You can thank the hackers for that, no? In January Steve said they have a zillion patents on it and they plan to protect them. Pretty obvious from the start their attitude toward this stuff.
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iPhone 1.1.1 Aftermath
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You can thank the hackers for that, no? In January Steve said they have a zillion patents on it and they plan to protect them. Pretty obvious from the start their attitude toward this stuff.
I don't think you're right on this one. Closing up the holes killed the hacks.
We need the holes closed, I have passwords on my phone. I want them protected more than I want malware or symbian like junk on my iPhone.
That being said, if Apple did actually go out of their way to brick the sim unlockers I say, "Way to go Apple!"
That is the kind of aggressive action I like to see in a company like Apple. Take no prisoners!!
Look, Apple's not going to sue anyone regardless. They'd look so bad it'd be ridiculous.
I see your point: that it'd be impossible to prove, but that's moot because my point is: technically, under the DMCA, bypassing iPhone DRM to do anything but use other wireless networks is illegal.
That was my only point--that it's technically illegal. Ya'll are getting a little too attached to the notion that everything has to be legal to be OK. I think you're also paranoid if you think the legality of iPhone hacking alters the situation.
The only reason I even MENTIONED the legality of hacking is because someone in this thread said it was perfectly legal. I was reminding everybody that No: You lost that right in 1998 when Clinton signed the DMCA (Republican congress too ?? Doesn't matter, it's not about politics).
I think the DMCA is wrong and unconstitutional, but I don't think I'm wrong to say that the iPhone hacks unrelated to the SIM cards (such as jailbreaking for the sake of apps) are illegal according to the letter of that law.
Apple releasing an update when they even SAID it would probably break your 3rd party hacks is totally legal. If you want support from Apple, you have to play by their rules and pay them lots of money. That's the way it's always been.
OK in order to initiate the buffer overflow, you have to have the iPhone plugged into a PC.
Are you really defending Apple on this?
OK here's the clincher: If Apple disabled Apps thinking that they were malware (which is ridiculous, considering there isn't any iPhone malware out to take advantage of this), why didn't they DELETE THEM!?
That's right, the update does not delete 3rd party apps, it disables them. Oh, I guess that makes Apple "negligent", right? They're not deleting all that evil malware that got in magically through PC <--> iPhone syncing.
They disabled the apps because a number of them offered alternatives to paying more money to Apple/AT&T. By this I'm referring to IM clients (alternative to SMS) and ringtones (Apple makes a buck on each, plus you have to buy the song on iTMS).
Very interesting engadget article, but no one will read it or care except this very small segment of iPhone owners...I could barely get through it..
The new and improved Black Apple
Is it just me or does this trend all seem a bit coincidental with the current shift from white Macs to Black & Silver Macs?
It's all well and cool when Apple ordains to put out products that do everything we need them to do and keeps them locked down. Original iPod is a prime example. But let's face it, the iPhone is practically a handheld UMPC. Of course it can do more, and if Apple can't support more diverse applications they should put a little more effort into pulling in third party developers. Heck even a token announcement that xyz developer will be releasing something, anything, some distant day in the future would give us as least the hope that Jobso isn't planning to rule the platform with tyrannical control.
What's the point of "thinking different" if we can only have what Steve Jobs wants?
Is it just me or does this trend all seem a bit coincidental with the current shift from white Macs to Black & Silver Macs?
It's all well and cool when Apple ordains to put out products that do everything we need them to do and keeps them locked down. Original iPod is a prime example. But let's face it, the iPhone is practically a handheld UMPC. Of course it can do more, and if Apple can't support more diverse applications they should put a little more effort into pulling in third party developers. Heck even a token announcement that xyz developer will be releasing something, anything, some distant day in the future would give us as least the hope that Jobso isn't planning to rule the platform with tyrannical control.
What's the point of "thinking different" if we can only have what Steve Jobs wants?
Is it just me or does this trend all seem a bit coincidental with the current shift from white Macs to Black & Silver Macs?
