iPhone 1.1.1 Aftermath

[lkrupp]

I smell a lawsuit coming and fast. I was just in the apple store and a guy was in there with his locked iphone because of this update. They told him he hacked it and there was nothing he could do. He was yelling like mad. I felt bad for him. Its freakin wrong of apple and they deserve to get sued.

A friend bought a brand new Dodge Magnum automobile. He then proceeded to modify the control software for the transmission using custom software and a programming device purchased from an online performance store. His objective was to adjust the shift points of the transmission. He wound up bricking the car which had to be towed to the dealership.

By your logic Chrysler should have repaired the vehicle free of charge. They did not, of course. According to you a class action lawsuit will teach the evil Chrysler Corp. a lesson they will never forget?

Do you even understand the stupidity of your argument?

 

[skunk]

Demi-gods are just people who pay money to contribute to the site, so don't worry.

You mean you don't really have superpowers???

 

[Whiskerdreams]

The only fact that we have is that Apple told people two weeks in advance that the update was going to shutdown 3rd party apps and hacks

we can not ASSUME anything more IE. that they did this to control security or some other worthwhile point

Sooo the result of this fact is that they went out of their way to PUNISH a very small (even by your measure) group of creative individuals for no apparent reason other then they violated the Apple credo to "Think Differently" ...whooops they did not violate that credo they violated the term sheet that some lawyer wrote up

I know that you are the Demi-god so please do not punish me for not agreeing with you

Originally Posted by Engadget View Post
"Apple has discovered that many of the unauthorized iPhone unlocking programs available on the Internet cause irreparable damage to the iPhone's software, which will likely result in the modified iPhone becoming permanently inoperable when a future Apple-supplied iPhone software update is installed. ... Apple strongly discourages users from installing unauthorized unlocking programs on their iPhones. Users who make unauthorized modifications to the software on their iPhone violate their iPhone software license agreement and void their warranty. The permanent inability to use an iPhone due to installing unlocking software is not covered under the iPhone's warranty."

Hmmm... This looks like the quote you are talking about perhaps... I don't see where they say that we are going to brick your phone because you played in our sandbox... What they are saying is that they are a diligent company and even tested how their update would effect those customers that voided their warranty and made modifications to the iPhone that went against all the agreements you said ok to. When they did this testing they found problems... They came out and said there was problems... Then they did what every sane company does... They restated their position on the effects of your decision to break the license agreement.

 

[stoneii]

more from the last thought

now that I am thinking about it, the Fact that they gave the consumer 2 weeks notice prior to locking them down is rather interesting.....it is like Apple fired there creative consumers....that is hilarious actually....backstabbing the very people who helped them survive the tyrannical control of MS

maybe Apple does have some guts or at least a mean streak....I should stop writing before someone cares)

 

[guzhogi]

A friend bought a brand new Dodge Magnum automobile. He then proceeded to modify the control software for the transmission using custom software and a programming device purchased from an online performance store. His objective was to adjust the shift points of the transmission. He wound up bricking the car which had to be towed to the dealership.

By your logic Chrysler should have repaired the vehicle free of charge. They did not, of course. According to you a class action lawsuit will teach the evil Chrysler Corp. a lesson they will never forget?

Do you even understand the stupidity of your argument?

While you have a valid point, I read and reread the quote you had and he didn't say the customer did hack it. The Apple store employee just said that he did. Not necesarily the same thing. If you said that I killed JFK doesn't mean I actually did. Then again, I wasn't w/ that customer 24/7 after he bought his iPhone so I wouldn't know for sure whether he hacked it or not.

 

[bretm]

Which patent did the hackers infringe upon?

Just making an analogy of sorts. Apple has been pretty forthright about how serious they are in protecting their intellectual property on this one. Nobody broke any patents. Just pointing out that even in January we all knew Steve had no plans to open it to 3rd party dev. They were extremely serious about protecting their patents. And they recently said they were going to fight to make sure the phone can't be used on other networks. So anyone who is surprised by 1.1.1 developments should have their head examined. Apple has every right to design their software for their phones updates in any way they wish. They can't force you to update, and they're not required to provide users with updates or additional features. Plain and simple, they warned us about phones getting bricked. People went ahead and updated. Phones bricked. They had violated their terms and the phone is no longer under warranty.

