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changguangyu

macrumors member
Original poster
Sep 15, 2017
41
30


1. iPhone 13 Pro is using 480hz PWM dimming at all brightness.
2. In iPhone 12 series, we can set a high brighness using DC dimming, and then use Reduce White Point to stimulate brightness adjust to avoid PWM flicker. But with 13 pro, there's no DC dimming at all.

I think eye strain on iPhone 13 pro will be much serious than iPhone 12/11 pro.
 

GrumpyMom

macrumors G4
Sep 11, 2014
10,886
16,740
I honestly can never tell how it’s going to affect me until the phone is in my hand and I’ve used it for at least a couple of days. I will return it and keep what I’ve got if it’s that much of a problem. I think it’s premature to freak out based on videos. And FWIW that white point solution never helped me at all.
 

Wise_rice

macrumors newbie
Sep 23, 2021
8
5
Ah, damn.
thanks for sharing. I‘ll wait for iPhone 14 then…

can you please post the video link ?
 

GrumpyMom

macrumors G4
Sep 11, 2014
10,886
16,740
Ah, damn.
thanks for sharing. I‘ll wait for iPhone 14 then…

can you please post the video link ?
There’s nothing wrong with waiting but there’s no saying iPhone 14 won’t be worse. I had no difficulties with 11 Pro but had some with 12, 12 Pro, 12 mini. 12 Pro Max was okay. I did finally adjust somehow to the mini display which is the worst for pwm.

I’d advise, if possible, looking at one in person. Depending on your location you can also order and then return if it doesn’t work out for you. Which is what I’ve had to do a few times. Everyone’s reactions to pwm from different displays are different and so it’s worth investigating each device for yourself.
 

greenbreadmmm

macrumors 6502
Jun 4, 2007
416
543
The higher refresh rate 480hz for pwm is going to make things better. Apparently less visible to the human eye. The iPhone 12 series does not use dc dimming and has one of the worst pwm displays.
I thought 480 would be "good enough" had to return a TV with that same frequency.

My sisters 700ish level tv, is "ok" tho.
 

jrajpaul

macrumors member
Dec 26, 2007
39
46
Yes I agree. I used an iPhone X for 3 years with no issues. When I purchased the iPhone 12, it was unbearable for me. Dizziness within minutes. I’ve tried all of them. Zollotech has an unboxing of the 13 pro which shows no flicker at 240fps slomo. The higher the pwm frequency the less chance for it to cause headaches. Try it out in person before making your decision.
 

Taz Mangus

macrumors 604
Mar 10, 2011
7,815
3,496
Yes I agree. I used an iPhone X for 3 years with no issues. When I purchased the iPhone 12, it was unbearable for me. Dizziness within minutes. I’ve tried all of them. Zollotech has an unboxing of the 13 pro which shows no flicker at 240fps slomo. The higher the pwm frequency the less chance for it to cause headaches. Try it out in person before making your decision.
In that review you can also see that the iPhone 13 has a cooler looking screen vs the iPhone 12 even with True Tone turned on.
 

iObama

macrumors 6502a
Nov 16, 2008
915
1,673
In that review you can also see that the iPhone 13 has a cooler looking screen vs the iPhone 12 even with True Tone turned on.
I hope that makes True Tone usable again! I loved it on my LCD iPhones, but on OLED it's looked like I turned a sepia filter on.
 
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jm31828

macrumors 6502a
Sep 28, 2015
732
447
Bothell, Washington
View attachment 1841672

1. iPhone 13 Pro is using 480hz PWM dimming at all brightness.
2. In iPhone 12 series, we can set a high brighness using DC dimming, and then use Reduce White Point to stimulate brightness adjust to avoid PWM flicker. But with 13 pro, there's no DC dimming at all.

I think eye strain on iPhone 13 pro will be much serious than iPhone 12/11 pro.
Any idea if this is going to be an issue on the 13 and 13 Mini as well- or does this seem reserved just for the Pro?
 

jm31828

macrumors 6502a
Sep 28, 2015
732
447
Bothell, Washington
I honestly can never tell how it’s going to affect me until the phone is in my hand and I’ve used it for at least a couple of days. I will return it and keep what I’ve got if it’s that much of a problem. I think it’s premature to freak out based on videos. And FWIW that white point solution never helped me at all.
I know I am somewhat sensitive, but maybe not as bad as others.


When looking at my wife's XS Max it makes my eyes hurt almost instantly.
Last year, though, I upgraded from an 11 to a 12 Mini as I REALLY wanted the small size. I think I psyched myself out into thinking I was having PWM sensitivity with it, so I did have some eye discomfort at the beginning (though to be fair, I did, too, after going back to my 11 for a few days).

Anyway, I turned brightness up to about 90% or 95%, and set reduce white point to a pretty high level, and it still flickers like mad when doing slow mo video of it, but it's much more pleasing to my eyes- and for the last year I have not had any issues with it, even when using it for 45 minutes at a time browsing this forum, Reddit, Facebook, etc.

I am upgrading to the 13 mini and hoping it's essentially the same screen, acting the same way flicker-wise as the 12 mini, so that my eyes won't even know the difference.
 
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Wise_rice

macrumors newbie
Sep 23, 2021
8
5
Here is another Slo-Mo shot of the 13 pro vs. the 12 pro.
You can see flicker on the 13 pro. But it is less / faster than on the 12.

iPhonedo Video

Maybe the higher refresh rate pwm on the pro helps some people, but it is not ideal. So I'll have to skip this.

The iPhone X was causing a lot of eye strain for me. Some people here say it was easier on the eyes than the 12 series, even though Notebookcheck claims the 12 has a "softer" PWM setting. So maybe it can be said, that all OLED iPhones are having similar problems.
 

Wise_rice

macrumors newbie
Sep 23, 2021
8
5
The A15 has a new display driver built in to it, so it might be the case that it could be much improved on the iPhone 13/Mini. We shall find out soon enough.
Yes, I was hoping that, too.
But we can already see it flicker here in the iPhonedo Video, so I wouldn't get my hopes up too much.
 

upandown

macrumors 65816
Apr 10, 2017
1,086
1,031
I don’t see the video demonstrating at all brightnesses. I see one brightness setting for 3 seconds.
 
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Wise_rice

macrumors newbie
Sep 23, 2021
8
5
Sometimes the videos make things out to be much worse than they are in person.
that is, because in person you can not see the flicker, of course. But you will feel it after a while if your eyes are sensitive. E.g. if you had laser surgery (which is increasingly popular to get rid of glasses)
 
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travis64

macrumors 6502a
Nov 18, 2008
961
722
NEW YORK
View attachment 1841672

1. iPhone 13 Pro is using 480hz PWM dimming at all brightness.
2. In iPhone 12 series, we can set a high brighness using DC dimming, and then use Reduce White Point to stimulate brightness adjust to avoid PWM flicker. But with 13 pro, there's no DC dimming at all.

I think eye strain on iPhone 13 pro will be much serious than iPhone 12/11 pro.
Why are you click baiting?????bs
 
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Six0Four

macrumors 6502a
Mar 27, 2020
844
780
480 is higher than the iPhone 12. This is a good thing.

Screen Shot 2021-09-23 at 9.43.15 PM.png
 

RyanG

macrumors 6502a
Sep 18, 2007
502
40
that is, because in person you can not see the flicker, of course. But you will feel it after a while if your eyes are sensitive. E.g. if you had laser surgery (which is increasingly popular to get rid of glasses)
Eye strain can happen for many reasons when it comes lit screens but PWM sensitivity is not related to LASIC. Please provide scientific sources for the studies you are referring to which have control variables that are directly related to PWM.
 
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