It's all well and cool when Apple ordains to put out products that do everything we need them to do and keeps them locked down. Original iPod is a prime example. But let's face it, the iPhone is practically a handheld UMPC. Of course it can do more, and if Apple can't support more diverse applications they should put a little more effort into pulling in third party developers. Heck even a token announcement that xyz developer will be releasing something, anything, some distant day in the future would give us as least the hope that Jobso isn't planning to rule the platform with tyrannical control.
What's the point of "thinking different" if we can only have what Steve Jobs wants?
Exactly. Anyone notice that "think different" is no longer an apple slogan? Its gone for good. Time to think like Steve.
Reading through some of the comments, I get the feeling all Steve Jobs has to do, is issue a press-release call for a gathering in Guyana, free Kool-Aid included.
Then there'll be a lot fewer, and perhaps more sensible, posts here
Then there'll be a lot fewer, and perhaps more sensible, posts here
What makes that serious, one could ask.
Q. "What do you know about engadget?"
A. "What is it?"
Really. This is so tempest in teapot. Buy another iPhone or a couple of 3G Nanos or something, help poor old staggering-to-bank Apple make enough money to QC the new iPhone apps piling up on their desks...the ones they'll probably sell in the iTunes store when they get done rolling out Leopard and finish up a few other little chores they have on their plates.
I think there is a very good reason Apple is locking down third-party app development: at&t. Ok, it's not a good reason, but I'm sure it is the reason. Think about this from at&t's money-grubbing side. If I'm a developer, and I have a SDK so I may create my own iPhone app and share it with the world, what's to stop me from making a iChat program? Or a Skype implementation? That would "rob" at&T of their SMS and voice plan profit stream. I could see at&t basically putting as part of the contract with Apple and agreement that only "approved" third-paty apps can get on so they can keep tight control over their artificial features (ringtones, anyone?).
Well, I don't know about you but I am part of the marketplace... I bought two iPhones right after the price dropped. I love it. I upgraded to 1.1.1 without a hitch. If you look at the marketplace and in general the population of the world then you will see that you and I (people with knowledge of computers/technology) are actually very much in the minority. Most of the people in the world simply do not give a s&*( about the iPhone or 3rd party apps for it. They have sold what 1 million phones... There are over 6 billion people in the world. In the world there are only about 2 billion cell phones. That means about 2/3 of the world don't even use cell phone technology. Hmm... Well if we look at the numbers...
1 million / 2 billion * 100 = 0.05%
And of those complaining about their iPhone... I think I saw a number earlier on this thread of something like 10,000...
10,000 / 1 million * 100 = 1%..
So what you are saying is the marketplace is going to move because 1% of the 0.05% of cell phone users that own an iPhone had an issue...
Get a life People... First the iPhones significance is highly overrated... Yes I love mine and I think its great but it's not for everybody. I would not be surprised to find out that Steve is anxiously waiting to see what the fall out of this discussion is... He's probably biting his nails and trying to figure out if the fans are up or are the detractors are up... NOT!
Without "Hobbyist" we wouldn't have had VisiCalc. The FIRST Killer app of the Apple II, and put APPLE on the map.
Apple wouldn't be where they are today withouth third party application writers *ESPECIALLY* "Hobbyists." Shame that Jobs and Co. forget these things. Shame that mindless Apple apologists continue to defend something regardless of how wrong Apple really is right now.
Sure, it may be a "small minority" who really do this, but word of mouth spreads. It spreads rapidly.
w00master
I don't buy this at all. AT&T offers phones in which you are allowed to install THIRD PARTY APPLICATIONS. I cannot see why AT&T would restrict Apple on this. Personally, I really think it's because of Steve Jobs and his controlling nature, nothing more and nothing less.
w00master
iPhone Hacking Article
My friend emailed this article this morning, still reading it now but thought I'd post it in case any one finds this of interest...
Annie Oakley (played by Steve Jobs): Anything you can hack, I can lock better. I can code anything better than you.
