iPhone 1.1.1 Aftermath

[russellb]

Iphone Unlock 3rd Party Apps

Personally I think it is very sad what's happening.

1) Apple fighting SIM unlocking.

I don't like it ! but I understand it. I live outside the US and have an unlocked Iphone but I totally understand and have no problem that they choose to protect their device from unlocking.

2) 3rd party apps

Now thats different

The Iphone is such a great device and until you use it you don't understand how great it is. To apple saying they have to protect the AT&T network etc CRAP then how about all the other smart PDA phones out there with free 3rd party apps and development ...

Look at the fantastic 3rd party development thats happened so quickly. That in itself must be some sort of record for developers adopting a platform ??

The Iphone if allowed to be open and grow could be one of the fastest and booming smart PDA phones out there and for some reason Apple is choosing to stunt it's growth.

Apple should come out with an SDK for the Iphone

If they are that worried about problems from 3rd party Apps then they should come up with their own Installer App, charge developers and vet all apps before allowing them onto the Apple installer.

Apple needs to get their act together and do what they need to do to allow 3rd party apps on the Iphone

IF THEY DONT, people will not put up with a locked , restricted Iphone for long.

At the moment everyone is putting up with it due to the fact that it's new, it's a great device and we can see the amazing possibilities for it.

But people won't put up with it forever. As fantastic as it is I find myself looking at Apple competitors and wondering if their open devices might better fill my needs.

Apple get your act together and don't stuff up your lead on a truly great product. We all know that just because a device is good does not mean it succeeds in the market long term.

We saw that the first time around with Macs and PC's, PC's were more open and had more 3rd party apps and programs and even though the PC was an inferior product it succeeded on the long run.

 

[Stella]

How in the sweet and somewhat warm-ish world of Hades are you 'breaking DRM' by unlocking your bloody iphone?

DRM means digital rights management - applies to music and DVD's, not phones.

I hate to get personal, but I suspect a case of Recto-Cranial Inversion here.....

The orginal poster is wrong.

You are not breaking the DMCA by unlocking your phone. Cell phones are excluded!

Hardware by multiple 3rd party developers that all work poorly?

Are you really suggesting the all PC hardware sucks. Over generalisation.

 

[X38]

Do you really think Apple needs saving?? .

Remember, this is the company that ushered in the personal computer era (Apple I & II) and the now universal GUI (LISA & Mac), yet somehow managed to fall to a low of 2% market share in the market that they more than any other company created. Much of that remarkable slide was self inflicted.

Yes, from time to time they do need saving from themselves.

 

[slackpacker]

right now 3 party apps suck they are just toys... who cares... I tried them..

 

[Mac OS X Ocelot]

I don't know anything about cell phones. I loathe phones, and my hate is magnified a hundred-fold of the cellular variety, but I was of the impression that there are dozens of cell phones that have to be used with certain carriers. Like the Razr or Krazr or anything with zr and a lot of others. The only reason people care about the iPhone's lockdown is because it's also an iPod. But the point of the iPhone is not that its an iPod but that it's a phone that plays music (with an iPod-like interface and nifty touch controls). If you don't like AT&T, then buy a Razr and an iPod Touch. Or buy an iPhone, hack it, and lose all support and updates from Apple and live with the knowledge that you're doing Satan's work.

 

[nja247]

Digital rights management doesn't just refer to media.

Look it up. Here I'll save you the trouble.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management
"Digital rights management (DRM) is an umbrella term that refers to access control technologies used by publishers and other copyright holders to limit usage of digital media or devices."

DMCA (passed in 1998) says breaking DRM in most circumstances is illegal.

There is no exemption for the iphone, like someone else said.

EDIT:

I should add that I'm totally against the DMCA and I could give a crap what Apple does. You should have the right to do what you want and they should have the right to try and stop you. DMCA limits that liberty which really pisses me off.

Go here http://www.copyright.gov/1201/index.html and read exemption 5.

