However phone unlocking has a special exception under that law. So maybe you should read up as well.
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iPhone 1.1.1 Aftermath
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However phone unlocking has a special exception under that law. So maybe you should read up as well.
I don't feel sorry for him in the least.
http://www.iphoneatlas.com/2007/09/...d-to-be-broken-by-next-apple-firmware-update/
Let see... he installs hackware that exploits a buffer flow vulnerability on the device, and when Apple fixes the vulnerability (or aren't they supposed to do that?), ka-boom. As a stockholder, if Apple were to cave to that, I'd go thermal.
You want a 'smart phone' on which you can install malware and adware to your heart's content? There are a million of them out there. My guess is 99% of users don't want their device to cater to the fringe base.
So what? Once the notion gets lodged in the public psyche that Apple will prevent you from customizing your phone but Nokia et. al. will let you do whatever you want, the iPhone will be dead meat in the market place. It doesn't even matter if it's true; it only matters if most people believe it. If Apple doesn't straighten up and fly right real quick on this one, they will go down in flames.
1.1.1 is on the verge of turning the iPhone from a Mustang into an Edsel.
LMAO @ you. "Get real"? First, no, installing third party apps is NOT messing with the phone's native software. Second, if any one is acting inappropriately it is you. Show some respect, do NOT talk to me like that, I do not deserve it and neither would you. If anyone needs a lesson in acting like an adult, it is you.
Hrm...
First of all I am not a lawyer and I did not say that they could be held liable, but correct me if I am wrong, didn't apple have to have an agreement similar to that in order to sell music on itunes. Last I checked when I buy music from itunes it does not have a built in feature for me to give that music away, I have to use clever tricks to do that.
Also, this is a capitalist country, companies will do what makes sense for them to make money and keep their shareholders happy, most of the people who complain about this or that company not being open do not work from free, last I checked. How much R&D money did any of the complainers invest into any of the products M$ or Apple has ever put out. I think that if our taxes were paying for the development of those products , then they would have an arguement, other than that, enjoy the iphone for what it is: A LUXURY, not a god given right.
First of all I am not a lawyer and I did not say that they could be held liable, but correct me if I am wrong, didn't apple have to have an agreement similar to that in order to sell music on itunes. Last I checked when I buy music from itunes it does not have a built in feature for me to give that music away, I have to use clever tricks to do that.
Also, this is a capitalist country, companies will do what makes sense for them to make money and keep their shareholders happy, most of the people who complain about this or that company not being open do not work from free, last I checked. How much R&D money did any of the complainers invest into any of the products M$ or Apple has ever put out. I think that if our taxes were paying for the development of those products , then they would have an arguement, other than that, enjoy the iphone for what it is: A LUXURY, not a god given right.
Do you really think Apple needs saving?? From a fringe customer base?
Why does everyone think an innovator like Apple just makes snap, stupid decisions? They are all over this and they are making the decisions that are best for their future and their stockholders' futures (i.e. the iPhones future). Nokia, Sony/Erricson, Moto, etc., are facing a very uncertain future, and the hacker community can not rescue them or "save" Apple.
Read my post about this obligation theory and how a third party cannot breach such a contract.
1) ?
2)Regarding criminal damage, you'd have to be able to prove Apple intentionally set out to break the phone. If they did, shame on them (for many reasons, see my post above p.3)
3) Correct.
4) Yes and no. The dummy who answers the phone simply says they don't have an unlock code, though official policy may be something different.
5) Exactly. I don't believe any sane or rational person expects Apple to protect 3rd party apps when upgrading firmware.
6 and 7) Yea!
How in the sweet and somewhat warm-ish world of Hades are you 'breaking DRM' by unlocking your bloody iphone?
DRM means digital rights management - applies to music and DVD's, not phones.
I hate to get personal, but I suspect a case of Recto-Cranial Inversion here.....
Jobs is a tool. Period. End of story. That company is getting to the point where I may very well look at ditching Apple in '09 when I start shopping for a new laptop. I don't need to stick with a company who has the attitude that they know best, and if you don't like it tough. These [bleep]hats need to remember: I'm the customer. They are the company. Frankly the arrigance of this company and Steve "I'm God" Jobs is quite amazing. Microsoft doesn't come close to Apple in terms of overall arrogance.
Ahh but there are too many Apple lapdogs out there who won't tell Apple to bugger off they they pull some underhanded crap. They will just make up some sort of BS excuse and argue it until heck freezes over. Which is why they continue to do this. (When the child is not punished for bad behavior they do not discontinue it.) This is your fault people. Thanks a lot.