Frank Butler (played by a chorus of anonymous hackers): No you cant!
Oakley: Yes I can! .
So it stretches the brain to think of Ethel Merman wearing a black turtleneck and jeans. Then again, Theres No Business Like Show Business could just as well have been written for Mr. Jobs.
In any case, there is certainly a battle of the egos between Apple and the hacking community over the iPhone. And this weekend, some sharpshooting coders have been able to restore at least some of the modifications to their iPhones that Apple had wiped away.
To recap the story: Last Thursday Apple released an upgrade to the iPhone firmware (the code that controls the phone operations). Users that had installed unauthorized software, found their new programs unusable. Those who had unlocked their phones to use networks other than AT&Tin violation of their agreement with apple-could not use their phones at all. In other words, their iPhones had been bricked.
Then, a user of the Hackintosh Forum who goes by the screen name KMAC1985 discovered a rather peculiar maneuver: If you hold down the power button and the home button on the phone for 10 seconds, then release the power button, the phone will enter a state that will allow it to restore the 1.0.2 software from a connected computer. (The details are here. For the visual, here is a music video tutorial.)
Users are reporting in forum comments that this can take several hours, and that it works for some phones but not others. (See coverage from The Unofficial Apple Weblog and Gizmodo.)
The forums seem to indicate that by downgrading the firmware to the previous version, iPhones can again use third-party applications. If a phone had been frozen by Apples firmware update, this procedure will allow it again to operate as music and video players and connect to a Wi-Fi network. The restoring the 1.0.2 firmware alone will let a phone connect to AT&T or any other cellular network.
Jesus Diaz, a reporter for Gizmodo, reports that he has been able to make calls again from his previously bricked iPhone. This involves, among other steps, using a modified SIM chip called a Turbo SIM. Commenters here seem to think this is a difficult solution.
Meanwhile the IPhone Dev Team, a loose collection of hackers organized through this Web site, says it is hard at work creating new hacks that will make it easier to install unauthorized applications, fix bricked iPhones, and continue to unlock iPhones.
The comment sections to our previous posts on the iPhone upgrade (here, here and here) have seen active debate over the legitimacy of modifying iPhones. Some argue that the hackers are simply defending their rights to use the hardware they bought. Others say that since Apple made clear that the iPhone could be used only on the AT&T network and only with its official software, the hackers simply shouldnt have bought one expecting an open device.
From a literal point of view, I see the point of the latter argument. Id have a hard time arguing that Apple misled iPhone buyers.
Even so, Im not sure that Apple needs to be playing so tough. Apples policy is that if your iPhone has been turned into a brick, buy a new one. But couldnt the company, at least, release software that restores iPhones to their original subservient state?
More important, Im not sure it is a tenable position in the long term to maintain such an adversarial role with a group of customers. The iPhone captures peoples imagination because it offers a flexible interface on a small device, and there have been dozens of nifty applications developed for it so far.
If Apple doesnt create a way for developers to create new applications, this war will get uglier. But weve seen this musical before:
Frank Butler: I can drink my liquor
faster than a flicker.
Annie Oakley: I can drink it quicker
and get even sicker!
My friend emailed this article this morning, still reading it now but thought I'd post it in case any one finds this of interest...
Annie Oakley (played by Steve Jobs): Anything you can hack, I can lock better. I can code anything better than you.
Frank Butler (played by a chorus of anonymous hackers): No you cant!
Oakley: Yes I can! .
So it stretches the brain to think of Ethel Merman wearing a black turtleneck and jeans. Then again, Theres No Business Like Show Business could just as well have been written for Mr. Jobs.
In any case, there is certainly a battle of the egos between Apple and the hacking community over the iPhone. And this weekend, some sharpshooting coders have been able to restore at least some of the modifications to their iPhones that Apple had wiped away.