 

[colinmack]

Digital rights management doesn't just refer to media.

Look it up. Here I'll save you the trouble.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management
"Digital rights management (DRM) is an umbrella term that refers to access control technologies used by publishers and other copyright holders to limit usage of digital media or devices."

DMCA (passed in 1998) says breaking DRM in most circumstances is illegal.

There is no exemption for the iphone, like someone else said.

Sorry, you're wrong, unlocking a phone to use on a different network is most definitely allowed as an exemption under the DMCA...

Look it up. Here I'll save you the trouble.

"The Exempted Classes
...
5. Computer programs in the form of firmware that enable wireless telephone handsets to connect to a wireless telephone communication network, when circumvention is accomplished for the sole purpose of lawfully connecting to a wireless telephone communication network."

http://www.copyright.gov/1201/docs/1201_recommendation.pdf

 

[elgruga]

Digital rights management doesn't just refer to media.

Look it up. Here I'll save you the trouble.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management
"Digital rights management (DRM) is an umbrella term that refers to access control technologies used by publishers and other copyright holders to limit usage of digital media or devices."

DMCA (passed in 1998) says breaking DRM in most circumstances is illegal.

There is no exemption for the iphone, like someone else said.

Read some more - the exemption is if the lock is ONLY for the purposes of a business model.
Apple and all wireless phones can NOT lock just to protect their business model, ie, their cash flow.
They can ONLY lock to protect their software, but locking the SIM is not part of their software.

Thats been my point through out this messy discussion.

Apple have NO RIGHT to lock the phone, but they have the right to defend their software; however making the CALLING operation of the phone break is easily criminal damage, imho.

Unlocking is CLEARLY allowed in the DMCA.

 

[GQB]

Jobs is a tool. Period. End of story. That company is getting to the point where I may very well look at ditching Apple in '09 when I start shopping for a new laptop. I don't need to stick with a company who has the attitude that they know best, and if you don't like it tough. These [bleep]hats need to remember: I'm the customer. They are the company. Frankly the arrigance of this company and Steve "I'm God" Jobs is quite amazing. Microsoft doesn't come close to Apple in terms of overall arrogance.
Ahh but there are too many Apple lapdogs out there who won't tell Apple to bugger off they they pull some underhanded crap. They will just make up some sort of BS excuse and argue it until heck freezes over. Which is why they continue to do this. (When the child is not punished for bad behavior they do not discontinue it.) This is your fault people. Thanks a lot.

Yeah... Apple was SOOOOO much better under Sculley and Gil when they gave away the store every time you turned around.
Apple is firing on all cylinders, and while a few geeks are crying about their custom porn viewer being wiped off of their phone, the entertainment and Consumer electronics industries are messing their diapers.

 

[chicagostars]

huh?

I smell a lawsuit coming and fast. I was just in the apple store and a guy was in there with his locked iphone because of this update. They told him he hacked it and there was nothing he could do. He was yelling like mad. I felt bad for him. Its freakin wrong of apple and they deserve to get sued.

Sued on what grounds? If you hack something, you need to live with the consequences of your actions.

 

[pale9]

hello all diaperheads that just HAD to install 1.1.1 ...

...when you had a perfectly good 1.02 with app.tap and maybe even simfree! while i am sure there will eventually be some kindof new hack, it would have been a way of 'sticking it to the man' if all of us just would have said NO to this update.

also hello to all apple shills on this site that have shown incredible creativity by coming up with 1001 reasons why a locked phone & att is good and why apple can simply do no harm....

 

[offwidafairies]

Wow this thread has created a lot of heat!
Lucky for me I think the iPhone is a big fat RIP OFF!!!
I hate any contract, especially phone contracts. I much prefer to live day by day and change my mind about things as better deals come up.
I think Apple has made a mistake by using one company per country. Silly. When I need a new phone I will buy it outright and it will not be locked to any contract.

