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iPhone 1.1.1 Harder to Hack?
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It's a little dismaying to see how many people there are defending Apple's behavior here. Their most-repeated claim, that third-party apps destabilize the network, is patently false (obviously other phones do it fine). The other arguments about it being "for our own good" don't make any sense either: if too many apps slow my iPhone or eat up the battery, I am free to uninstall apps. I don't need "protection" from my choices. And the encryption arguments fail for both kinds of reason: if I want encryption, I should be able to choose to have it or not, and in any case, other phones manage quite fine. Sure, I understand corporate-greed arguments for why Apple wants the revenue of apps for itself, but that's not a justification, just an (obvious) explanation. And I don't see any reason for any user to prefer having fewer choices, since any restriction Apple might enforce, one could simply choose. There is no good argument for restricting our freedom to do what we want with our own computer.
(Obligatory flame-retardant: I've used Macs since my Mac Plus in 87.)
(Obligatory flame-retardant: I've used Macs since my Mac Plus in 87.)
Apple spent 6 years modifying the OS they brought from NeXT (which would sell for $129) so it could work with third party software from Adobe, Quark, Microsoft (which sold for $400+).
All this work was done because those great third parties companies "who made OS X what it is today" didn't want to do the work (which they would have to do eventually anyway!) to port their apps across to the new system.
When Mac OS X was released there were initially very few 3rd party apps (Stone Design, Omni, Panic, the usual suspects excluded).
Apple produced apps to add value on to the OS. First with iLife, then the Pro Apps (like Final Cut, Aperture) and now with their productivity apps (iWork). These helped keep the Mac platform strong.
During this time third parties have begun to take more of an active interest. I completely agree with what you are saying. There are some very talented developers out there and the more great software they produce all the better for us as users. But I would caution dressing up the all third party developers as the knights in shining armour and "saviours of Mac OS X".
You know Apple. Tight lipped until it's ready. When it's ready, it'll be announced. If they announced it now, everyone would whine, "When is it coming?!" all the time. It would be awful.
Just wait folks. Soon as the next iPhone model is released with features we'd really like to have, then... guess what? The previous iPhone model will not get any software upgrades.
Yeah. Anyone remember the time when adding songs to a on-the-go playlist came to the next gen iPod but not the previous? Exactly... This kind of crap I don't agree with.
Amen, and well said! 3rd party apps have added value and enjoyment to my phone, and I'll pass on any future updates until they give me more value than I'm losing by giving up my 3rd party apps and the ability to customize the look and sound of my phone. That didn't happen in this update, for sure!
And...yes, there a several text versions of the Bible out there. I use the Books app and the WEB version, pending a real native Bible app (see my thread on this topic elsewhere in this forum). Works great for the time being.
Hopefully Apple will spend some development time on some new, truly useful apps that are noticeably absent at this time and transform this phone from the coolest phone on the block to the most useful handheld device ever made, which it certainly has the potential to become.
In the meantime...I'm a happy guy with a pretty cool phone. All you party line hackhaters just leave me alone and keep watching your YouTube videos.
I agree. So I am baffled why Apple insists on not allowing the full potential of the iPhone to be realized by 3rd party apps. Even if they weren't free, and Apple got a cut, it would be better than the lack of features that are on a currently unhacked iPhone.
Marketing rarely gets the answer right. I remember someone telling me once that our cable modem users were downloading pirated music and videos because they wanted digital content. When he tried to tell me that these same users would be happy to PAY a premium for that same content, I told him he was missing the point, and to leave me out of his twisted dreams.
I didn't call you a fanboy, so why call me ignorant? I'm not ignorant. I've watched Apple for a long time, and they are doing exactly what a corporation SHOULD do. That doesn't mean that I agree with it, and it doesn't mean that I think that they shouldn't allow 3rd party apps.
Wow, there are too many posts on this. I'm wasting my time here instead of doing more important things.
-jt2
They showed Apple their Ass, Apple Showed Their Power
Not all the 3rd party application developers were irresponsible. But all it takes is a very small few that abuse the freedom to ruin it for everyone else.
The iPhone Development IRC channels were a horror.
People freely talking about how to write DDoS back doors into applications such as NES.app. There you are munching dots in Pac Man and some ******* is making money selling access to your iPhone to some russian mobsters so they could charge someone to use your iPhone (and thousands of others) to DDoS some network.