To recap the story: Last Thursday Apple released an upgrade to the iPhone firmware (the code that controls the phone operations). Users that had installed unauthorized software, found their new programs unusable. Those who had unlocked their phones to use networks other than AT&Tin violation of their agreement with apple-could not use their phones at all. In other words, their iPhones had been bricked.
Then, a user of the Hackintosh Forum who goes by the screen name KMAC1985 discovered a rather peculiar maneuver: If you hold down the power button and the home button on the phone for 10 seconds, then release the power button, the phone will enter a state that will allow it to restore the 1.0.2 software from a connected computer. (The details are here. For the visual, here is a music video tutorial.)
Users are reporting in forum comments that this can take several hours, and that it works for some phones but not others. (See coverage from The Unofficial Apple Weblog and Gizmodo.)
The forums seem to indicate that by downgrading the firmware to the previous version, iPhones can again use third-party applications. If a phone had been frozen by Apples firmware update, this procedure will allow it again to operate as music and video players and connect to a Wi-Fi network. The restoring the 1.0.2 firmware alone will let a phone connect to AT&T or any other cellular network.
Jesus Diaz, a reporter for Gizmodo, reports that he has been able to make calls again from his previously bricked iPhone. This involves, among other steps, using a modified SIM chip called a Turbo SIM. Commenters here seem to think this is a difficult solution.
Meanwhile the IPhone Dev Team, a loose collection of hackers organized through this Web site, says it is hard at work creating new hacks that will make it easier to install unauthorized applications, fix bricked iPhones, and continue to unlock iPhones.
The comment sections to our previous posts on the iPhone upgrade (here, here and here) have seen active debate over the legitimacy of modifying iPhones. Some argue that the hackers are simply defending their rights to use the hardware they bought. Others say that since Apple made clear that the iPhone could be used only on the AT&T network and only with its official software, the hackers simply shouldnt have bought one expecting an open device.
From a literal point of view, I see the point of the latter argument. Id have a hard time arguing that Apple misled iPhone buyers.
Even so, Im not sure that Apple needs to be playing so tough. Apples policy is that if your iPhone has been turned into a brick, buy a new one. But couldnt the company, at least, release software that restores iPhones to their original subservient state?
More important, Im not sure it is a tenable position in the long term to maintain such an adversarial role with a group of customers. The iPhone captures peoples imagination because it offers a flexible interface on a small device, and there have been dozens of nifty applications developed for it so far.
If Apple doesnt create a way for developers to create new applications, this war will get uglier. But weve seen this musical before:
Frank Butler: I can drink my liquor
faster than a flicker.
Annie Oakley: I can drink it quicker
and get even sicker!
The specific hole that was exploited in this case was one that only existed during the period of time that there was a direct USB connection between the iPhone and a PC. So in order for malevolent forces to potentially exploit that hole to steal your passwords, they'd have to already have physical access to it.
On that note, I assume you've already put a personal passcode on the iPhone so that a physical thief would not be able to steal your personal information directly through the main user interface. If that is the case, I guess I can understand where you're coming from in wanting to be able to further extend that protection by preventing said thief from being able to access that personal information even through a USB cable.
But then again, coming strictly from a privacy perspective, Apple could make it so that the iPhone's USB port simply will not enumerate itself with the host PC while the passcode lock is in place. Then you'd still have privacy (the PC cannot communicate with the iPhone in any way, shape or form until USB enumeration has taken place), and there'd still be the opportunity to install additional software if the spirit moves you.
If the spirit doesn't move you, then you don't have to install said software. There... privacy concerns taken care of.
This says it all in the nutshell. If you have a bricked iPhone you shouldn't have installed the update or the 3rd party software. Suck up the loses and get another iPhone or stick with your current service provider. Suing Apple will result in nothing, nor is it Apple's fault for bricking the phone.
It's All a Matter of Persperctive
On July 26 no copmany had a product on the market that would do what Iphone provides. On August 3 there was a clamor from the fringes that, in spite of thes innovation, they were not satisfied, but would modify things regardless of the consequences. Well, they have met the enemy and is themselves.