 

[nja247]

Read some more - the exemption is if the lock is ONLY for the purposes of a business model.
Apple and all wireless phones can NOT lock just to protect their business model, ie, their cash flow.
They can ONLY lock to protect their software, but locking the SIM is not part of their software.

Thats been my point through out this messy discussion.

Apple have NO RIGHT to lock the phone, but they have the right to defend their software; however making the CALLING operation of the phone break is easily criminal damage, imho.

Unlocking is CLEARLY allowed in the DMCA.

Actually they CAN lock the phone, and they can continue to lock it, but it's not illegal for you to unlock it. What would be illegal is, again, if you could PROVE Apple broke your phone via an update solely because you legally unlocked it.

 

[megfilmworks]

Yeah... Apple was SOOOOO much better under Sculley and Gil when they gave away the store every time you turned around.
Apple is firing on all cylinders, and while a few geeks are crying about their custom porn viewer being wiped off of their phone, the entertainment and Consumer electronics industries are messing their diapers.

Absolutley! Stock is way up as well. Forget the mickey mouse 3rd party apps. I want a secure, reliable iPhone, with 3rd party apps approved by and/or developed by Apple. No hobbyists need apply!

 

[sjo]

See the point is it's not Apple, it's AT&T but so many people here feel the need to blame only the manufacturer of the phone and somehow leave poor AT&T alone.

well it actually is apple. they chose to enter into contract with att instead of selling the phone truly contract free. users gained visual voicemail (which actually could be implemented without the operator in most, if not all networks based on gsm), but if all this mess is just because of apples contract with att, it seems to me that users lost a lot more than they gained through the agreement.

apple could have changed the cell phone business, they chose not to because they wanted their part of the subscription fees, i.e., because of pure corporate greed. (for which they of course are entitled, but which usually is not a good consumer business practice in the long run).

 

[elgruga]

You are only saying those words because you live outside the U.S. and probably are one of the iPhone users that got hosed (in your opinion). Was there anything in the book of rules that forced anyone to sit the phone on the cradle and update it, you knew what would happen so quit crying.

Er - I do live outside the US, but I am still a human being, although not as good as I would be if only I were AMERICAN!

I didnt brick my iPhone - its working fine thanks, on 1.0.2.

I am not crying, although when I think of how much better I would be if I were an American, I do have to weep a little..........!

With Love from Canada, your slightly less arrogant neighbour to the North (thats the opposite way to Mexico)

 

[mikeinternet]

the 3rd party apps that will keep me from upgrading my phone...

1. games (lights out- such a great easy time-killing phone game, NES simulator, taptap revolution not my fav but well done enough to make it fun. and others.)

2. AIM (works so much nicer than any webapp)

3. not to mention a more customizable UI, voice note taking, sendsong - email songs plus ring-tone support directly from phone.

these alone are more important to me than mobile itunes store.

(OPEN 3RD PARTY DEVELOPMENT! PLEASE.)

 

[megfilmworks]

it would have been a way of 'sticking it to the man' if all of us just would have said NO to this update.
also hello to all apple shills on this site

If you want to "stick it to the man" then build your own iPhone. By the way the word "shill" implies being employed by Apple, while pretending not to be so one can profess a point beneficial to their employer.
Don't think there are any shills here. Just honest opinions on both sides.

 

[crees!]

Developers should just go on an iPhone strike

Considering there is no official SDK (forget the AJAX-Web dev) I don't think your suggesting would matter much since Apple is the only official developer.

LMAO @ you. "Get real"? First, no, installing third party apps is NOT messing with the phone's native software. Second, if any one is acting inappropriately it is you. Show some respect, do NOT talk to me like that, I do not deserve it and neither would you. If anyone needs a lesson in acting like an adult, it is you.

Cry a little? You are messing with the native software by installing apps. Where's Mencia when you need him.

 

[Mac OS X Ocelot]

Er - I do live outside the US, but I am still a human being, although not as good as I would be if only I were AMERICAN!

