iPhone 1.1.1 Aftermath

[macenforcer]

In any situation like this, it's important to get to the facts of the matter and find out what is really going on. Yet you have no facts at all to compliment your continued assertion that Apple did this "intentionally."

Please keep further outbursts to yourself until you have some facts to back them up.

I like how people make claim about the facts. The facts are this. Apple bricked a crap load of iphones. Was it intentional? YES. Why? Because they did it and have not undone it. Plain and simple. On top of that they are voiding the warranty.

This whole buying of devices only to be told you can't use it any way besides the way we tell you is going to come to an end. Comcast doesn't let me do stuff to my cable box but guess what, they don't make me pay $400 for it. I rent it. Now if I was renting the iphone they could do what they want but I bought it. I own it. Its mine. If I want to smash it I can. If I want to take it apart thats my parogative. If I want to change the software then why not.

Don't feed a bunch of bull about how people knew the risk or should not have updated or any rubbish. Apple is intentionally bricking the phones. There is no doubt. Its wrong and they need to fix them or get sued.

No, I did not install 3rd party apps, unlock my phone or anything. My phone works perfect and I have the new firmware installed. I am simply simpathetic to the plight of many bricked iphone owners and am not for being controlled by companies. Apple has been a small company dying to be a big huge nasty manopoly like microsoft and it looks as if they are now getting their chance.

Cell companies have been robbing us for years. Time to put them straight and end this whole mess.

 

[iSee]

It's statements like this, and other ones you have made previously about Apple's "intentions" that are the major part of the problem here though.

All of the actual evidence, indicates that the bricking was not "intended" on Apple's part and is a result of the radio firmware being altered on unlocked phones. All evidence also indicates that if you installed third party apps that the phone is also not bricked on purpose. It's already possible to restore to the old firmware if all you want is the third party apps.

There is absolutely no evidence to indicate that Apple did anything at all to the iPhones "on purpose," other than update the software and firmware with the expectation that the old software and firmware would be present.

It's people like yourself, who seem to claim some kind of "psychic knowledge" of Apples "true intentions" (and then proceed to spread that rumor around), that are causing all the grief. Over and over again, you push out this conspiracy theory and "put words (intentions) in Apple's mouth" sort of speak, yet you have nothing to back it up.

In any situation like this, it's important to get to the facts of the matter and find out what is really going on. Yet you have no facts at all to compliment your continued assertion that Apple did this "intentionally."

Please keep further outbursts to yourself until you have some facts to back them up.

Baloney.

You've got no "facts" either, and you certainly didn't keep your mouth shut. Sure, we've got no way to prove whether or not Apple bricked phones on purpose. We can be sure they were OK with it, though.

Apple may not be obligated to try to ensure their updates don't brick modified phones, but it's very much OK for customers to be unhappy with them if they don't. I think it would probably have been reasonable for Apple to have blocked the update from proceeding if it detected an unlocked phone. Maybe Apple had no good way of detecting that, I don't have any way to know. I can't prove anything. But Apple's on "double-secret probation" as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Noren]

I must say I do not understand all this "aftermath" regarding the iPhone software update. So many of the people complaining were the ones that waited in line for hours on launch day and paid the full $599 price fully knowing Apple's tendency to closed-ecosystem products and the multi-year lock to AT&T. I too am one of those folks, but you don't see me scrambling to find torches and pitchforks so I can storm the Cupertino campus. Why? Because I exercised some common sense and made the decision to purchase the iPhone in its current form and at its current price -- not for what it could be or might some day become. And I do not feel even a tiny bit slighted.

Are there some things I wish Apple would change/add? Yes, of course -- I've written several responses to the feedback page myself. But I did not let that factor into my decision to purchase the device. I feel no sympathy for those who were smart enough to hack their device, but failed to consider the consequence of doing so.

If you stood in line knowing Apple's past tendencies of closed-ecosystem products, the multi-year lock to AT&T, the constant cat and mouse game Apple plays with FairPlay and PlayFair and still paid the "overpriced" $599 and are the proud owner of an iBrick you have no one to blame but yourself.

Accept some personal responsibility for crying out loud.

 

[whatever]

Developers should just go on an iPhone strike

DUH!

Hacking the iPhone in the first place was more of a "Proof of Concept" or "Fun Thing To Do" thing in the first place.

People did it to show off what they can do. No one (except for the company willing to bend the laws to unlock the phone) is making money from this.

