Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
I would prefer having Pixelmator over Adobe any time. Recently tried Elements after long pause, I actually used to work on Photoshop, but Adobe is really too bloated.
Pixelmator was gimped the last time I tried it. Maybe I need to give it another go.
 
SUrface is much worser thing. Think about Windows viruses, DLL, need to find a driver, Windows installer.. yuck
lol you said worser. I haven't experienced viruses since Windows Vista. Not to say they don't exist but using Windows update and the built in Windows Defender has provided the same protection that I get with my Mac.

Microsoft handles all drivers with a monthly Surface Pro driver update. There's no need to search for drivers. They're all included in one package and delivered through Windows Update. A simple reboot and you've got the latest drivers.
 
Adobe does subscriptions now. I dont know anyone who pays full ipad prices. There is incentive if the Apple Pen is as amazing as everyone including msft says it is.

I guess I still don't see the incentive from Adobes perspective even if the Pencil is amazing? That it will drive new creative cloud subscribers? Maybe it will, but there is no way that will all happen before the release of the iPad pro 2 which was the argument above.

Adobe is a very slow moving company. They will hold onto their watered down mobile apps for as long as they can get away with it. Maybe someone else will jump in the gap, but until folks start cancelling their creative cloud subscriptions for the upstart, We aren't going to see full photoshop on iOS.
 
lol you said worser. I haven't experienced viruses since Windows Vista. Not to say they don't exist but using Windows update and the built in Windows Defender has provided the same protection that I get with my Mac.

Microsoft handles all drivers with a monthly Surface Pro driver update. There's no need to search for drivers. They're all included in one package and delivered through Windows Update. A simple reboot and you've got the latest drivers.

Just think of Windows: the main thing which makes Windows versions different is whether they have or not Start button. Windows 7 has one, Windows 8 not, Windows 10 yes. Other than that, viruses, malware, rogue drivers, DLLs, installation errors, corrupted files, buggy firmware, all are same. It is not wonder that no one uses Windows on mission critical things. Its good for cash registers though. Surface has a lot of buggy firmwares.
 
Just think of Windows: the main thing which makes Windows versions different is whether they have or not Start button. Windows 7 has one, Windows 8 not, Windows 10 yes. Other than that, viruses, malware, rogue drivers, DLLs, installation errors, corrupted files, buggy firmware, all are same. It is not wonder that no one uses Windows on mission critical things. Its good for cash registers though. Surface has a lot of buggy firmwares.
My Surface Pro 3 has been working like a champ and I install the firmware update each month. I guess it's easier to make assumptions rather than be fare though. I shouldn't expect anything better on a Mac forum so I'm not going to debate it any further.

The same can be said about OS X. It's been glitter updates since 10.5. No fundamental changes other than different desktop pictures.
 
The Surface Pro 4 is a better tool.
Ive only extensively used the Surface 2 and 3. So I cant say yet. Either way...i concluded that they didnt work as tablets or computers because they did no one thing well. To me they were the ultimate compromise with no clear upside other than to say it can do both things. Thats not tangible enough for me when the ui is a compromise IMO. I will say it wasnt as bad as my previous experience with windows machines.

Regular non metro Windows is ok by itself as is the metro ui. However, I would argue that windows metro and regular windows together doesn't really work. I would argue that it's slightly better as a laptop or really a netbook. I cant see myself like reading books on it like I would my iPad or watching videos like I do with my iPad. The keyboard wasnt very good. You dont just whip it out like you do an iPad unassumingly. The Surface is lacking that whip appeal.

This made me chuckle: @fraserspeirs: The Pencil was extremely impressive. Certainly the best iPad stylus I have used by a country mile. Palm rejection near-perfect. He then goes on to respond to all the questions about how it compares to Wacom as "I’m not familiar with drawing tablets so I couldn’t really say more."

So...... it's the best iPad stylus yet, which isn't really saying a whole lot.

It will be interesting to see how they really compare to a Wacom once the unit get out into the wild. I think it is good to challenge Wacom and get some more choices for artists. MS is aiming that way with their Surface line, but not quite there yet. We will see how Apple does.
He was probably thinking Wacom tablet not wacom pen.

Windows on a tablet is just like putting truck transmission into a sports car. It will move, but will be slow, buggy, prone to defects, unnecessary clumsy, hard to work with and plain ugly.
Honestly it wasnt that bad. It was just That Ive been spoiled by my iPad and macbook.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
My Surface Pro 3 has been working like a champ and I install the firmware update each month. I guess it's easier to make assumptions rather than be fare though. I shouldn't expect anything better on a Mac forum so I'm not going to debate it any further.

The same can be said about OS X. It's been glitter updates since 10.5. No fundamental changes other than different desktop pictures.
Well, I am glad that you didn't have buggy firmware like this "Surface Pro 3 hangs at UEFI settings, and you encounter Stop errors, disk errors, and performance issues" https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3030044, or " "Windows Shell Common DLL has stopped working" (on Surface), " The following network device did not have a driver installed PCI\VEN_11AB&DEV_2B38&SUBSYS_045E0001&REV_00", or this "Surface Pro 3 Windows 8.1 8024402F Update Error code". Last thing I want is to see those errors on my tablet.
 