Other folks were talking about how to write SPAM software, others viruii..
And of course the unlockers. Before the public unlock was released Phil was willing to take a neutral stance on 3rd party apps. But certain individuals showed Apple their collective asses and taunted Apple to shut them down.
Well Apple showed them who had the real power today.
Someday someone will write a book or a play, title it something like "The rise and fall of the JesusPhone". Such figures as Geohot, Erica Sadun, Martyn will be there carrying spears and poking them into the side of the JesusPhone, forcing its death/re-birth.
Hopefully the responsible individuals will get a shot at working for Apple. I personally already miss Navizon, eDict, Blackjack, Apollo, Book... hopefully in the coming weeks Apple can reach out to these projects and find some way to work with them to bring those technologies to the iPhone.
Not all the 3rd party application developers were irresponsible. But all it takes is a very small few that abuse the freedom to ruin it for everyone else.
The iPhone Development IRC channels were a horror.
People freely talking about how to write DDoS back doors into applications such as NES.app. There you are munching dots in Pac Man and some ******* is making money selling access to your iPhone to some russian mobsters so they could charge someone to use your iPhone (and thousands of others) to DDoS some network.
Other folks were talking about how to write SPAM software, others viruii..
And of course the unlockers. Before the public unlock was released Phil was willing to take a neutral stance on 3rd party apps. But certain individuals showed Apple their collective asses and taunted Apple to shut them down.
Well Apple showed them who had the real power today.
Someday someone will write a book or a play, title it something like "The rise and fall of the JesusPhone". Such figures as Geohot, Erica Sadun, Martyn will be there carrying spears and poking them into the side of the JesusPhone, forcing its death/re-birth.
Hopefully the responsible individuals will get a shot at working for Apple. I personally already miss Navizon, eDict, Blackjack, Apollo, Book... hopefully in the coming weeks Apple can reach out to these projects and find some way to work with them to bring those technologies to the iPhone.
I'm pretty sure they have distributed 3rd party software for the iPod in the form of games through iTunes. I don't believe all the iPod games were developed in-house. Then there's the obvious, that OS X on macs is a pretty amazingly open OS in terms of who can develop for it. Not so much in terms of what they let their software be on, but that's a very different issue.
I doubt Apple will make an SDK. If they do, it'll probably be in 5 years. But it's not a foregone conclusion, not the end of the story.
I don't think Apple showed them anything, sorry. They might have pulled a "gotcha" on a couple of (frankly incompetent human beings) who thought that they could just update. For the vast majority of other unlockers, I would say they still have their butts held high and bare towards 1 Infinite Loop. The iPhone is arguably much more useful with Apollo IM, Pushr, some amazing games, and a developing software platform of 3rd party stuff, than it's going to be with a couple of keyboard niceties, a slightly louder speaker, and a crippled little version of the iTunes Music Store. unlockers still have their phones, and working just fine, and there is nothing Apple can do about it. Apple's just punching at the water, and I think they're just going to aggravate their most loyal users. The guys that are so into their iPhones that they customize them up are apple's biggest fans, no question.
And I really, really don't see any kind of amnesty for 3rd party apps, especially not the most useful ones--IM clients. Apple would get strung up by their heels by AT&T over that--cutting into our SMS revenues, how dare you!
I have all of these issues and have NEVER EVER installed a single hack on my virgin iPhone running 1.0.2. I seriously think the iPhone OS was rushed.
Oh I remember, such BS. And you're dead right about things like that happening to the iPhone. But I'm much more willing to shell out cash for another phone than another iPod. Still sucks though.
All encryption is crackable given sufficient time.
A distributed computing project took 1765 days to crack a length 64 key. They say that :
"Our peak rate of 270,147,024 kkeys/sec is equivalent to 32,504 800MHz Apple PowerBook G4 laptops or 45,998 2GHz AMD Athlon XP machines or (to use some rc5-56 numbers) nearly a half million Pentium Pro 200s."
Thats for a 64 bit key. Lets make a decent estimate and say that a c2d is 6x as gast as an 800mhz g4. Thats stilll more than 5000 machines working for almost 2000 days.
Now imagine that you have an AES encryption system with a 128 length key.
That requires 2^64 times longer (about 2 x 10^19)
I can create an AES (Rijndael, which is a much stronger system than RSA) keypair and use it to encrypt something. If I pick the right key length, it can't be cracked before the end of the universe.