So, it might be a little harder to add 3rd Party apps on the iPhone today, that just ups the inti (I think that's the correct word and/or spelling).

I just praying that the 10.5 brings us a tool to create both Mac widgets and iPhone widgets (running widgets designed for the Mac on an iPhone is awful!).

 

[Digital Skunk]

This whole buying of devices only to be told you can't use it any way besides the way we tell you is going to come to an end. Comcast doesn't let me do stuff to my cable box but guess what, they don't make me pay $400 for it. I rent it. Now if I was renting the iphone they could do what they want but I bought it. I own it. Its mine. If I want to smash it I can. If I want to take it apart thats my parogative. If I want to change the software then why not.

Cell companies have been robbing us for years. Time to put them straight and end this whole mess.

I agree with you enforcer, but you said it right there in the italics. If you want to damage your phone then by all means do so, but Apple won't be responsible for it and you won't be able to get them to fix it since you intentionally smashed the phone, or changed it's software. I think iPhone users that hacked their phone set themselves up for this, Apple won't be able to get sued by the users at all since they voided their warranty by downloading software that turned the iPhone into something it wasn't intended to be used for.

I agree with the notion that it's my device as well and if I buy it I can do whatever I want with it, but again... it won't be Apples fault if the device doesn't work at that point, you break it, or it doesn't work properly. The phone was intended to be used on AT&T's network only. As for 3rd party apps that is another story. Using web based apps on the phone was it's original purpose and I have no clue as to why Apple would kill off all those apps and make it harder for devos to create them. As many have said, the best way for customers to speak out at that point would be to not buy the phone, like many in the USA have done.

Cell carriers are the devil indeed. The fact that AT&T won't give me insurance for the iPhone is one of the reasons I won't get the phone, and locking it into AT&T in the first place is the only reason why Apple won't see my cash for an iPhone until they fix that major flaw.

 

[Clive At Five]

If I buy a device, any device, then open it up or mess with its fundamental core way of operating, should I expect the manufacturer to continue to support it? No.

I don't think anyone is asking for Apple to support the 3rd party dev't at this point... I think they're just wanting for it to be possible.

I think most would be happy with a "Okay, here's how to do it, but proceed at your own risk" statement from Apple.

-Clive

 

[hotinplaya]

Is there any way to tell if the iPhone inventory at ATT stores is the old version? Does any one know when Apple began shipping ver 1.1.1

 

[MarkPB15]

Do I have this right? The only bricked iPhones were the ones that had been unlocked for another sim/carrier. If so, then this makes perfect sense. Apple makes money off of every AT&T contract so basically anyone who buys it and uses it for another carrier is stealing from them. Not to mention I am sure AT&T is applying a lot of pressure since they are getting royally screwed every time someone unlocks one.

As for 3rd party apps, there will be some sort of developer toolkit eventually. This basically the beta run for the iPhone so I don't really blame them for keeping it locked down.

The only thing that annoys me, is that I should be able add any of my music as a ring for free, but I'm not going to cry over 2 bucks.

As far as I am concerned, I had to make a $2,000 commitment to AT&T, so I am not crying over anyone who tried to get out of it.

 

[guzhogi]

Do you have any idea how much time and manpower it would take for Apple to check and sign off on every app written for the platform? And what happens if they miss a problem in an app and the OKed app causes problems with a system? This is most definitely NOT a good idea.

Maybe not check every single app, but make a common SDK available so that the apps have the best chance of working well together w/o too much effort.

 

[macenforcer]

I agree with you enforcer, but you said it right there in the italics. If you want to damage your phone then by all means do so, but Apple won't be responsible for it and you won't be able to get them to fix it since you intentionally smashed the phone, or changed it's software. I think iPhone users that hacked their phone set themselves up for this, Apple won't be able to get sued by the users at all since they voided their warranty by downloading software that turned the iPhone into something it wasn't intended to be used for.

I agree with the notion that it's my device as well and if I buy it I can do whatever I want with it, but again... it won't be Apples fault if the device doesn't work at that point, you break it, or it doesn't work properly. The phone was intended to be used on AT&T's network only. As for 3rd party apps that is another story. Using web based apps on the phone was it's original purpose and I have no clue as to why Apple would kill off all those apps and make it harder for devos to create them. As many have said, the best way for customers to speak out at that point would be to not buy the phone, like many in the USA have done.

