iPhone 13 iPhone 13 Pro: Cinematic Mode being "pro-grade" - bad joke

[Worlrl]

Oh, really? I could name half a dozen scenarios where your “cheapest DSLR lens” couldn’t compete.

Every tool has limitations.

Funny thing. Photographers can offended if someone looks at their work and says, “That’s a nice picture. You must have a great camera.” It isn’t the camera that matters, it’s the talent behind. Until someone else shows up with the “wrong” kind of camera.

Sure it's the talent.
The iphone is a great tool but still I don't believe it can beat a normal Lens.
I mean, maybe the iphone will make a greater depth of field effect than a kit lens Nikon. But this kit lens will never have focus artifacts like OP showed, also the focus pulling can be at whatever speed you want ,
when with the iphone it's looks like a default speed + the end of the pulling is very rough and feels automatic.

By the way, calling everything that has greater depth of field "cinematic" is also cringe.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

If that were true, astronomers would never use computers.

A computer would be useless without the optics though. We’ve been getting some amazing images from space long before the personal computer came along. It’s just a nice tool to accompany some very good optical technology.

Phones produce some very good instant photo’s and we all enjoy this result. The images lose quality pretty quickly once you start zooming in though. I have a Nikon D300 from 2008 that I can confidently say produces a better quality photograph than my iPhone 12. The phone is good though because you can instantly edit and upload to the web where this aspect isn’t as important.

 

[NewBench]

Think you're over-analysing OP. To the naked eye watching at normal speed it looked absolutely fine. Of course if you're going to pick it apart frame-by-frame there are going to be issues but that would be the case with almost any camera set-up, even pro set-ups.

 

[Menneisyys2]

Of course if you're going to pick it apart frame-by-frame there are going to be issues but that would be the case with almost any camera set-up, even pro set-ups.

Let me disagree: there are some kinds of visual errors that simply won't happen with a "Hollywood rig". The latter do everything in hardware and strictly during shooting and not afterwards. This is why, assuming you use

1, a large-sensor camera coupled with a
2, bright lens

(these two factors can result in very shallow field-of-depth if / when wanted),

you simply won't (can't) have any visual issue software-only blurring / focusing simulation (or, with plain portrait photos, bokeh'ing) has. That is, you won't see things to be completely in focus when they shouldn't at all (as they should be in an out-of-focus distance). It just can't happen because of plain laws of physics / optics.

This is why Cook's stating at 3:54 in the iJustine "interview" (

) "it [Cinematic Mode] is like having a Hollywood rig in your pocket" is just not true but definitely false advertising. Even their own video footage shows these artefacts; that is, Apple didn't even bother trying to hide those areas in their own demo video.

 

[Menneisyys2]

I have a Nikon D300 from 2008 that I can confidently say produces a better quality photograph than my iPhone 12. The phone is good though because you can instantly edit and upload to the web where this aspect isn’t as important.

Yup, same here. I have a now completely outdated Fuji X-E1 but even that camera, with the super cheap & compact 27mm lens produces orders of magnitude better images than my iPhone 11. (Assuming no software "trickery" like iPhone's Night mode needs to be done. Night mode is BTW indeed excellent and can, in cases, produce better photos than even a DSLR - for example, when the latter need to operate handheld or capture motion etc.)

 

[LonestarOne]

I have a Nikon D300 from 2008 that I can confidently say produces a better quality photograph than my iPhone 12.

it’s a poor workman who blames his tools?

What does that say about the workman who spends his time criticizing someone else’s tools?

I wonder how much time Ansel Adams spent badmouthing anyone who didn’t use a large-format camera?

The head of one local camera club told members they need to go on a “shopping spree” to buy “professional cameras”. He takes great pride in the pinhole cameras he builds but hates cellphone cameras — which can produce identical results.

 

[LonestarOne]

Let me disagree: there are some kinds of visual errors that simply won't happen with a "Hollywood rig". The latter do everything in hardware and strictly during shooting and not afterwards.

If you think your Hollywood rigs have no limitations, you’re living in a dream world. Every tool has limitations.

 

[LonestarOne]

Think you're over-analysing OP. To the naked eye watching at normal speed it looked absolutely fine. Of course if you're going to pick it apart frame-by-frame there are going to be issues but that would be the case with almost any camera set-up, even pro set-ups.

Yep. Even Star Wars. The matte lines in the original were easily visible when transferred to video. That’s why they had to redo all the special effects.

 

[NewBench]

Let me disagree: there are some kinds of visual errors that simply won't happen with a "Hollywood rig". The latter do everything in hardware and strictly during shooting and not afterwards...

Again, at normal speed to the naked eye, the rack effect in Apple's promo looked fine - great even, and the end product is all that matters. If you'e working with individual frames and need that level of attention to detail (e.g. for a still), then you aren't going to be using cinematic mode.

 

[LonestarOne]

The iphone is a great tool but still I don't believe it can beat a normal Lens.

A normal lens is limited to 50mm focal length. The iPhone beats that on both the short and high end (for the 13 pro, anyway). How many movies are shot with nothing but a normal lens?

 

[Menneisyys2]

If you think your Hollywood rigs have no limitations, you’re living in a dream world. Every tool has limitations.

Of course I know. I do shoot a lot myself. What I stated was the following: Hollywood rigs do NOT have THESE KINDS of limitations (unnatural focussing issues), because they don't need to do any bokeh / out-of-focus emulation by software. Their hardware (bright lens + large sensor combo, along with dedicated focus racking support) let for very shallow DoF and real, artifact-less focus racking.

That is, what Cook stated (this Cinema mode is equivalent to the focus traverse obtainable from Hollywood rig) in his iJustice "interview" is a blatant lie.