Out of it all, the only thing I find annoying is that you can't use a generic sound for a ringtone. But then, they're just trying to do their due dilligince to uphold the DRM agreements. If someone can upload any old aiff as a ringtone, then they can upload any old aiff music. The phone can't tell. And anyone can strip DRM or rip a CD. I suppose it's the same with other phones. But Apple is in a special place because of the iTunes music store. They have to go overboard for the music companies being that they sell the music, and they're the prominent player. The iPhone is an iPod after all.

They definitely can't allow the phone to be used on another network. They signed a 5 year deal with ATT so ATT would share the revenues, AND from ATTs pov it is going to bring over a bunch of new users. So if it's easy to use on Tmobile, then ATT loses, AND apple loses their share of the revenues.

So 3rd party apps is one thing, but using it on another network is just never going to be permitted.

 

[hagjohn]

We haven't really lived in a free society for quite some time now and it's only getting worse but that's another topic.

When will we learn? We are the ones buying the products. We are the ones being screwed. Almost no company is going to do the "right thing" in this day and age, unless it's forced too but in this case, is Apple wrong? I should have been pretty clear that ATT was the sole provider and that Apple was going to lock out others. Whether or not we like it, it was pretty clear.

Aren't we are supposed to be living in a free society?
Free societies use "laissez faire economics" to do
business. In otherwords, free enterprise. Corporate Apple sells a product, consumer buys product and decides how they want to use it. They may choose to use it as a doorstop or a phone. It is ridiculous to think I am
barred from using my phone however I want, as long as it does not encroach on another. If it happens to not fit in the "box" that Apple thinks it should, but the consumer does, shouldn't they change their attitude (agreements)? What ever happened to the philosophy the customer is always right? The consumer will decide the best course of action for the product, but the company better listen to the consumer
or there will be a huge backlash.

...... Will they never learn?

 

[macenforcer]

A friend bought a brand new Dodge Magnum automobile. He then proceeded to modify the control software for the transmission using custom software and a programming device purchased from an online performance store. His objective was to adjust the shift points of the transmission. He wound up bricking the car which had to be towed to the dealership.

By your logic Chrysler should have repaired the vehicle free of charge. They did not, of course. According to you a class action lawsuit will teach the evil Chrysler Corp. a lesson they will never forget?

Do you even understand the stupidity of your argument?

By your logic you don't get it. Had he adjusted the shift points in software and everything was fine THEN he took it in for service and they said they installed an update but your car won't run then the dealer would be at fault. Get it now?

 

[kzin]

I didn't think the Touch had bluetooth - wasn't the hardware removed rather than just disabled in the firmware?

There was an article (on macrumors I think) that some guy received his iPod Touch in factory mode instead of in customer mode. IIRC, one of the diagnostics clearly showed that it had bluetooth, but that it was turned off.

 

[rstansby]

Aren't we are supposed to be living in a free society?
Free societies use "laissez faire economics" to do
business. In otherwords, free enterprise. Corporate Apple sells a product, consumer buys product and decides how they want to use it. They may choose to use it as a doorstop or a phone. It is ridiculous to think I am
barred from using my phone however I want, as long as it does not encroach on another.

Assuming Apple is actively blocking hacks:

Maybe its because of all of the personal information, and communications capabilities of the iPhone. What if somebody made a third party spyware app that placed a call and turned your iPhone into a "bug". The app could keep the screen black, and you would have no way of knowing that you were being recorded. Or what if an app secretly recorded your passwords and emailed them to an identity theif.

I can see lots of reasons why third party apps can be dangerous.

 

[glennyboiwpg]

I must say I do not understand all this "aftermath" regarding the iPhone software update. So many of the people complaining were the ones that waited in line for hours on launch day and paid the full $599 price fully knowing Apple's tendency to closed-ecosystem products and the multi-year lock to AT&T. I too am one of those folks, but you don't see me scrambling to find torches and pitchforks so I can storm the Cupertino campus. Why? Because I exercised some common sense and made the decision to purchase the iPhone in its current form and at its current price -- not for what it could be or might some day become. And I do not feel even a tiny bit slighted.

Are there some things I wish Apple would change/add? Yes, of course -- I've written several responses to the feedback page myself. But I did not let that factor into my decision to purchase the device. I feel no sympathy for those who were smart enough to hack their device, but failed to consider the consequence of doing so.

If you stood in line knowing Apple's past tendencies of closed-ecosystem products, the multi-year lock to AT&T, the constant cat and mouse game Apple plays with FairPlay and PlayFair and still paid the "overpriced" $599 and are the proud owner of an iBrick you have no one to blame but yourself.

