overpriced device for.... Well to be replaced by the iPad Plus I suppose.

The iPad Plus is indeed a faster iPad with a bigger screen. But so far it seems to be a bigger consumption device. Great for watching movies and reading magazines. It does nothing more than the iPad Air / mini and nobody yet has come up with anything Pro about it.

The Surface Pro it could be argued is a device for professionals. It has more than enough horsepower to run full desktop apps and crunch through pretty much anything you throw at it. It can also be placed in any work environment.
 
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I will add this.

It was a very bold move for Apple to produce a larger iPad in Silver, Space Grey AND Gold.

I was sure they'd hold off on Gold as next years upgrade. Kinda shot themselves in the foot there.
 
So something can only have the "pro" moniker if it runs x86 apps? If people really believe the iPad Pro is just a bigger screen then they're not really thinking about the future. Maybe that's what it is right now for the most part but it's a brand new product. Who says that's what it's going to be 2, 3 or 5 years from now? The software isn't even coming close to taxing the hardware and it's not like the hardware is going to stand still. Apple now has a platform for making iOS and the apps that run on it more powerful.
 
LOL



Wasn't Macbook Pro a clearly defined break from the MacBook? A device that had the processor power, dedicated graphics - upgradable Ram - back in the day, extra ports etc.. A workhorse for professionals.

The Macbook is a cut down, underpowered and overpriced device for.... Well to be replaced by the iPad Plus I suppose.

The iPad Plus is indeed a faster iPad with a bigger screen. But so far it seems to be a bigger consumption device. Great for watching movies and reading magazines. It does nothing more than the iPad Air / mini and nobody yet has come up with anything Pro about it.

The Surface Pro it could be argued is a device for professionals. It has more than enough horsepower to run full desktop apps and crunch through pretty much anything you throw at it. It can also be placed in any work environment.

Of course you know you are wrong. The iPad Pro can work with the Pencil, where the other iPads can not. To me that was enough for me to buy one. Also it's a much faster iPad, so the name Pro in the apple sense is fitting. I have had mine now for a little over a week, and have done a lot more than consume on it.

As far as the Surface pro... it doesn't have enough horse power for my work. I'm an engineer, and need a true workstation with a real CAD video card. I use a Dell Precision M6700, which is capable of running my engineering software. The Surface Pro is not. The Surface pro is an entry level machine, not a pro machine.
 
Of course you know you are wrong. The iPad Pro can work with the Pencil, where the other iPads can not. To me that was enough for me to buy one. Also it's a much faster iPad, so the name Pro in the apple sense is fitting. I have had mine now for a little over a week, and have done a lot more than consume on it.

It can work with the Pencil. But it is not the first iPad to have pen support. Many many many companies have brought out stylus and keyboards for all existing iPads. This is nothing new.
Apple, late to the game has finally caught up.

Now, going by that argument, If the iPad Air 3 or Mini X work with the Pencil, does that make them Pro?! No doubt they will be a lot faster in the coming years. That's technology for you.

Who says that's what it's going to be 2, 3 or 5 years from now?

Maybe it's going to be an iPad with the greatest hardware / specs on the planet but tied to an operating system that has to be made, iPhone first.
Maybe Apple will shift gear and give up on iPads altogether. Maybe we'll all be send thoughts directly to each other living in a virtual environment.

The argument here is iOS. It's not Pro now, it won't be Pro for a long time to come. Hardware doesn't slow down but iOS is the slowest growing OS I have ever witnessed.

Maybe next year we will be able to remove all of the unwanted Apple Apps! That'd be "Pro"gress.
 
As far as the Surface pro... it doesn't have enough horse power for my work. I'm an engineer, and need a true workstation with a real CAD video card. I use a Dell Precision M6700, which is capable of running my engineering software. The Surface Pro is not. The Surface pro is an entry level machine, not a pro machine.

Also you'll note that I said the Surface has enough horsepower to deal with pretty much anything you throw at it. Yes there will be the exception in your case where you need the dedicated workhorse for that extra processing power to run certain software.
I doubt the iPad Pro would work any better in this scenario. No better than a Macbook if they were running the same OS.