Cell carriers are the devil indeed. The fact that AT&T won't give me insurance for the iPhone is one of the reasons I won't get the phone, and locking it into AT&T in the first place is the only reason why Apple won't see my cash for an iPhone until they fix that major flaw.

Yes, but here is the rub. Changing software did NOT break the phone. Apples update did. If you install something that damages the phone they yeah its your fault but if you installed it, and it runs fine, then apple says we have an update and its broken then yeah its apples fault. Besides, not none of these phones are really broken. They are all disabled by apple.

See the difference?

 

[ChrisA]

Reseting basic parts should at MAX return your device to pre-hacked state. There is ABSOLUTELY no reason for the update to brick devices.

What if the boot loader makes a call into some function and that function was "hacked" by the sim unlocker? In such a scenario the boot loader is then broken and you would have no way to load firmware into the phone.

The one key piece of information many people here don't know is that the thing that loads new firmware into the phone is itself firmware. If you break the loader you've got a brick. well not really most devices can be reprogrammed but at this point special equipment is required.

 

[Stella]

There are reports that iPhones that were NOT unlocked were also bricked - these phones were in the minority - but something that should never of happened.

Do I have this right? The only bricked iPhones were the ones that had been unlocked for another sim/carrier.

 

[whatever]

Aren't we are supposed to be living in a free society?
Free societies use "laissez faire economics" to do
business. In otherwords, free enterprise. Corporate Apple sells a product, consumer buys product and decides how they want to use it. They may choose to use it as a doorstop or a phone. It is ridiculous to think I am
barred from using my phone however I want, as long as it does not encroach on another.

The iPhone was designed to be a locked phone, which works only with specified partners in specified countries.

Yes, you can choose to use it as a door stop, because it does not "encroach on another". However, unlocking it does "encroach" on another.

The fact that you do not consider Apple, AT&T and other partners of the iPhone as being "encroached" is absurd.

These companies have invested in a product and hope to reap the benefits of their investments.

Yes, some clever people have figured out how to beat the system, but is it really wrong for Apple to protect their investment. Remember, Apple is making money from the phone plans of their partners on the legal iPhones and nothing from the hacked ones.

To quote Frank Zappa:
Free is when you don't have to
Pay for nothing
Or do nothing
We want to be free
Free as the wind

 

[MarkPB15]

There are reports that iPhones that were NOT unlocked were also bricked - these phones were in the minority - but something that should never of happened.

We ll I am guessing if they can prove they have an ATT account they can probably get it fixed.

 

[whatever]

While clearly Apple can sell its own products under whatever terms and conditions it wants, and while customers were clearly on notice that the iPhone is a closed device and were living in never-never land in thinking they could transform it into a different device, I just don't think Apple's approach with the iPhone is sustainable over the long term. The current trend is toward openness in software. Two examples that have proven very popular: Google Maps opening its API, and the increasing popularity of Linux OSs.

I don't think Apple can buck this trend indefinitely. I predict that by this time next year there is an SDK and certification program for iPhone developers.

I know I'll be crucified for saying this (and please excuse my multiple posts), but open source is great, but once the real money starts to appear companies that once embraced open source begin to circle their wagons and do things like split their code or pulling out of community all together.

This is happening everyday. Sure open source is not going anywhere, but either are the companies that protect their bread and butter technology either.

 

[Stella]

We ll I am guessing if they can prove they have an ATT account they can probably get it fixed.

Yep.

 

[kingtj]

re: iPhone and SDK

I'm in agreement on the carrier locking situation. As far as that part is concerned, I don't really see why there's a fuss at all? The bottom line is, Apple made it VERY clear that signing up with their selected partner carrier was part of the deal if you wanted to activate your new iPhone. Anyone trying to get around this should KNOW they're playing with something that is going to void the warranty.

But IMHO, it's the locking out of the 3rd. party apps that's inexcusable.
If what you're saying is true, all Apple would/should have done was issue a press release explaining their position. A little communication would go a LONG way here. Tell people that an SDK *is* in the works, and eventually, developers will be able to make apps that Apple is "ok" with!

Since nothing's been said, despite the firestorm created with the firmware update -- it makes me think this is, in fact, not quite the case. (I fear that like the iPods, Apple will decide the only way to add software to the iPhone is by paying for Apple's in-house apps offered via iTunes.) Knowing that this won't satisfy people wanting to make freeeware apps for the iPhone, they're remaining dead silent on it instead.

