If i read this i become curious to try the 12pro max. i had the 12 and 12 pro which didn't work for me, also the full 13 linup isn't working. What would you guys think that the 12 pro max is worth a try?
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iPhone 13 Pro iPhone 13 Pro: Screen PWM flicker at ALL brightness
- Thread starter changguangyu
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Everything is worth a try but due to PWM sensitivity I'm doubtful it will be comfortable to use.
I had nearly the same amount of issues with iPhone 12 Pro Max as iPhone X, and I’ve definitely tested every brightness level and setting.
iPhone 13 Pro Max should have a roughly 240Hz refresh rate according to Notebookcheck, which is probably accurate. The rest of the lineup is ~ 480Hz, maybe slightly higher, and amplitudes seem to be better on iPhone 13/iPhone 13 Mini.
My best luck so far has been with iPhone 13 Mini and even that isn’t perfect. I’m on the verge of being able to keep it enough so that I purchased it again, although I do have to admit I’m slightly disappointed since the display quality isn’t exactly the same. My previous iPhone 13 Mini had eye-wateringly beautiful colors and contrast which is one of the reasons that I held on to it for so long, and I felt that way about the display until the moment I returned it due to headaches. The display on this phone is subjectively not quite as punchy. As far as display quality it’s a relatively negligible difference that the average user wouldn’t notice, although panel variance disappointingly does exist.
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Guys I have an issue with my 13 pro max. Every time I switch the screen from photos to settings or vice versa, I notice 2-3 seconds of pwm issue on my screen. Then it goes back to normal. Is anyone has the same issue ?
Aren't the OLED screens of the XS (my current phone) and the 13 PRO the same?
Is it possible that the 13 gives me a migraine, but the XS does not? I am confused.
Is it possible that the 13 gives me a migraine, but the XS does not? I am confused.
No. They are three generations apart. Software has changed, chips and controllers have changed.
The display on the XS is Super Retina OLED, the iPhone 13 Pro is Super Retina XDR OLED - These are just Apples naming conventions, Samsung and LG make the displays to Apples specs. These have changed each generation ie, Apples specs and the materials used to manafactuer.
Then there's different acceptable tolerances at factory - some displays are warmer and move towards red, some move toward yellow, some are colder and move towards green and blue. 😵💫
There's alot of factors, it isn't as easy to say "they all have OLED so are the same".
I used S10 for almost two years before switching to an iPhone 14 Pro Max, which has more PWM frequency than the S10, at least according to papers (S10 has 240HZ whereas iPhone 14 Pro Max has 250HZ <39% brightness). Shortly after switching to the 14 Pro Max, I started experiencing discomfort and within a week or so, severe headaches and pain in the eyes while moving the eyes upwards and downwards. I did some research and discovered few things and started tweaking my iPhone and eventually nothing worked.
After losing $200 on the sale of the 14 Pro Max, I converted to S22 Ultra, which operates at a much lower frequency than the 14 Pro Max (usually 120 Hz), and I never experienced any real discomfort. I did some research and discovered an article that explains the distinction between OLED and AMOLED, but I don't think I'm sensitive to PWM; instead, I think I'm sensitive to the OLEDs that iPhone was utilising in its smartphones.
When compared to AMOLED, OLED is less expensive, and it lacks the additional TT layer that makes the colours look more brilliant (which is helpful for clarity but extremely harmful to certain people's eyes). Your eyes will eventually grow tired and all the nerves that are connected to your eyes, including the ones in your ears, neck, shoulders, and the area around your eyes, will become uncomfortable and may even experience mild to severe pain. Displays with this colour calibration will constantly ask your eyes to focus more and force them to re-work and refocus almost constantly. Long-term use may give you migraines that last a lifetime. The hardware, not the software, is the issue.
After losing $200 on the sale of the 14 Pro Max, I converted to S22 Ultra, which operates at a much lower frequency than the 14 Pro Max (usually 120 Hz), and I never experienced any real discomfort. I did some research and discovered an article that explains the distinction between OLED and AMOLED, but I don't think I'm sensitive to PWM; instead, I think I'm sensitive to the OLEDs that iPhone was utilising in its smartphones.
When compared to AMOLED, OLED is less expensive, and it lacks the additional TT layer that makes the colours look more brilliant (which is helpful for clarity but extremely harmful to certain people's eyes). Your eyes will eventually grow tired and all the nerves that are connected to your eyes, including the ones in your ears, neck, shoulders, and the area around your eyes, will become uncomfortable and may even experience mild to severe pain. Displays with this colour calibration will constantly ask your eyes to focus more and force them to re-work and refocus almost constantly. Long-term use may give you migraines that last a lifetime. The hardware, not the software, is the issue.
Interesting take on the situation!
I assume it is just a small percentage of sensitive individuals who would seemingly be at risk according to this particular scenario?
Thank you for sharing this. I’m also having problems with the temporal dithering doing the same to my eyes on Apple LCD.
I see notebookcheck has started posting test results for temporal dithering on YouTube. They determined there is none on the the latest lcd iPads, or the MacBook Air m1- but I wish they would test lcd iPhones such as the 11 and SE so we can find out!
And I assume oled phones do not have dithering?
Their test of iPhone 14 pro found no dithering, but I don’t see results for any other models.
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That's great news about the M1 Air. I had decided to buy that one refurbished. Still, there is something about the display that makes it challenging for me to focus properly. I can play Sims on it but I have decided I'm not going to try and do emails on it.
I'm giving my Samsung S22Ultra a chance in the spotlight. I was doing Christmas shopping on my iPhone 14 Pro Max since most wishlists I got were online. It's given me some problems and I have gotten super clumsy the last few days.
Unfortunately the fingerprint reader sucks. So it's hard to conduct business on this phone. I can't authenticate my ID. Also, I've set up Apple Pay for so much of my shopping. It's less convenient but I guess it's the best of my options right now.
Sorry to hear that. 
Though the m1 MacBook Air has no temporal dithering, it does have pwm at brightness levels Could that be what’s bothering you?
Though the m1 MacBook Air has no temporal dithering, it does have pwm at brightness levels Could that be what’s bothering you?
At what brightness levels does the m1 MBA have PWM?Sorry to hear that.
Though the m1 MacBook Air has no temporal dithering, it does have pwm at brightness levels Could that be what’s bothering you?
Notebookcheck says it’s 50% and below… it’s a very high pwm frequency , but it’s there. Above 50% they say it’s flicker-free.
Good to know, especially since I don’t think I ever get my MBA above 50% brightness and still do well with the screen. Savor those moments.
I'm VERY sensitive to PWM and have no issues at all with my M1 MBA which I use a lot (typically on 100% brightness).Good to know, especially since I don’t think I ever get my MBA above 50% brightness and still do well with the screen. Savor those moments.