My arguments for the Surface being a Pro machine is that is can fit into "almost" any work environment - same as a Macbook Pro. This includes being hooked up to a display, being able to connect to servers, files / folders, software, SVN Repos, the list goes on. It's not a device where you'd have to find some pretty serious work arounds to actually do work on it!
 
I don't know why you guys get so hung up on the name iPad Pro. Did you get that hung up with the Mac Book Pro? It runs the same OS X as any other Mac Book. In the Apple naming system, Pro has meant: Better screen, faster processor. It has never meant: Runs a different operating system.
 
Personally. I'm just so unbelievably bored of iPad. Smaller, Lighter, Thinner and now Bigger.
Wow!

Weirdly I find it insulting that this iPad is being compared to Laptops, Desktops, Hybrids just because Apple added "Pro" to the end. It's odd the tech writers didn't do that with the iPad Air 2.
 
Personally. I'm just so unbelievably bored of iPad. Smaller, Lighter, Thinner and now Bigger.
Wow!

Weirdly I find it insulting that this iPad is being compared to Laptops, Desktops, Hybrids just because Apple added "Pro" to the end. It's odd the tech writers didn't do that with the iPad Air 2.

Personally I find it weird that anybody cares what this device is compared to. Why does it matter? There are millions of people using laptops for the exact same things iPads are used for.

Maybe it's going to be an iPad with the greatest hardware / specs on the planet but tied to an operating system that has to be made, iPhone first.
Maybe Apple will shift gear and give up on iPads altogether. Maybe we'll all be send thoughts directly to each other living in a virtual environment.

The argument here is iOS. It's not Pro now, it won't be Pro for a long time to come. Hardware doesn't slow down but iOS is the slowest growing OS I have ever witnessed.

Maybe next year we will be able to remove all of the unwanted Apple Apps! That'd be "Pro"gress.

Hmm...I wasn't aware you had Apple's roadmap for iOS and iPads.

I don't know why you guys get so hung up on the name iPad Pro. Did you get that hung up with the Mac Book Pro? It runs the same OS X as any other Mac Book. In the Apple naming system, Pro has meant: Better screen, faster processor. It has never meant: Runs a different operating system.

Exactly. It's silly to get hung up on names. And it's entirely possible that Apple will continue to add features and capabilities to iOS for iPad. Though I do find it a bit amusing that one hand people are complaining about software quality, that we need a snow leopard moment, that Apple's lost focus, doing too much, needs to slow down and focus on quality etc. but on the other hand complaining that iOS on iPad isn't "pro" enough and springboard looks ridiculous. So pretty much whatever Apple does is the wrong thing to be doing.
 
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I think it makes people feel smart, if they can put down a product. And then when they announce they are way to PRO for this "pro" product, makes them feel even smarter and more important. I would like to see some of the patents that these brilliant people hold, and what products they have developed.

The bottom line, for millions of people, the iPad Pro will be a wonderful product, and do everything they need it to do. For others it won't. There is no such thing as one tool that will do everything, for everyone.

When I travel with my job, I need to schlep this very heavy Dell M6700 work station. I wish the Surface Pro, was a real Pro machine and could replace it, but it can't.

But the iPad has become a replacement for taking along my personal Mac Book Air when I travel. So for me, the upgrade to the iPad Pro with a keyboard cover is a nice upgrade. (When they ship my cover that is!)
 
for millions of people, the iPad Pro will be a wonderful product

Well lets hope so. If it sells well my shares go up. All good.

You're allowed to be impressed with it. I on the other hand am overwhelmingly disappointed with this and pretty much everything Apple have done for the last three years.
On a personal / professional level I don't feel like I'm part of the cutting edge anymore and that makes work incredibly dull. I like to feel energised and excited.
 
Well lets hope so. If it sells well my shares go up. All good.

You're allowed to be impressed with it. I on the other hand am overwhelmingly disappointed with this and pretty much everything Apple have done for the last three years.
On a personal / professional level I don't feel like I'm part of the cutting edge anymore and that makes work incredibly dull. I like to feel energised and excited.