I didnt brick my iPhone - its working fine thanks, on 1.0.2.

I am not crying, although when I think of how much better I would be if I were an American, I do have to weep a little..........!

With Love from Canada, your slightly less arrogant neighbour to the North (thats the opposite way to Mexico)

Don't use sarcasm on Americans. We INVENTED sarcasm. Go back to your corner and think about why you weren't born American.

 

[elgruga]

Actually they CAN lock the phone, and they can continue to lock it, but it's not illegal for you to unlock it. What would be illegal is, again, if you could PROVE Apple broke your phone via an update solely because you legally unlocked it.

Yeah, sorry, I am getting a bit overheated!

Interesting though - I did legally unlock my phone.
Apple did deliberately send out 1.1.1 to glitch that.

Can I prove that last part - well, if I can prove that the Baseband is separate from the OSX part, then maybe.

Seems to me that the Baseband (radio part) uses a different firmware flash than the iPhone apps part - and Apple changed BOTH of them.

Why didnt they leave the Baseband firmware alone and just change the OS?
Then I would have a working cell phone that I could re-flash BACK to 1.0.2.

(I didnt use 1.1.1 of course, my iphone is doing great up here in the frozen north.

 

[X38]

You totally overestimate the degree to which the audience for this device gives a hoot about 'customizing'.
Over the course of the next year, iPhone/Touch users will find new applications (many filling gaps we all know about) popping up in their home screen regularly.
I've looked for years at the drivel available as 'applications' on existing phones, and wouldn't install them if my life depended on it (which it would have to, since app installation on most phones requires an advanced CS degree.)
Sorry, but this is a replay of the rebate whining. Apple has it right on this.

In the first place, anything I said is not a replay of the price cut whining. I did not post here about it, but I was emphatically of the opinion that the complaints about the price cut were unjustified whining and I was still perfectly happy with the price I paid even after the cut. (Thanks SJ for the $100 certificate anyhow.)

I've only been delving into the iphone 3rd party scene for less than 48 hours myself and already I have come across tons of stuff that makes me say "how did I ever live without that?!"
Go to http://iphone.nullriver.com/beta/ and give it a try. You will be amazed at how much more your iPhone can do. Even if you don't want to give it a try, at least look at what is available before complaining that you've never seen useful 3rd party phone apps.

The truly amazing thing is how quickly this developer community has sprung up, especially since they are essentially working in a hostile environment. Apple is being STUPID BEYOND BELIEF not to take advantage of this kind of enthusiasm!

As I said before, it doesn't matter a hoot if Apple is "within their rights". All that matters in the long run is how the marketplace perceives this issue.

 

[colinmack]

Sued on what grounds? If you hack something, you need to live with the consequences of your actions.

But...if you *legally* unlock your phone (specifically exempted in the DMCA), and Apple bricks it on purpose and damages it functionally as a result, they could most definitely be on shaky legal ground. Given that they are forcing a deactivation and altering the IMEI codes to flag the phones for refused service, it would be hard for them to argue that they aren't intentionally bricking it (changing the IMEI codes certainly implies that it's not an unintended side effect of the update).

Whether it bites them or not (either legally or through bad PR) is another matter entirely.

 

[mike12806]

Nothing New?

Wasn't SJ clear enough from the start that he only wanted applications via Safari? And that the iPhone was exclusive to ATT? No one was misled about anything. To the contrary, Apple shouldn't have to shoulder the burden of fixing iphones that might have been damaged by unauthorized apps/sim unlocking.

 

[ddubbo]

Absolutley! Stock is way up as well. Forget the mickey mouse 3rd party apps. I want a secure, reliable iPhone, with 3rd party apps approved by and/or developed by Apple. No hobbyists need apply!

You want, so don't install any apps except ones of Apple. And I want to do with my product anything I want, once I paid.If I want to make it less stable but more customized and user friendly - it' my right.