If they want to encrypt the firmware, you can't just crack it.
Yes, you are right - 3rd parties have created software for the iPod, but Apple have done this in a controlled way - they pick and choose. They don't like plain old Joe or Kate creating killer apps ( by killer I don't mean apps that will brick the device!!
) for iPod, iPhone that will make these devices even more attractive to consumers.
This is exactly what pisses me off about this whole situation though.
A bunch of juvenile idiots crack into the iPhone, unlock it, and make a bunch of crappy apps that would be at home on a palm pilot. Whoop-de-do. Big deal. They are smart enough to cover their butts and also enough to avoid getting caught when Apple pulls out the 1.1.1 update.
The problem is though, these jerks aren't just hacking for their own purposes, they are selling the hacks and spreading them far and wide. They are telling people absolute lies like "Apple can't do anything" and "this will work through any firmware update." Because of the immense popularity of the iPhone we are talking about a very large number of people here also. It's not like only five or six geeks are affected here.
The people really getting screwed over here are the average joes and janes that took these hacker idiots at their word and installed this stuff on their iPhones or purchased the unlock from "some dude on eBay."
How typical, that you refer to these folks as "frankly incompetent."
There is a "frankly incompetent" person on another thread that just "played" with an unlock program he found advertised once and it did nothing. But now with the update, their $600 iPhone is a useless piece of junk and they are screwed, while the hackers are laughing all the way to the bank.
A lot of people are being screwed over here, and it's not Apple that's doing it. It's a bunch of irresponsible idiots with the attitude of a twelve year old, lost in some fantasy "war" against an evil empire (Apple) that doesn't even exist.
The only thing we haven't seen yet is for these doorknobs to actually try to sue Apple over the damage that they themselves have caused.
Should happen in ten... nine... eight...
All "juvenile idiots" I know of unlocked their phone themselves or had them unlocked for free by others. Did not sell it to anyone ether. None of us updated to 1.1.1, we are still happily use our unlocked iphones and will see how everything develops, if no solution comes up, we will live with our working iphones + "crappy apps", from which there will be more and more.
And you know what? IF this update has finally killed unlocking effords: Our iphones just got much more valuable. Watch prices on ebay skyrocket in some weeks, as soon as dealers run out of 1.02 iphones stocks.
Upgrade or not to upgrade
Hello Guys:
If anyone can give me an answer, I would be really appreciated.
I use firmware 1.0.2 and I only use customized ring tones, I did upgrade to itunes 7.4.2 but I went back to 7.4.1 to get my ring tones working again. I know that I will willing to upgrade to firmware 1.1.1 and I know I will lost my custom ringtones due to the fact that I might need to upgrade to itunes 7.4.3, It's ok, but what I wanted to know, is that, will my phone get bricked???!!!, I just use customize ringtones, I didnt hack the phone to use it with another carrier. If anyone can have an answer for me, or idea, I would love to know.
Thanks guys, and all of you here are awsome, kudos!!!!
maxrdc
Hello Guys:
If anyone can give me an answer, I would be really appreciated.
I use firmware 1.0.2 and I only use customized ring tones, I did upgrade to itunes 7.4.2 but I went back to 7.4.1 to get my ring tones working again. I know that I will willing to upgrade to firmware 1.1.1 and I know I will lost my custom ringtones due to the fact that I might need to upgrade to itunes 7.4.3, It's ok, but what I wanted to know, is that, will my phone get bricked???!!!, I just use customize ringtones, I didnt hack the phone to use it with another carrier. If anyone can have an answer for me, or idea, I would love to know.
Thanks guys, and all of you here are awsome, kudos!!!!
maxrdc
Is anyone able to restore to 1.0.2 firmware????????
I tried even disconnected from internet but I'm not able??? It could be really cool, 'cause I've lost my cell phone and so much more
Francis
I have the same problem,
when I (on a mac) choose RESTORE while holding the apple/option key i get:
>> are you sure you want to restore...//...newest version of the iPhone software will be installed <<
so, i don't get this option to choose for firmware versions... and I am too chicken to proceed... does this option (to choose a firmware version manually) appear AFTER clicking the <upgrade and restore> button?
I'm using iTunes 7.4.1
thanks, GJ
Exactly, I think people WANT to think that the majority of unlockers updated, but they didnt. So unlocked phones are still working as they did before the update was released. You have to allow Apple to brick your phone.