Accept some personal responsibility for crying out loud.

What about those poor souls who live north of the boarder and aren't allowed to be a precious ATT customer? Where is our "mums the word" announcement?

 

[Digital Skunk]

By your logic you don't get it. Had he adjusted the shift points in software and everything was fine THEN he took it in for service and they said they installed an update but your car won't run then the dealer would be at fault. Get it now?

He was incorrect with the car analogy, but to put it in perspective, he would have to drive it to the service center for a diagnostic and when asked by the service rep if he hacked into the software he says yes. Then the rep would tell him that the diagnostic will install software that may kill his car since he hacked into his software instead of modifying it legally. If at that point the guys says, yes install the software anyway, he is at fault for the damages, not the company.

Remember, Apple said that the update would kill the phone because of the 3rd party apps that turned the phone into a franken-iPhone. Apple didn't force anyone to do anything whatsoever. Hacked iPhone users can just not download v1.1.1 and keep their phones from being bricked.

 

[bigmc6000]

By your logic you don't get it. Had he adjusted the shift points in software and everything was fine THEN he took it in for service and they said they installed an update but your car won't run then the dealer would be at fault. Get it now?

If they can prove he hacked his car then no - it's still not the dealers fault. Whenever you hack something you take that risk and you NEVER take it back to the dealer to examine if you did something that massive. Look - it voids the warranty, end of story. Now, the people who did nothing wrong and it bricked it then obviously they shouldn't be punished because some people hacked their phones. I still have no idea how and/or why people think they have a "right" to use the iPhone with anyone they want to or install anything they want. That just makes absolutely no sense at all... You aren't going to hack a PS3 to run XBox games are you?

 

[macenforcer]

He was incorrect with the car analogy, but to put it in perspective, he would have to drive it to the service center for a diagnostic and when asked by the service rep if he hacked into the software he says yes. Then the rep would tell him that the diagnostic will install software that may kill his car since he hacked into his software instead of modifying it legally. If at that point the guys says, yes install the software anyway, he is at fault for the damages, not the company.

Remember, Apple said that the update would kill the phone because of the 3rd party apps that turned the phone into a franken-iPhone. Apple didn't force anyone to do anything whatsoever. Hacked iPhone users can just not download v1.1.1 and keep their phones from being bricked.

But by that analogy I can do you one further. He takes his car into the shop and the dealer says there is an update that lets your car go in reverse. The owner says it should have gone in reverse in the first place. The dealer says you can install the update but it might render your car useless. The owner ponders and is pissed off that it won't go in reverse but takes the chance. The car is now useless. He asks the dealer to revert his car back to the old firmware so he can at least drive it and the dealer says Tuff Luck buddy, I warned you.

Same as iphone. The iphone did not have video out enabled. With the update it does. This is a feature all ipods have and should have been in the release. It also fixes the speaker phone volume problem among other things.

 

[mkubal]

So 3rd party apps is one thing, but using it on another network is just never going to be permitted.

Maybe Apple would prefer it that way, but unlocking the iPhone to use on another network is perfectly legal. Cleary Apple doesn't have to help people unlock their phones, but what they did seems unkind.

That being said I really don't feel bad for people with hacked phones who updated their phone expecting it to still work. That was reckless.

I think it's clear that Apple did this to protect their revenue streams from the iPhone. It seems obvious that they will add more functionality later on, but at a cost. iChat? $19.99 or $2.99 per month. Games? $4.99 or $1.99 per month. Just like other cell companies. If they allow people to add their own apps you lose a big revenue stream.

 

[Stella]

Assuming Apple is actively blocking hacks:

Maybe its because of all of the personal information, and communications capabilities of the iPhone. What if somebody made a third party spyware app that placed a call and turned your iPhone into a "bug". The app could keep the screen black, and you would have no way of knowing that you were being recorded. Or what if an app secretly recorded your passwords and emailed them to an identity theif.

I can see lots of reasons why third party apps can be dangerous.

No other smartphones have this problem, why should the iPhone?

No one should be keeping sensitive data on their phones in the first place, especially unencrypted.

 

[stoneii]

Hack

I am not a lawyer or anything so I was wondering how do you "Hack" a physical piece of property that you own? What I mean by that is you 'own it' so you can not hack it...if apple owned the phone and you started messing with it then it would considered "Hacked" since you did not fully own the phone...you were just borrowing it from them. So if you fully own the phone and apple does not own any part of that phone then it can not ever be Hacked

Now if Apple was to make the phone inoperable (like they did with this lock down) they have in fact HACKED the phone that you own?

so who then is evil?