Ahh but there are too many Apple lapdogs out there who won't tell Apple to bugger off they they pull some underhanded crap. They will just make up some sort of BS excuse and argue it until heck freezes over. Which is why they continue to do this. (When the child is not punished for bad behavior they do not discontinue it.) This is your fault people. Thanks a lot.
THANK YOU Elgruga!!! Quick, to-the-point, and any educated person cannot come up with any responce to those TOTALLY LEGITIMATE POINTS!
Also, I have heard enough from the Apple stockholders on here talking how proud they are with Apple and how they would "loose it" if Apple caved in to the 3rd party Apps... ENOUGH ALREADY... DROP THE POM-POMS!!! If you think for a moment that SJ is doing any of this for the stockholders... I've got a bridge for you all to invest in.
It is a bit of a shame, it hasn't deterred me from my iPhone plans (I'll be in the queue on day 1). 3rd party apps make it that little bit better. I wasn't planning on going overboard I just wanted a portable IM.
I hope Apple see the potential and release iChat for use in WiFi only areas as to not tread on 02's toes.
Ah well! Roll on whenever it's launched in England
I hope Apple see the potential and release iChat for use in WiFi only areas as to not tread on 02's toes.
Ah well! Roll on whenever it's launched in England
Great post. You're exactly right. Disabling third party apps did nothing but lower the market value of the phone! Perhaps it WAS just an innocent side effect of trying to block people from unlocking the phone- we'll never know I guess. I really wish that people would have never tried to unlock the phone. It clearly has major legal implications for everyone where as installing third party apps does not. And the result is we're all penalized now.
Of course, hacking aside, the larger issue that you alluded to is the attitude of not wanting to allow 3rd party apps and not providing an SDK.
I bought an iPhone, and I know what I bought. I won't complain, sue, ask for my money back, etc. I'm actually happy with the phone in general. But as I use the phone I'm realizing how under-utilized it really is. It was very cool, for a short while, to be able to install 3rd party apps. It would be so nice if this was a formal, supported way of doing business.
These developments have really flushed out the true, die hard Apple fan boys. Look, we all like Apple stuff here. Most of us are willing to give them the benefit of the doubt when something questionable happens. But some of the recent developments have been an order of magnitude larger than anything we've seen in the last few years. The true fan boys are clearly willing to ride the ship down. The rest of us see the writing on the wall- that this could be very bad for Apple if they don't loosen up a little. We're trying to send them a message. Sticking by someone who does stupid things doesn't help them any.
I compare this to the fact that some people think you should stand by your best friend no matter what. No matter what he does, you're not supposed to criticize him and you should always his decisions. Even if he's abusing his wife or something. I'm the type of person who doesn't buy that crap at all. If my friend is doing something stupid, I'm going to tell him in no uncertain terms.
You are only saying those words because you live outside the U.S. and probably are one of the iPhone users that got hosed (in your opinion). Was there anything in the book of rules that forced anyone to sit the phone on the cradle and update it, you knew what would happen so quit crying.
You call burning a cd a "clever trick"? I feel sorry for you.
That assumes that all company decision making is faultless. What happens when the company tries to do what is best for the company and its shareholders and ends up making a mistake? That can happen, you know (and does every day of the week).
I think it was a mistake on Apple's part to make the phones unusable. They should have checked to see if the phone is in the condition it needs to be in to upgrade and if not, the update process should have raised an exception and stopped.
In any case, I am talking people out of buying the iPhone and instead of buying it, to go with the Nokia N95.... my German friends, that is.
In any case, I am talking people out of buying the iPhone and instead of buying it, to go with the Nokia N95.... my German friends, that is.
Apparently at least 9377 as of this moment, but the numbers have been increasing rapidly every time I check: http://www.apptapp.com/survey/
The 3rd party applications on the iPhone work extremely well, in no way increase the difficulty of using the phone, and fill in a lot of the holes that Apple left.
You totally overestimate the degree to which the audience for this device gives a hoot about 'customizing'.
Over the course of the next year, iPhone/Touch users will find new applications (many filling gaps we all know about) popping up in their home screen regularly.
I've looked for years at the drivel available as 'applications' on existing phones, and wouldn't install them if my life depended on it (which it would have to, since app installation on most phones requires an advanced CS degree.)
Sorry, but this is a replay of the rebate whining. Apple has it right on this.
Digital rights management doesn't just refer to media.
Look it up. Here I'll save you the trouble.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management
"Digital rights management (DRM) is an umbrella term that refers to access control technologies used by publishers and other copyright holders to limit usage of digital media or devices."
DMCA (passed in 1998) says breaking DRM in most circumstances is illegal.