You and Donkey are both missing the entire point of my post.
Sure, people like you are safe from the "evil" Apple, but I'll repeat the salient point for you:
The people being screwed here are those "incompetent" (i.e. - regular) users who bought the bill of goods you and others like you are promoting.
Donkey even implies now that he will essentially "screw them again" by selling his unlocked iPhone on eBay. Your comment on the other hand is basically just a bit of braggadocio about how your smarter than Apple. If either one of you spent a second to think about anyone but yourselves you might find life a little more pleasant in the long run.
Why not just act a little more mature and be a little more circumspect in regards what you are saying and promoting to other iPhone users? How about *not* screwing anyone over at all?
Apple sure isn't.
That is quite a bold statement you do here, Virgil, without knowing me or my background.
I do not know any unlocked iPhone user which was not aware of the consequences of the unlock, one does not have to be a rocket scientist to understand that.
Thank you for showing us the way out of our misery.
Absolutely true. I know a lot of people who have unlocked their phones themselves, including myself, for free and who have unlocked other phones for free too. I'm happily using my iphone today with AIM and MSM IM, several dictionaries, remote access to streaming music from my computer at home and much more - thank god for third party apps! My phone is fast, stable and has no battery issues at all.
It's also true that our unlocked phone will skyrocket on ebay if there is no new solution in the immediate future - how sweet!
I guess it must be a love/hate relationship if they also
"still have their butts held high and bare towards 1 Infinite Loop"
the ringtone thing is the biggest issue, imo. it was pretty cool having custom ones, and it is such a no-brainer for the device. btw, the update doesn't "brick" your phone if you had custom ringtones installed. it just doesn't let you select them if you go to the sounds setting. in fact, if you do go to even view the list of ringtone options it defaults you back to "Marimba".
the apple-ologists on here are funny. these are some seriously customer-hostile policies Cupertino has chosen to embrace. the iLounge editorial is spot-on.
there is a difference between making honest money and forcing your customers to pay you twice for services they do not need. yes, it is the record companies who are behind this, but that doesn't excuse Apple for purposely locking out owners of the phone from playing THEIR OWN audio that ALREADY RESIDES on the phone. This action directly reflects a serious shift in policy at our beloved computer company. People can try to justify it, but the actions are inexcusable.
Many have mentioned the two items left off of the iPhone's feature list that show Apple customers where the company's priorities lie:
1. custom ringtones
2. iChat mobile
The only reasons for these applications' exclusion is that Apple is supporting their partners' business models that rely on double-billing customers for services they already paid for. We pay for unlimited data, therefore we should be able to IM, not SMS. Likewise, we have purchased/made music we like. There is no reason we should have to purchase a 30-second clip of that music AGAIN in order to have it play when we receive a call.
Yes, customers can vote with their wallets and not buy the iPhone if they don't want to put up with these policies. But for the million people who are already locked into a 2-year contract with AT&T, that is not a viable option. Therefore, customers are well within their right to voice their opposition to the blatantly hostile anti-customer turn that the company has taken.
Just my $.02 of course
the apple-ologists on here are funny. these are some seriously customer-hostile policies Cupertino has chosen to embrace. the iLounge editorial is spot-on.
there is a difference between making honest money and forcing your customers to pay you twice for services they do not need. yes, it is the record companies who are behind this, but that doesn't excuse Apple for purposely locking out owners of the phone from playing THEIR OWN audio that ALREADY RESIDES on the phone. This action directly reflects a serious shift in policy at our beloved computer company. People can try to justify it, but the actions are inexcusable.
Many have mentioned the two items left off of the iPhone's feature list that show Apple customers where the company's priorities lie:
1. custom ringtones
2. iChat mobile
The only reasons for these applications' exclusion is that Apple is supporting their partners' business models that rely on double-billing customers for services they already paid for. We pay for unlimited data, therefore we should be able to IM, not SMS. Likewise, we have purchased/made music we like. There is no reason we should have to purchase a 30-second clip of that music AGAIN in order to have it play when we receive a call.
Yes, customers can vote with their wallets and not buy the iPhone if they don't want to put up with these policies. But for the million people who are already locked into a 2-year contract with AT&T, that is not a viable option. Therefore, customers are well within their right to voice their opposition to the blatantly hostile anti-customer turn that the company has taken.
Just my $.02 of course