With only two non-regional GSM networks in the US, and neither supplying broad reaching 3G services, both the unlock and Edge complaints are substantially moot. For those who travel extensively, prepaid plans from the authorized Iphone suppliers are an alternative, not a full solution, but time will manage the eventual fixes.
Patience will resolve most issues and result in the best product. The computer industry is not like the old auto industry that locked up the 'switch starter' for twenty years preventing innovation, features are on the horizon, so enjoy the sunrise for a while.
On July 26 no copmany had a product on the market that would do what Iphone provides. On August 3 there was a clamor from the fringes that, in spite of thes innovation, they were not satisfied, but would modify things regardless of the consequences. Well, they have met the enemy and is themselves.
With only two non-regional GSM networks in the US, and neither supplying broad reaching 3G services, both the unlock and Edge complaints are substantially moot. For those who travel extensively, prepaid plans from the authorized Iphone suppliers are an alternative, not a full solution, but time will manage the eventual fixes.
Patience will resolve most issues and result in the best product. The computer industry is not like the old auto industry that locked up the 'switch starter' for twenty years preventing innovation, features are on the horizon, so enjoy the sunrise for a while.
A lot of comments in this thread have said that Apple will keep doing what it's doing as long as people keep buying iPhones. I was thinking that hopefully enough people will hack their iPhones so that Apple will take notice and finally change their strategy and let there be 3rd party apps and let people make their own ringtones in Garageband or something. IMO, Apple really needs to stop being such a control freak and let people do more of they want to their iPhones & other Apple products. Probably won't happen, but hopefully!
I'll admit, I'm not one to just settle with what's available. If there's something that can be done better, I'll say it. I find many people are too apathetic and lazy to make things better for themselves and other people. Why settle for something that's okay when you can work for something great?
I'll admit, I'm not one to just settle with what's available. If there's something that can be done better, I'll say it. I find many people are too apathetic and lazy to make things better for themselves and other people. Why settle for something that's okay when you can work for something great?
Very good point. Isn't Apple all about the developers, which is why they seed out beta copies of Leopard and have WWDC's? So what is it about the iPhone that is so precious to Apple in keeping out third party app's? Forget about unlocking issues, I'm talking about simply putting another program on the device, just like installing a program on OS X or even Palm devices. Am I missing something about why Apple doesn't want it in the first place?
Why on earth would you think that Steve personally even cares about such a small minority of people... Apple most likely wants to lock down the iPhone so when my parents get an iPhone and surf to a malicious web site it does not use a vulnerability in some 3rd party app to gain access. That would be a much bigger scream from the population than us complaining that we can't at the moment use our skype software or our games...
I think that just like MacOSX is open to 3rd party developers that eventually the iPhone version of it will be too... Just let them do it in a secure and controlled manner.
whiskerdreams
The only fact that we have is that Apple told people two weeks in advance that the update was going to shutdown 3rd party apps and hacks
we can not ASSUME anything more IE. that they did this to control security or some other worthwhile point
Sooo the result of this fact is that they went out of their way to PUNISH a very small (even by your measure) group of creative individuals for no apparent reason other then they violated the Apple credo to "Think Differently" ...whooops they did not violate that credo they violated the term sheet that some lawyer wrote up
I know that you are the Demi-god so please do not punish me for not agreeing with you
The only fact that we have is that Apple told people two weeks in advance that the update was going to shutdown 3rd party apps and hacks
we can not ASSUME anything more IE. that they did this to control security or some other worthwhile point
Sooo the result of this fact is that they went out of their way to PUNISH a very small (even by your measure) group of creative individuals for no apparent reason other then they violated the Apple credo to "Think Differently" ...whooops they did not violate that credo they violated the term sheet that some lawyer wrote up
I know that you are the Demi-god so please do not punish me for not agreeing with you
Demi-gods are just people who pay money to contribute to the site, so don't worry. Speak your mind in line with the forum rules.
Anyway, onwards with the iPhone aftermath, such as it is.