There is no exemption for the iphone, like someone else said.
EDIT:
I should add that I'm totally against the DMCA and I could give a crap what Apple does. You should have the right to do what you want and they should have the right to try and stop you. DMCA limits that liberty which really pisses me off.
I agree with your take on criminal damage.
My point 1 is that the iphone is a computer and communications device.
The computer bit is a non-essential, at this point in history, but the phone is an essential device, and even with no SIM, you still MUST have the ability to make an emergency call.
By bricking the whole dog and pony show, Apple may well be guilty of something a bit nasty - and illegal.
But, as X38 says above - its not what is right or wrong or illegal etc - its what the market believes - the headlines are on every lousy bad news sites already - APPLE destroys phones!
APPLE - PHONE WRECKER!
Thats what counts, and its dumb of Apple not to see this.
As someone aid, Nokia et al must be having a relaxing week-end on this 1.1.1 update news.
1) If my OS provider allows potential malware that's been installed via a security hole to remain, they're negligent.
2) You have no proof for your last statement.
I don't get all these analogies on here? iTunes sales have nothing to do or is it even remotely similar to unlocking a phone? If Apple gave away music they would have broken their agreements, etc etc and would have to pay for those songs. However if Apple sells a phone which is locked to a carrier (per agreement) and they make it a difficult process to unlock it then they've fulfilled their obligations (if they even exist; I haven't seen the deal). A third party cannot come in and breach a contract between Apple and ATT. So working with your analogy, if Apple gave away music to you then they are liable since they have the agreement. You have not broken any agreement with the music supplier because you have no contract with them. Sure, you may have received stolen property, but that is something totally different. Continuing though, if Apple locks the phone and makes it hard to unlock it they're golden. They're going above and beyond any possible obligation they have.
Second, if you don't know this most countries are capitalist, including the UK. I read and re-read your paragraph and don't understand exactly what you're attempting to say. However, I don't see how 3rd party apps hurt shareholders? In fact it increases the products' appeal to some. Unlocking, may or may not actually hurt the bottom line since it's possible they'll sell a hell of a lot more phones if they can be unlocked. I mean selling phones potentially world-wide sounds more profitable to me than a small share of user tariffs in four countries.
Again I don't advocate that Apple should work to protect 3rd party apps and unlocks in their updates, but it would be quite sad if they are working to intentionally break a working product (bad business, and a waste of resources).
The huge problem for me with the iPhone is that I will be forced to deal with the telco that puts the most money on the table. I'm used to deal with Apple and I have no problem wit this company what so eve. I have chosen Apple to be my sole supplier of electronics all because of their history, but with the iPhone Apple forces me to like their new bride of whom i also know the history. And that's the big mistake in this lock up. Everybody has different histories with telco's. The iPhone is not yet out in my country but if they choose another provider than my provider we have a problem as all other companies in my country can't top my providers service. Switching to another provider is like going back to windows and this scenario seems to be very posible as Apple seems to choose in telco's in europe not based on service, support or history but solely based on how much money they will get out of it. If i see companies in europe even rolling out EDGE for this phone I know for sure Apple is dealing with stupid people in europe.
I will not switch to another provider to be the owner of an iPhone!
What does MS have to be arrogant about? Hmmm. Lousy software? Hardware by multiple 3rd party developers that all work poorly? People don't buy Apple because of Jobs. They buy it because they love the product. If I want malware and mickey mouse apps, I'll switch to the Gate squad (or open windows on my mac). Until then, no thanks!
Jobs is a tool. Period. End of story. That company is getting to the point where I may very well look at ditching Apple in '09 when I start shopping for a new laptop. I don't need to stick with a company who has the attitude that they know best, and if you don't like it tough. These [bleep]hats need to remember: I'm the customer. They are the company. Frankly the arrigance of this company and Steve "I'm God" Jobs is quite amazing. Microsoft doesn't come close to Apple in terms of overall arrogance.
Ahh but there are too many Apple lapdogs out there who won't tell Apple to bugger off they they pull some underhanded crap. They will just make up some sort of BS excuse and argue it until heck freezes over. Which is why they continue to do this. (When the child is not punished for bad behavior they do not discontinue it.) This is your fault people. Thanks a lot.
Huh?? Are you serious?? You are willing to inconvenience yourself by getting a non-Apple laptop (something you truly may not want) just because you don't like the company's attitude and they don't practice business they way YOU want them to?
That's BS, that's like saying I won't buy from Sony because they cut trees down trees that are going extinct so I'll get something else even though I prefer Sony. I feel sorry for you guys sometimes.