Watch? iPhone 6/6s? Touch ID? Pay? TV 2? iMac 5k? Mac Pro?
 
Watch? iPhone 6/6s? Touch ID? Pay? TV 2? iMac 5k? Mac Pro?

Watch - No. No interest. A confused mess of a thing. Apple took a dump on the simplicity rule book.
iPhone 6 (s) + - A bigger, thinner, smaller, larger whatever. iPhone, iOS. No. Same, same but same.
My 5 is still works has a nice weight to it but overall I prefer the look and feel of the 4.
iMacs - Less said about those the better. My iMac from 2012 is still top class without all those K's.
MacPro. Ahhh the dustbin.

TV 2 was the only thing that had me a tad excited. But that wasn't future proofed for 4k. So no.
 
It can work with the Pencil. But it is not the first iPad to have pen support. Many many many companies have brought out stylus and keyboards for all existing iPads. This is nothing new.
Apple, late to the game has finally caught up.

From your comment it's clear you have never used the other third party styli or Apple's Pencil.

Because if you had, and especially if you were a graphic artist/designer, you would immediately understand there is just no comparison between the others and Apple's. That goes for precision, latency, features, and performance.

It's like comparing grade-school finger painting to artist-rendered pen and ink drawing. If you don't know what that is about, or care, by all means purchase one of the aftermarket styli and have fun. If you're a professional who makes a living from art, you will immediately understand how the Apple Pencil differs from all the others and will put it to great use.
 
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...A load of stuff I don't think about things I didn't say.

I couldn't care less about photoshop. Graphics is the only thing iPad and pencil CAN start to do. Professional design software isn't available on iOS, and it isn't coming. Some of these design applications were built in the 1960s in the space program and have decades of development time in them. They modify and utilize the OS in enormously involved ways to be as capable and powerful as they are, and sell for many thousands of dollars per seat. We can't even get the most popular, mid-level design software companies to consider writing for OS X yet, much less iOS. If you expect everyone to suddenly just start rewriting new versions of their software from scratch to fit an OS that can't even link a spreadsheet or database to a drawing, for use on a single manufacturers consumer-level device just because it's neat, you're going to be sitting around waiting, not working, a very long time.

iPad & pencil are great if you want to take some notes and doodle some sketches. Those are the 2 things it does. For the other million or so things, we can use Apple because OS X can run in conjunction with a secondary OS, and a fully capable Wacom Cintiq with customizable context menus optimized for the software and workflow. That's what professional means. OS X on a tablet would be that. An OS optimized for a phone isn't.

That's not stuck in 2001, that's stuck in today, and in stuck in at least the foreseeable future.

If you're talking about CAD, then there definitely is professional design software in the works. The reason CAD on tablets hasn't taken off like all the futuristic tech videos promised it would is because it needs precision, and using your fingers to manipulate these fine details on a 2D plane is tricky. Your fingers weren't designed for that. For that level of fine control, you really need to use a tool like a stylus or mouse (where you have several fingers and your hand giving stability and precision).

The iPad couldn't always do "graphics". It could do painting and inking, but the finer kinds of line art are only possible with a more precise tool. It's the same interface problem as they've had for CAD, and that's something Apple is addressing now with the Apple Pencil.

You seem to be expecting impossible things of the tablet market, though. We are still only a few years in to this market, and for all your non-specific ranting about iOS, it's currently the only tablet platform to be seeing any kind of success in the marketplace. Like you said, this legacy software took decades to get to where it is on the desktop, and you're going to need to be patient before applications on tablets reach that same level. These big legacy products will probably be some of the last holdouts; they need massive demand from customers before they do that, and it's simply too early for that much demand to exist.

