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iPhone 12 iPhone 12 is flicker free(DC dimming)!
- Thread starter changguangyu
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Thanks for that added info! So if at all possible it seems we want the LG panels- I guess if they are indeed the more "cream of the crop", it would make sense those are being installed in the pros vs. the regular 12 (and maybe the mini, too).I've posted in a few places including this thread that no, they're really not the same panel. For the 6.1" panels, LG is supply 20 Million units. I believe they are the Pro models as there is a distinct difference in brightness between the Standard iPhone and the Pro model.
LG Display to Supply 20 Million OLED Panels for 6.1-inch 'iPhone 12'
Apple is expected to launch an all-OLED iPhone lineup this year, and while Samsung is understood to be providing the majority of the OLED panels, LG...www.macrumors.com
I personally think think this is central to the consideration of which are tolerable and which are problematic as LG and Samsung have very different backgrounds with the tech. Samsung is always, always, on the lowest end of the spectrum they can justify and LG has employed PWM free OLED panels in both TV and phone segments of their business.
I suppose my experience with the regular 12 in the store was not enough time to really judge how bad the PWM might really be- but again I must say that it seemed like it did not bother my eyes. I really wish I could have gotten my hands on a pro for a few minutes to see how that looked. Maybe I will swing by a carrier store to take a look this week.
I’m not defending Samsung. But this still does not explain why so many people who had no issues with Samsung OLED phones suddenly could not use iPhones with Samsung produced panels. The original iPhone X thread is littered with people who used Samsung phones with no issues at all but then tried the X and had instant problems.
Thanks for the samples. It does look like regular iPhone 12 would have more visible flicker doesnt it?
I’m waiting for notebookcheck, but I’m fully expecting to have to wait on the SE Plus. I’m not willing to try to “get used to” headaches from a phone anymore. I rarely even come to this forum anymore, since pwm has sucked the fun out of this “hobby” for me. Only so much I can say about my 3 year old 8+, and I can’t use any of the new phones. Even the 11 lcd bothered my head for some reason.
I think you'll find that a great many people have had issues with Samsung panels, and that your perspective is based less on objective data, and more on subjective impression. I'd say that Samsung is perhaps the greatest driver of pwm related issues in this segment of the market.
You are free to disagree, but I think you would be surprised to learn how prolific Samsung panels actually are. Regardless, and sincerely, if the issue is pwm - then it is simply the frequency of the refresh and the amplitude of the waveform that matter. If the issue is blue light or brightness of the panel - that is a different issue entirely.
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Samsung are the best screen makers in the world. The vast majority of people don’t experience any pwm issues, and pwm displays are cheaper and easier than a “real” solution. Samsung really has zero reason to change what they’re doing, because it’s not costing them money. They make screens for themselves, apple, OnePlus, I believe Motorola and I’m sure even more than that. It’s unfortunate for those of us who are affected, but it’s not going to change. OnePlus offering dc dimming is a niche feature, and I don’t see any of the big companies adopting it. I also seem to recall LG has had multiple issues with their quality control. I seem to recall the Lg screen pixel was trash, and LG own phones used to suffer severe burn-in. Samsung has no reason to fix the pwm issue because they’re by far the #1 screen maker in the business.
I'm rewriting this...
Samsung is perhaps the most prolific producer of displays in the world. They are cold, they frequently misrepresent their products, and they don't give a good god damn who has a problem with it. They are a massive corporation that could be phenomenal if they simply decided to give a ****; they don't. They care about the aggregate numbers and currently pwm ain't where it's at; five years ago no one had heard of it in the context of vision - yet here we are - a rapidly exploding segment of the consumer base.
I'm not relitigating the pwm discussion here, but of those sensitive to it, in the mobile tech market - there is a better than average chance that a Samsung panel was involved in the experience. I do not care who or how many are unaffected by pwm. It is not mystical. It is not a matter of faith. It is function of frequency and waveform amplitude or it is not a pwm related issue - period.
So, all I have tried to do is offer relevant, verifiable information, in meaningful ways to the discussion. Remove LG from the equation and we're left with 'some demo models have it' and 'some retail models don't'. Have the 'dc dimming model' versus the 'dc dimming plus pwm model' *********... There are no verifiable examples of any of the tech referenced - it's all made up. PWM is electrical, thus it is scientific, thus the issue is plainly identifiable or it is not the issue.