 

[Noren]

What about those poor souls who live north of the boarder and aren't allowed to be a precious ATT customer? Where is our "mums the word" announcement?

I understand your frustration -- I really do. I'd be on pins and needles waiting for the iPhone to be released if I were in your shoes. I'd be pouring over every review, every photo, every forum salivating until the Powers That Be made the Canadian release a reality. But I wouldn't buy a US version and hack it just so it could run on Canada's carriers and then cry foul when things get broken.

It would be the equivalent of me ordering a very hot phone from Japan's NTT DoCoMo and hacking it to sort of kind of work with a US carrier[1] and then complaining to DoCoMo when a firmware update breaks my hacks. It isn't their problem because I ordered it through an intermediary in Japan, had it translated into English by Dynamism, and then hacked by some guru hacker to get it running with AT&T. I am certainly able to purchase said phone and hack it to my heart's content, but any bricking that occurs as a result of my meddling or misuse (however draconian their "usage policy" may be) is my own fault.

That being said, you may well be sitting in a good spot. The American release will work out many of the bugs and let Apple define the shortcomings of the current device and you will be able to take advantage of all the work when you buy the Canadian version of iPhone 2 next year for half the price.

[1] Yes, I realize that DoCoMo's network may be technically incompatible with American carriers, but it was just an example.

 

[linuxos77]

well, what do you expect???!!

'm starting to get sick of the complaints about the 1.1.1. What the hell do you expect? You buy their hardware, if you want to go off on your own and install 3rd party apps, then you're also taking over support of the device yourself. If you only installed 3rd party apps (ie you didn't do the SIM hack) then you're back to what you paid for, an iPhone the way Apple intended it.

If you did the SIM hack and installed 1.1.1 then you deserve to be "bricked". The SIM hack involved re-flashing the firmware on your iPhone modem hardware with a custom one, Why should Apple test/code their iPhone firmware with your now custom (ie non Apple) modem firmware??!! If I reflash my Linksys router firmware to a non Linksys firmware will they still support me??? No they won't.

 

[macenforcer]

I am not a lawyer or anything so I was wondering how do you "Hack" a physical piece of property that you own? What I mean by that is you 'own it' so you can not hack it...if apple owned the phone and you started messing with it then it would considered "Hacked" since you did not fully own the phone...you were just borrowing it from them. So if you fully own the phone and apple does not own any part of that phone then it can not ever be Hacked

Now if Apple was to make the phone inoperable (like they did with this lock down) they have in fact HACKED the phone that you own?

so who then is evil?

Finally someone gets it! Thank you.

 

[macUser2007]

... What if somebody made a third party spyware app that placed a call and turned your iPhone into a "bug". The app could keep the screen black, and you would have no way of knowing that you were being recorded. Or what if an app secretly recorded your passwords and emailed them to an identity theif.

I can see lots of reasons why third party apps can be dangerous.

LOL, throw away your computer, pronto!

And what if someone pickpocketed your iPhone and made obscene calls to GW from it?! Get rid of the iPhone.

Oh, and lock the doors and stay home, and don't answer the door for anyone....

Phew! Geez!!!!!

 

[macUser2007]

'm starting to get sick of the complaints about the 1.1.1. ... If you did the SIM hack and installed 1.1.1 then you deserve to be "bricked"....

Yeah! Praise the Lord (Steve Jobs) and pass the Kool Aid! Yeah!!!

 

[linuxos77]

Yeah! Praise the Lord (Steve Jobs) and pass the Kool Aid! Yeah!!!

So, if I mod my XBox.... Car.... anything, and then the vendor performs maintenance under the assumption the hardware is as shipped upon purchase, are they responsible to honor my warranty??

 

[guzhogi]

Anyone else feel like Steve Jobs is kinda like President Bush? Take away liberties from the people so as to protect said people from bad outside sources?

 

[ngdesign]

I smell a lawsuit coming and fast. I was just in the apple store and a guy was in there with his locked iphone because of this update. They told him he hacked it and there was nothing he could do. He was yelling like mad. I felt bad for him. Its freakin wrong of apple and they deserve to get sued.

True..
The truth is we paid for the phone, and it's ours.
And we didn't pay to "rent" the iphone.