Linking a spreadsheet to a drawing is totally possible on iOS. Again, you're stuck in the past - you're thinking about sandboxing on iOS. Sandboxing was actually an incredibly wise decision by Apple; they decided to make the platform secure from Day 1 and stood by that under a lot of heat. With iOS8, though, they added secure inter-app communication to solve some of the limitations of sandboxed apps - You can now open files stored inside other apps, for example (without copying - the other app's sandbox is given authorisation to use that one file). That was a big request, especially for productivity software. Even then, lots of professional software is just fine keeping all of its project files together and in-app. Better, even.

Legacy Software which modifies the OS is not going to fly in today's world, full stop. Even on the desktop, both OSX and Windows have been clamping down on access to system files in an effort to make real progress on security. Those legacy packages are going to need to be updated to reflect the changing systems we use - that means they'll need to work on more secure systems where system modification is restricted, and if we go that route, to touch/stylus-based interfaces too. That's true for all software.

The stuff you're saying about iOS being too small for businesses to care about is totally ridiculous. Probably the biggest productivity suite in the world, Microsoft Office, was released on iOS long before touch-optimised variants came out for Microsoft's own platform! That "single manufacturers consumer-level device" is far-and-away the best tablet on the market right now; it's as powerful as an Intel Macbook from a couple years ago and improving massively every year, has incredible battery life, weight, screen, and isn't expensive. As far as legacy software goes, it also has outstanding compatibility due to its common core with OSX; essentially the only differences between iOS and OSX these days are at the cosmetic/UI level.
 
Watch - No. No interest. A confused mess of a thing. Apple took a dump on the simplicity rule book.
iPhone 6 (s) + - A bigger, thinner, smaller, larger whatever. iPhone, iOS. No. Same, same but same.
My 5 is still works has a nice weight to it but overall I prefer the look and feel of the 4.
iMacs - Less said about those the better. My iMac from 2012 is still top class without all those K's.
MacPro. Ahhh the dustbin.

TV 2 was the only thing that had me a tad excited. But that wasn't future proofed for 4k. So no.

I guess you see things much different than many people. I love my watch, it has become a very useful tool daily. Millions of people have upgraded their iPhone 4 and 5 to 6's and very happy they did. My iMac 27 retina... well I still can stop looking at that screen.
 
Slapping on stylus support and some sub woofers doesn't make it suddenly a Pro device. It's like sticking Go Faster stripes on your Fiat 500 and telling everyone it could replace their Ferrari.

Yes, but equipping it with special under-display sensors to eliminate latency, make lag-free electronic drawing, best in its class and probably world, giving it tilt sensors and enabling best drawing experience, makes it truly a Pro device. Unlike some Windows notebooks which don't have either tilt sensors or has a basic sensitivity only and even can't draw well enough.
 
From your comment it's clear you have never used the other third party styli or Apple's Pencil.

I tried the Apple Pencil. I was not blown away by it. Sure the latency is down - there is still some latency though and this will be app specific.
It really just didn't feel right in my hand. Not sure if I've got too used to using the Pen but there we are. The weight felt off, it feels sticky.. Really not what I was expecting.
I also found that the Palm rejection was off. Again that may have been App specific.

Lets not get on to the stupidity of the charging, storage etc..

I tried all ALL of the third party stylus for iPad when they started coming out. Apple didn't get round to releasing one for years which eventually pushed me to the Surface Pro and once I broke away from iOS it was fantastic!

My comment was that an iPad with Pen support is not a NEW thing. It's been around for years. Sure Apple did it better than the rest but you'd expect them to really.

It's been stated in these discussions before. A professional artist will create great Art with just about anything including their finger.

So I guess you predicted extensions, third party keyboards. split screen, two finger trackpad, picture in picture, etc. too?

Err yes. Cause this is a no brainer when it's been in Android / Windows for years!
iOS has really become a major catch up OS and when we finally get these little pieces in each iteration it's like some major event when they should have been there in the first place!

This includes being able to remove Apple Apps!

Unlike some Windows notebooks which don't have either tilt sensors or has a basic sensitivity only and even can't draw well enough.

Again, iOS in my opinion does not make it anymore a Pro device than an iPad Mini!
Are these Windows notebooks - which you've not provided examples of, considered Pro devices?
 
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