It's io7. My 5S crashes when browsing multiple times a day sometimes I can open safari again and it will take me back to the page I was on sometimes not. My iPad 3 on ios6 hasn't crashed browsing once in it's lifetime. Unacceptable IMO. iOS 7 is dog ****
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iPad iPad, You've Failed Me One Time Too Many Times
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More specifically, it's iOS 7 on 64-bit. My iPhone 5 never crashed Safari after iOS 7, but rMini does.
So, it's 64-bit baby pains, give it some time, they'll fix it eventually.
I'm curious re the OP doing two hours of work (student or professional) in a web application on an iPad.
Can you fill us in on what you were doing?
If it's just writing, then do it in notes first. That way you won't lose it. If it's filling something out, perhaps a computer is better for such a task.
There's no doubt that Safari is crashing and it will no doubt get fixed, but I'm curious, OP, as to why you do such important work within a web browser???
Ta.
Can you fill us in on what you were doing?
If it's just writing, then do it in notes first. That way you won't lose it. If it's filling something out, perhaps a computer is better for such a task.
There's no doubt that Safari is crashing and it will no doubt get fixed, but I'm curious, OP, as to why you do such important work within a web browser???
Ta.
Yes it does! The OS kills apps when low on memory, just read the low memory warning logs. Safari/Chrome are eating 400-500MB just before they get killed.
Also people using 7.1 see no improvement.
Don't have the problem on my i5. Haven't seen a crash in near 1 year use. Use the browser quite frequently too, sometimes with tons of tabs.
I think it may get slightly better in an update, but I'm leaning towards it being a hardware issue (lack of ram with 64bit).
I think it may get slightly better in an update, but I'm leaning towards it being a hardware issue (lack of ram with 64bit).
I'm being hyperbolic for the sake of an analogy. I'm culturally, professionally and personally linked to Apple's ecosystem. Me jumping ship and going to Windows and/or Android would, yes, be the digital equivalent of moving to another country after having been with Apple my whole life. I was trying to underscore the dismissive and unhelpful nature of comments like, "Get another device."
Perhaps the comparison's a bit of a stretch but no matter how you hash it iPads are neither unnecessary nor are they a luxury item considering they're less expensive and more convenient than most PCs and are completely supplanting that area of the market. iPad's and tablets have become, or are becoming, the primary computing device for most people. It's thus unacceptable for our browser experience -- the cornerstone of everyday computing -- to mirror the instability of word processing programs from 20 years ago (i.e., the constant need to save and backup while in ClarisWorks, for example).
One could then say, "Do your serious work outside the browser," and I'd wholeheartedly agree. By working with an unstable piece of software I was putting my work at risk and paid the price. My fault. But the core frustration centers around a blatant failure of a key piece, perhaps the central piece, of the iPad's interface and functionality. Our link to the bloody internet, something taken for granted for years, is now suddenly faulty? And we should just accept this or move to another device? Seriously? Those are the only two options? We can't actually put Apple to task? A five hundred billion dollar company which somehow can't release a stable internet experience on devices average working people paid good money for?
...Five hundred billion. They could single-handedly fund a manned mission to Mars with billions left over but they can't get their new version of iOS or one of its most used apps correct?
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The crux of your argument still rests on the fact that you were doing work on a site whose creators have chosen not to support auto-save, which, in this day in age, is completely unacceptable. Computer programs of all sorts crash; that's why any program that allows you to do extensive work in it long ago started auto-saving at a regular interval. Your complaint should not be with Safari but with the creators of the site that you were working on.
That's not at all the crux of my argument and I admitted data loss in that instance was completely my fault.
Lets not be obtuse ...a piece of software that crashes several times a day on the latest hardware is unacceptable. Period. That's the crux of my argument.
Totally agree. To me, Safari crashing is a minor annoyance, not a major disruption of my computing experience. Mainly because I don't do any actual work in Safari, I do that in my other apps. All of which have been working stably under iOS 7. Yes, I once lost a post I was typing in this form due to a Safari crash. But that is the extent of the "damage" I've incurred from iOS 7 instability. As far as growing pains of new OS on new hardware goes, this is so mild, it's practically nothing.
Minor annoyance is understating it a bit, don't ya think? Web browsing is a HUGE use item for any tablet and it's the one thing that just about every tablet owner does on a regular basis. It shouldn't be crashing on people. Period. It doesn't seem to affect everyone and it's probably a software issue that can be fixed. But let's not make it out like a brand new iPad crashing is a minor annoyance. It's more like a deal killer for those affected!
If you double the RAM then it still crashes, just later, which is the whole point.