Its much more complex then this, but two basic reasons:

For locking it from third-party apps: As of right now, Apple hasn't released an SDK to developers. That means any apps developed are done for the most part on a trial and error basis with no guarantee what any particular one will do to the phone. Apple locks the phone up from these things so they don't have to incur the costs of servicing any phones that a user might break by installing one of these apps (I know that there aren't any major examples of this but it is a possible explanation).

For locking it to AT&T/O2: Apple wants a chunk of the fees you pay each month. Through negotiation, AT&T (and O2 in the UK) agreed to this, but wanted to be the exclusive network of the phone for the next (five?) years. Apple has to at least show good faith that they are keeping all iPhones on the AT&T network to uphold their end of the bargain. I'm guessing Apple could have released the phone unlocked for all networks, but then they'd be missing out on the subscription revenues (as well as having to deal with a handful of Verizon/Sprint subscribers wondering why the GSM phone wouldn't work on their network).

 

[whatever]

There are people who believe that Apple provides the 'whole package'... and having the exclusive package like it is benefits the customer more than it disadvantages.

Ultimately, history will repeat itself and Apple will be stung once more by its control freak nature. Unless Apple frees up the iPhone, it will become a minor player. We will be looking back and thinking what could have been. The iPhone may be selling well now, but sooner or later there will be a customer and media backlash.

Other cell phone manufacturers will sort themselves out and provide the ease of use of the iPhone. These phones will still provide an open nature - 3rd party apps ( even if just Java ( MIDP ) games , ring tones, everything we see today. Once the 'iphone ease of use ' UI comes to other phones, iPhone will start to fade.

I think you're wrong on this one.

People said the same about the iPod and there have been tons of "iPod Killers", but what product continues to rein supreme?

The big difference is that Apple only has to negotiate with their establish partners. Motorola (for example) has to bow to everyone. And with all of the telecom's competing with one another it's difficult for hardware vendors. Just look at what Verizon does to BlueTooth on their phones.

Palm introduced the Centro last week and it looks cute, but guess what the kids want iPhones! Yes, I said kids! I've been approached by several random parents last week who saw me on my iPhone and these strangers came over to me and asked me questions about the iPhone. All of them said the same thing, that this is all their kids want for Christmas (God, I wanted toys when I was kid, not a phone!). What's stranger is that a majority of these children are girls!

 

[mkubal]

(not an iPhone owner)

This situation will become hilarious when the second generation iPhone comes out. Undoubtedly, much like the iPod updates, the new phone will come with new functionality/apps (iChat maybe) that Apple will decline to provide to first gen iPhone owners.

At this point the same people defending the locking out of 3rd party apps will be the ones on here crapping the bed about how Apple is screwing them and they should be able to put whatever app they want on their phone.

Because as we all know, no one ever needs a feature or functionality until Apple says so.

Of course there will be the other group of people who buy the second gen phone and now look down on the first gen owners as second class citizens and will defend to the death their sole possession of the new apps.

This will turn out to be exactly like the iPod updates and I plan to have my popcorn, soda and 3D glasses ready for every one of these heated slap fights.

To quote a line from Battlestar Gallactica: "This has all happened before and this will all happen again."

Or something like that.

 

[Digital Skunk]

Yes, but here is the rub. Changing software did NOT break the phone. Apples update did. If you install something that damages the phone they yeah its your fault but if you installed it, and it runs fine, then apple says we have an update and its broken then yeah its apples fault. Besides, not none of these phones are really broken. They are all disabled by apple.

See the difference?

I see the difference, but let me ask you this... do you think that it's Apple's fault if the software you installed, that allowed you to use the phone outside of it's intended purpose, conflicted with the update? If Apple pulls that card then nothing will come out of this other than a thousand iBricks.

Just for the record... I don't support Apple's decision to brick the phone, I just don't think there is a way Apple can be blamed for it giving the nature of the unlocking software.

 

[EagerDragon]

Call me shortsighted, but I do not understand the economical reason behind locking a device.

What difference does it make to Apple?

It's not like they are trying to push their OWN software (not yet at least)

Someone explain; there has GOT to be a reason.

Locked phones have been around for a long time here in the USA. It is mainly for exclusivity. People that want a particular phone have to use a particular carrier or no service.

I guess the iPhone is such a desirable product, that people are taking an exception with this industry standard (yet not desirable by consumer) practice. You do not see the same uproar for other phones, you do not see this level of coverage in the media, and before the iPhone you never heard a member of congress complain about this practice either.