EDIT: change: attainable -> obtainable

 

[Menneisyys2]

A normal lens is limited to 50mm focal length. The iPhone beats that on both the short and high end (for the 13 pro, anyway). How many movies are shot with nothing but a normal lens?

He surely didn't mean the focal length but ubiquity / price And, despite the word ("normal") indeed being not the right one in this context, he surely was right.

 

[teknikal90]

In that case you don't understand what bokeh is. Because calling the way Apple does it plain fake is just not true.

Is portrait mode fake bokeh?

 

[Menneisyys2]

Is portrait mode fake bokeh?

Not as "fake" as in one-sensor systems (like that of the Pixel phones). After all, it does use real 3D depth info from the other camera(s). (Or, at least, it used to use.)

However, the end result is still unnatural with "complicated" subjects like hair - exactly the same issue as with the video "defocusing" issues above. That's what I call "fake" bokeh. The current software-only post processing just can't match real bokeh / defocusing made during shooting with real hardware and ONLY using hardware and no software sorcery.

 

[Menneisyys2]

BTW, guys, a somewhat related subject: a separate thread on why Cinema Mode is stuck with FHD and why it MIGHT stay at FHD in the future too:

No 4k Cinema mode in future iPhones either? Explanation here...

Folks, I’ve thought over this “why 1080p30 only in Cinema Mode” question. I don’t think it’s a storage throughput / CPU speed etc. issue at all. They’re plenty fast. Apple could easily provide the same with 4k30 with the current, built-in storage and CPU. The reason may be the following: the...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

it’s a poor workman who blames his tools?

What does that say about the workman who spends his time criticizing someone else’s tools?

I wonder how much time Ansel Adams spent badmouthing anyone who didn’t use a large-format camera?

The head of one local camera club told members they need to go on a “shopping spree” to buy “professional cameras”. He takes great pride in the pinhole cameras he builds but hates cellphone cameras — which can produce identical results.

It’s not about blaming tools but realising that some tools produce better results than others. I’m fairly sure the example I gave highlighted that cameras can be much cheaper than mobile phones but I don’t think you read it properly in any case.

 

[cap7ainclu7ch]

As a photography/videographer you guys are too picky. This is a really cool feature and something that takes an incredible amount of compute power to pull off in real time. Dynamic range and DOF impact an image just as much as pure resolution. This is just the start and just as computational photography has taken off, it will do the same with video.

We've only been getting to the point where full frame mirrorless cameras have good enough autofocus to pull off something like this the past few years. Drop your expectations and stop getting so worked up about "pro" marketing. Nobody is breaking the laws of physics here. Your old cameras still have sensors that are in orders of mangtude larger that that in an iPhone. Also any new phone will produce better looking 4k footage than any older DSLR if its getting any decent light.

The overall footage looks really good, and I for one will be having fun and producing some bokeh filled videos of my cat shortly. Also pretty excited to test out some Prores footage.

 

[Kylo83]

No pro will shoot in 1080p I use my canon 5d mark iv and would never shoot in 1080

 

[Kierkegaarden]

As others have pointed out, the tools are secondary to the talent and technique.

There is story that George Lucas told about be in film school and being limited in the amount of film he could take in an animation class. While his fellow students complained at the limitations, George made the most of the situation and turned the 1 minute reel into a film, and that film won awards. He continued to push every situation to tell his stories, no matter what limits were imposed on him.

The tools available to us, especially in this new iPhone are so much more advanced than what the great filmmakers had when they started. Instead of complaining about the limits, make the most of them and create something.

 

[LonestarOne]

No pro will shoot in 1080p I use my canon 5d mark iv and would never shoot in 1080

Please provide a link to your work so we can examine It frame by frame and pixel peak. Fair is fair.

 

[LonestarOne]

Please provide a link to your work so we can examine it frame by frame and pixel peak. Fair is fair.

 

[dz5b609]

.

 

[munakib]

Its such a cool feature, I was so disappointed afterwords to find out that it wasnt 4k. Also reading between the tea leaves when MKBHD pointed out that he wasnt totally impressed with it (Im sure he had a review unit on him and he noticed the lack of refinement) based on what he saw at the event, I have lowered my expectations too. But can't promise I wont use it though .

 

[douglasf13]

A normal lens is limited to 50mm focal length. The iPhone beats that on both the short and high end (for the 13 pro, anyway). How many movies are shot with nothing but a normal lens?

• The Wrestler (12mm/Super16)
• Valhalla Rising (16mm)
• Birdman (18mm)
• Touch of Evil (18mm)
• Cosmopolis (21mm)
• Bottle Rocket (27mm)
• The Last Picture Show (28mm)
• The Witch (32mm)
• Toni Erdmann (32mm)
• Call me by your name (35mm)
• Chinatown (40mm)
• Royal Tennenbaums (40mm)
• Rushmore (40mm)
• Son of Saul (40mm)
• The Godfather (40mm)
• Monsters (50mm)
• Psycho (50mm)
• The Robe (50mm)
• Tokyo Story (50mm)

 

[douglasf13]

As others have pointed out, the tools are secondary to the talent and technique.

There is story that George Lucas told about be in film school and being limited in the amount of film he could take in an animation class. While his fellow students complained at the limitations, George made the most of the situation and turned the 1 minute reel into a film, and that film won awards. He continued to push every situation to tell his stories, no matter what limits were imposed on him.

The tools available to us, especially in this new iPhone are so much more advanced than what the great filmmakers had when they started. Instead of complaining about the limits, make the most of them and create something.

👍“The enemy of art is the absence of limitations.” -Orson Welles