It's a bug in WebKit that you could "hide" by giving an iPad a GazillionByte of RAM, but it's still a bug that, which software updates can - and, supposedly, will - fix.
Ergo, wait for iOS 7.1.
iOS 7.1 Final that is, not Beta 1.
NO!!! It's iOS7. LOTS of people are experiencing safari crashing, and instability on 32bit hardware as well. My iPad2 crashes all the time now. I think it crashed twice in the year I owned it with iOS5/6. The rest of the quoe you didn't include, talked about the same for that poster's iPad3 - NEver crashed before, but crashes all the time now in iOS7 - both 32 bit architecture.
So your experience does not match with what a lot of other people are experiencing(check out the threads, LOTS of examples).
Frustrating? Yes. But my point is, you're treating the iPad as if it's the single, one and only device you can use to perform the work your job depends on. I'm saying there are alternatives, especially considering a few short years ago the iPad didn't even exist.
Are iPads more convenient than PCs? Probably. I'd argue the 'less expensive' point considering you can get a full Windows laptop for $199 nowadays. And yes, I still maintain they are a luxury item, unless your specific job requires one for a very specific reason (e.g. there is an iOS-only app written that is the only way you can perform your duties). Since everything so far has been around using a website, I don't believe this to be the case.
I don't disagree it's unacceptable there are obvious flaws in a core piece of their core software. My point is, you're treating this a a life-or-death situation when it clearly isn't. You obviously WANT to do your work on an iPad. A lot of people in my office would LIKE to have iPads instead of their PCs as well. But they don't NEED them.
It's absolutely an irritation, yes, but given the tablet market today, every one of them has significant drawbacks of some sort or another, and yes, many Windows tablets will suffer their own crashes. Go try to do any serious amount of work in touch-world IE.
What changed it from a small irritation to a large one for you is the fact that you were working on a site that wasn't saving your work. I wouldn't do work on ANY device that could cause my work to be lost from a crash, as I understand and expect that it WILL happen.
Minor annoyance is understating it a bit, don't ya think? Web browsing is a HUGE use item for any tablet and it's the one thing that just about every tablet owner does on a regular basis. It shouldn't be crashing on people. Period. It doesn't seem to affect everyone and it's probably a software issue that can be fixed. But let's not make it out like a brand new iPad crashing is a minor annoyance. It's more like a deal killer for those affected!
It's a minor annoyance because, on average, it happens less than once a day, and recovering from it is pretty painless -- you restart your browser and everything is where it was before the crash, unless you happened to be typing into a web form at the moment of the crash. It certainly isn't a deal killer for me.
technopimp said:
Was I venting just a tad when I started this thread? Yes. And was my data loss a precipitating factor? Yes. But lets see the forest for the trees. We've already gotten on the same page re: it's unacceptable to have obvious flaws in a core piece of core software. Now if it were that iOS had this shortcoming from day one I'd say okay, whatever, I have to accept it as an idiosyncrasy of the tablet format and maybe they'll work it out somewhere down the line.
Problem is, that's simply not the case. My iPad 4, just before iOS 7, was flawless. Didn't crash once from January, when purchased, until the update. New version of iOS and now the thing's a basket case...literally about two rungs up the ladder from the iPad 1 it replaced. This is the primary source of frustration and what I find absolutely unacceptable...it's even more frustrating I can't downgrade to the former version that "just worked."
The fact I lost a lot of data one morning had everything to do with a decision I made to depend on a faulty piece of software. We've established this. But my discontent didn't just blossom out of the aether...it's been something I've dealt with ever since the update and is currently something a lot of people can relate to. Just look at the posts in this thread alone. Users on the newest hardware, let alone those a generation or two back, contending with the same unstable nonsense. Now hit up Google. Pages upon pages of complaints from users on Apple support and other forums.
The point is, if this were Apple circa 2002 maybe I could understand it. Hell if it were Apple circa 2007 I could understand it. But with the sheer dearth of resources at their disposal and the chunk of market share they control how could they release such an obvious dog pile to their consumers? And then, what, make them wait an entire quarter for a meaningful update that may never come?
In either case it seems you're mistaking my passion for "life or death." Like I said in previous posts I've been on Apple computers since I was big enough to sit in front of one and punch keys so I'm clearly invested in their ecosystem and bring to the table a degree of perspective newer converts may not have. I can't, personally, recall a time in the company's history -- especially in the past ten or fifteen years -- where they've been so categorically awful at managing the release of software that, as we've agreed, deals with a core component of functionality.