Why they do it you have to ask Apple, here is a guess on my part......

Apple needed someone to allow them to connect the iPhone to a network, Apple had zero experience in the business, to get the iPhone to market, they had to sign an exclusivity contract with a single carrier. To uphold their part (exclusivity) they had to shut down any holes that would allow someone from buying an iPhone and use it in a different carrier. It is just business, AT&T like others would not allow the iPhone on their network without an exclusivity contract / lock-in. Just a guess. But the bottom line is that Apple did not think they could just create a phone, the phone industry has a way of doing things. People may think it is stupid or unfair, but this has been going on for a very long time, other phones like the Razor and several models of Palm have gone thru this.

Hope that help

 

[macenforcer]

I see the difference, but let me ask you this... do you think that it's Apple's fault if the software you installed, that allowed you to use the phone outside of it's intended purpose, conflicted with the update? If Apple pulls that card then nothing will come out of this other than a thousand iBricks.

Just for the record... I don't support Apple's decision to brick the phone, I just don't think there is a way Apple can be blamed for it giving the nature of the unlocking software.

Yes, it is. Apple has access to all the hacks just like everyone else. I am sure they could have seen this coming. I would be willing to bet they specifically designed the update to work against such hacks. Look at the free ringtone hacks. They were both disabled within minutes. Yes apple can be blamed and should be.

 

[stoneii]

DO what you are told.....or else

Look everyone, you are WRONG to think that you are anything more then what the iPod defines you as. Steve Jobs is obviously very upset that you have been creative and self aware enough to know that you want something more then what the iPod delivers. This lock down updated is an ultimatum indicating that you are to stop thinking and being creating. So when (or if) you get out of your 'time out' be good little children and stand in nice orderly lines at your closest Apple store for Steve's latest instructions on how to be proper citizens.

 

[macenforcer]

Here is a scenerio nobody has considered.

I was in the apple store the other day and there was a very upset customer with a bricked phone. Here is his story.


He had a problem with the initial activation. Remember the activation problems of yore??? Well he took his ATT sim out of his old ATT phone and put it in the iphone and activated it and it worked. (I too had done this but saw the problem with voicemail and went to cingular to get another iphone sim). Well when he updated it it bricked his phone because it wasn't an iphone sim. He put back the original sim but it won't activate. It has been permanately bricked by apple. No new sim will fix this. Its like getting a spanking from apple for not listening to them. So apple refused to give him a new phone. They accused him of hacking. He was yelling something horrible.

This is the problem. Apple is purposely bricking phones that do not follow their plan. Its wrong folks.

 

[studiomusic]

My take on Apple.

Just having been back to the Apple store here yesterday for the 4th iphone for my daughter (first one had non-functioning lines across the screen, then the screen cracked, then the replacement for that one was buggy and stopped working...so the 4th one in 3 months)... I have to think about my Apple experience for the last 20+ years.

In the past year, my Macbook Pro has had a bad battery (just stopped working one day), my daughter's Macbook has been in the shop 3 times (bad HD, bad power cable, bad keyboard), and of course her iphone (my wife's and mine are fine!).

Even though that's a lot of problems in a short period of time, the way each situation was handled made these problems seem very minor. And I have yet to pay $1 for any repair.

Now, I think back to all of the macs I've owned, I had an ibook clamshell model that my (2 year old) daughter took a few keys off of and bit them to little pieces of unrecognizable bits of plastic, I called Apple to buy a replacement, and they fedex'ed a new one overnight for free.
Then I had a power adapter go bad on my Powerbook 12". They sent me out a new one overnight as well.

Other than that, no problems with any other Mac I've owned (over 40 of them !)

To contrast that, we got a PC laptop (HP) for my son... the keyboard went out after 2 weeks. I called (and waited an hour) HP and they said they can't replace broken parts, I must have intentionally broken the keyboard because that rarely fails -sorry. I guess mine was one of the rare cases...I had to buy a replacement for it for $100.

Long story short (too late!), Apple is getting much bigger, which brings out more flaws, but they are still #1 in rectifying any legitimate problems encountered.

I suspect that if you are nice about it, you can get your 'ibrick' replaced or repaired rather easily. If you are a cornhole about it, and yell and/or kick and scream/"I'm gonna sue!", your chances are nil.

ps. Love the new imac I bought yesterday with the help of the iphone rebates!