But seriously, anyone may believe anything they please - I just wish the discussion of an OLED display didn't involve divination, runes, or hypothetical consumer technology subcategories.
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I think that’s more than fair. I am far from any expert. I just go by the small sample size who have commented here in the forums. Maybe LG will be the saving grace.
There’s confirmation both flicker. Whether the 12 vs 12 pro flicker iat different rates/frequencies is another story and we likely won’t know until notebookcheck releases the Hz.
And rumor is the mini and 12 pro Max will have Samsung displays vs LG displays in the 12 and 12 pro- not sure if there will be any difference there with pwm?
I think the lg should not flicker they not jse pwm but someone in this forum said thier iphone 12 flickers so maybe wrong
Yeah, there is definitely flicker on the 12 and 12 Pro per what people have found so far. I did my own test on a 12 at a store last weekend, recording in slow-mo at different brightness levels- there was very noticeable flicker all the way up to 100%. In the few minutes I messed with it, it did not seem to bother my eyes as is the case with the oled screen on my wife's XS Max.... but hard to say if that means much there in a bright store vs using it at home in lower light for longer periods of time.
12 Pro flickers like mad. It doesn't cause headaches for me but I don't like how it looks. I went back to my old 7 Plus and the screen is so stable and comfortable to watch in comparison. My OLED tv don't flicker so can these phone OLED's be improved to remove this flicker?
Ok...I just got the 12 and I really do notice a screen flickering especially when switching between apps that lasts about 2-3 seconds. Not slow mo....im just just talking my eyes can see actual flickering....seems to happen when switching between the photos app and other apps. But if I switch between lets say, settings and safari, theres not flicker.
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I am kind of surprised that we are nearly a week out from these getting out into the wild- and even longer than that since reviewers got theirs- and we have not seen anything measuring the PWM frequency.
Most reviewers have no interest in committing a small personal investment toward a photosensor and an oscilloscope. A quality setup might cost a few hundred dollars and like the common Youtuber saying goes, 'if it ain't free, it ain't for me'...
But yes, it would have been nice to see some corporate body like notebookcheck pull something out - but apparently not.
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In another thread, someone mentioned they emailed Notebookcheck to see when they were going to take a look at the iPhone 12. The response was that results will get posted next week!
Got the iPhone Pro 6.1" yesterday...
This panel is effortless to view however I did play with white point after I set the panel to 100% brightness; I can't say for sure that the issue was flicker or if I just don't prefer the intensity of nuclear white... Either way, adjusting that down slightly took that edge off completely. Below 100% I had no issues whatsoever - and without any display adjustment. I've been quite pleased with how comfortable it is to view in my normal day to day environment.
TL: DR: The flicker is DEFINITELY outside my perception range, or the amplitude is so narrow that aside from a mild degree of discomfort at 100% - I wouldn't know it was a pwm controlled panel.
FYI: YMMV.
This panel is effortless to view however I did play with white point after I set the panel to 100% brightness; I can't say for sure that the issue was flicker or if I just don't prefer the intensity of nuclear white... Either way, adjusting that down slightly took that edge off completely. Below 100% I had no issues whatsoever - and without any display adjustment. I've been quite pleased with how comfortable it is to view in my normal day to day environment.
TL: DR: The flicker is DEFINITELY outside my perception range, or the amplitude is so narrow that aside from a mild degree of discomfort at 100% - I wouldn't know it was a pwm controlled panel.
FYI: YMMV.
Congrats 😁
Just out of curiousity: what brightness % and white point % are you going to stick with? I’ve been trying 50% brightness with 80% white point, I’d like to try whatever you have yours set at as well.
We bought the 12 Pro for my wife today and are already needing to return it as we never knew about this issue before and we had to compare screens of various devices we have in the house until we realized the displays changed in such a significant way. She started getting a headache and more after only a short bit and again after a break.
Instead we are just repairing her 8+ screen.
Instead we are just repairing her 8+ screen.
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Any updates on this?
I had to return regular 12 since it raped my eyes.
Im not confident that mini 12 will be different on this topic, but maybe we are lucky to get different OLED screens with no flicker?