Apple's pitfalls in years gone by have primarily been isolated to hardware. Indeed with each piece of Apple hardware I buy I almost expect some quirk or deficiency. In recent memory, for example, every single Mac with a slot loading optical I purchased -- mini G4, two powerbooks and an early x86 mini -- either had a defective drive right out the door or had it fail within a year. This from someone who rarely used optical drives for anything. I suspect part of the reason they're not including them anymore, aside from saving a few bucks on each unit sold and ushering people toward the App Store, has to do with the ungodly number of warranty claims they were getting.
Now with the mid-'11 air I'm using it has this highly annoying WiFi issue. Works fine 99% of the time but if you turn on bluetooth good luck getting and maintaining a WiFi signal. Was going to upgrade but it looks like the latest airs have their own wifigate going on. I'll wait.
So why, might you say, do I not jump up and down over these glaring deficiencies? True, they're no doubt irritating and in particular it's beyond me why they haven't nailed WiFi yet...but the big difference between hardware and software comes down to this: As an end user I can find a solution to just about any minor/moderate hardware problem. For the drives it was easy, I just bought a fifteen dollar USB external that still sees use to this day. For the WiFi conundrum I shelled out a few hundred for an uber router that seems to have mitigated the problem. Fairly painless.
Thing is, I've always viewed Apple hardware as a means to an end, the end being the software, the experience, the interface, the usability. In that sense I can stomach problems existing here in the physical realm because I know either I, or one of Apple's geniuses can typically get to the bottom of it in short order. But software? Forget about it. Like you guys have already stated the only solution to a glaring software issue lies in the "Too bad, deal with it or leave Apple's rarified excellence and move to Windows" sort of thing. But I don't think we should have to deal with it. At the very least we should be allowed to voice our concerns in public forum, a place Apple undoubtedly checks on from time to time. Perhaps it might make them put a finger back on the pulse of their consumers and reevaluate certain methodologies.
Or perhap not, who knows? Apple's history has been one of ups and downs. Maybe this is one bump in the road like many that came before it. Or maybe it's the portent of a slow, steady decline back to obscurity. We really don't know. All I can say is my beloved company has been rather unimpressive these past few years and I hope, for everyone's benefit, they tighten things up a bit.
Glad to see you are calming down a bit, and I appreciate the more detailed explanation of where you are coming from.
Unfortunately, as you say, with software, you just have to live with it, or go in search of alternate solutions. And maybe Apple did have a higher standard in software than, say, Windows, because the problems with iOS 7 is nothing compared to some of the mess that I've seen on Windows systems, past and present. But if in fact, Apple has slipped with iOS 7, I'm inclined to give them a pass for it. Booting out Scott Forstall has its costs, and this is part of it. If Apple doesn't manage to pull itself back together, then Tim Cook made a huge mistake. I'll be watching things closely with how things go with iOS 7.1, iOS 8, and beyond. But the point is, the current slippage in software has a single, identifiable cause. It's not like the entire company is just spiraling downwards for no identifiable reason. So I'm somewhat optimistic that Apple will get things back on course. But we'll see!
It's an iOS 7 thing. My Safari almost never crashed on iOS 6 on my Iphone 5. It crashes at least once and sometimes twice a day now on my 5S running iOS 7.
I too had an ipad that constantly crashed with too many tabs open in Safari. I finally ditched it for an Android tablet (Galaxy Note 10.1) and never had such problems again. of course, Android has plenty of its own bugs, but they can be remedied by tweaking the system.
OP - I just read your entire post (three up from here).
Very well thought out and well written. I agree with you 100% on this...
I exchanged an air due to this issue (at Apples suggestion), did a clean install and it's still happening. They need to fix the software ASAP. The sad part is that I don't see anything about the bug fix in 7.1.
They need to handle this issue, as it is (like you say) a core program, and THAT is unacceptable.
Very well thought out and well written. I agree with you 100% on this...
I exchanged an air due to this issue (at Apples suggestion), did a clean install and it's still happening. They need to fix the software ASAP. The sad part is that I don't see anything about the bug fix in 7.1.
They need to handle this issue, as it is (like you say) a core program, and THAT is unacceptable.
this must be some sort of joke
it has plenty to do with the amount of RAM. it also has to do with buggy software. one or the other will fix the 'problem'. increased RAM will hide the problem longer.
however, apple has said NOTHING about fixing it in iOS 7.1
so you are just talking out of your ass.
7.1 can come and go and the problem might still be there. users should raise as much hell as possible until its fixed immediately
Care to elaborate?
On a side note, "Hiding a problem" is something that I'd associate with Microsoft, Apple usually fixes them. Which requires a software update. And is not dependent on RAM size.
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