I guess I still don't see the incentive from Adobes perspective even if the Pencil is amazing? That it will drive new creative cloud subscribers? Maybe it will, but there is no way that will all happen before the release of the iPad pro 2 which was the argument above.

Adobe is a very slow moving company. They will hold onto their watered down mobile apps for as long as they can get away with it. Maybe someone else will jump in the gap, but until folks start cancelling their creative cloud subscriptions for the upstart, We aren't going to see full photoshop on iOS.
Pixelmator is a cheaper alternative that is almost as good. Adobe will not risk giving money back to competitors because their apps arent optimized for the ipad pro.
 
Well, I am glad that you didn't have buggy firmware like this "Surface Pro 3 hangs at UEFI settings, and you encounter Stop errors, disk errors, and performance issues" https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3030044, or " "Windows Shell Common DLL has stopped working" (on Surface), " The following network device did not have a driver installed PCI\VEN_11AB&DEV_2B38&SUBSYS_045E0001&REV_00", or this "Surface Pro 3 Windows 8.1 8024402F Update Error code". Last thing I want is to see those errors on my tablet.
Lol there are millions of surface tablets. Anyone can do an Internet search and find reported issues. Quit stretching dude.

I can also list hundreds, maybe thousands of articles for the iPad. The last thing you want is to receive errors on your iPad. You can't perform any troubleshooting and will probably have to blow away your image and settings.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheHateMachine
Just think of Windows: the main thing which makes Windows versions different is whether they have or not Start button. Windows 7 has one, Windows 8 not, Windows 10 yes. Other than that, viruses, malware, rogue drivers, DLLs, installation errors, corrupted files, buggy firmware, all are same. It is not wonder that no one uses Windows on mission critical things. Its good for cash registers though. Surface has a lot of buggy firmwares.

Does anyone use OS X on mission critical things?
 
SP - day job: computer, night job / hobby: tablet. IPP - Tablet, never claiming to be anything else. I cannot believe all of these comments about file system. At work and largely at home all of my documents are in the cloud in a hierarchical file system the same way they have always been: Box, DropBox, OneDrive, and the list goes on. Across all devices.

Some things still better on a standard laptop but the gap is closing. I give it 5 years, max and this thing had transitioned.
PC, MacBook, laptop - for a while longer because "that's the way we've always done it" ....you know the song has ended but the melody lingers on ....
 
Every company Ive worked at does from nyt to reuters to you name it...

Well, I was actually after what he meant by "mission critical things". It's true that NASA don't use Windows on the Mars Rovers but they don't use OS X either.

The real constant between all those versions of Windows is the person in front of the screen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rbrian
Air 3 with display refresh rate for Pencil. I don't need 4 speakers on my tablet.
 
"certainly the best iPad stylus I have used by a country mile." wtf is this...there are more ipad stylus out there?
 
This argument is so 2010.

That doesn't make it less true. A crippled operating system is a crippled operating system, it doesn't matter if it's 2010 or 2015.

If this really were a "Pro" device, it would run OS X - maybe with an added "iOS personality" so that it can also run all those iOS apps. But with an OS X foundation, it could also run PROFESSIONAL software - just as the name implies. (Of course, in that case the iPad Pro's keyboard would have needed a touch pad as well...)

The thing that still makes me laugh that they shamelessly copied the entire Microsoft Surface Pro concept that a lot of people have joked about when it was introduced. Apparently, Microsoft did a lot of things right.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JazzyUK
"certainly the best iPad stylus I have used by a country mile." wtf is this...there are more ipad stylus out there?

There are lots. 53 makes one called the Pencil that is one of the better ones. I believe Wacom even makes one.
 
if ipad would run osx...think about battery usage....and the UI lag...i prefer 10h battery and no lag
 
a tablet running a desktop OS is a hybrid, a hybrid will never be perfect.
By definition it is a compromise.

That doesn't make it less true. A crippled operating system is a crippled operating system, it doesn't matter if it's 2010 or 2015.

If this really were a "Pro" device, it would run OS X - maybe with an added "iOS personality" so that it can also run all those iOS apps. But with an OS X foundation, it could also run PROFESSIONAL software - just as the name implies. (Of course, in that case the iPad Pro's keyboard would have needed a touch pad as well...)

The thing that still makes me laugh that they shamelessly copied the entire Microsoft Surface Pro concept that a lot of people have joked about when it was introduced. Apparently, Microsoft did a lot of things right.
Actually the didn't which you noted at the beginning of this post. MSFT Surface is the one with a desktop OS and tablet OS on one tweener device...
 
Last edited:
just play with that surface pro, it is lagy as hell when you want to work with 2 apps simultaneous
ipad pro is a bigger ipad runs ios and has a more productivity accessories and apps...surface is not like this
surface was a cry for micrososft to introduce some hardware on the market, and they couldn't just come with the same old idea of tablets or laptop..so they made a hybrid, because otherwise customers always choose Apple, but with this hybrid they stole some users..
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.