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The term is discretionary spending.

People have started to reduce discretionary spending and you’re in that camp. That includes McDonald’s and Apple spending for many.

I don't think iPhones will be a big year, regardless of the economy. Phones, for most, have pretty much peaked. Outside of enthusiasts, most only buy one when they need to or their contract is up, and don't really care about new and shiny anymore.

I couldn't be less excited about phones, across the board, anymore. As I said previously, buying a phone now is about as exciting as buying new tires.
 
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Phones, for most, have pretty much peaked. Outside of enthusiasts, most only buy one when they need to or their contract is up, and don't really care about new and shiny anymore.

I couldn't be less excited about phones, across the board, anymore. As I said previously, buying a phone now is about as exciting as buying new tires.
Absolutely.

The new features enhance very niche areas of the buyer pool.

Apple is hoping AI will offer that broad appeal that makes most buyers see a value in upgrading. I am not yet convinced that will pan out. If it does, they still have a lot of work to get things to that point. They let Siri languish so long users are more apprehensive of Apple in this area than they otherwise would be.
 
Saving the big increase for next year’s higher priced iPhone 17 “Air” or whatever it’s called. Now the only question is do we get 256GB for that iPhone 16 Pro at $999 or not.
 
European prices = US price * currency rate * VAT + national taxes if applicable + a little extra

It's always been like this.
Oh i know how it works, Apple just adds a lot of extra margin over other tech companies from my experience.
 
Sure bud. You have over 5k posts here and are on this site...an Apple site...daily. Come on now

Of course I've purchased Apple for years.
But I don't blindly accept every thing they release (cough VisionPro).

You know you can disagree and criticize Apple, right?
It's okay, they won't take away your fanboy membership card.
 
In the EU it's mostly about currency rates against USD.

European prices = US price * currency rate * VAT + national taxes if applicable + a little extra
No, it's not.


iPhone 16 Pro Max 512 GBPrice
Netherlands1910 USD incl. vat
USA1399 USD + VAT = 1500 USD

That "a little extra" has ZERO justification from exchange rates.

That little extra is actually an Apple Watch
 
In the EU it's mostly about currency rates against USD.

European prices = US price * currency rate * VAT + national taxes if applicable + a little extra
No, it's not.


iPhone 16 Pro Max 512 GBPrice
Netherlands1910 USD incl. vat
USA1399 USD + VAT = 1500 USD

That "a little extra" is an Apple Watch with ZERO justification from exchange rates.
 
iPhone 16 Pro Max 512 GBPrice
Netherlands1910 USD incl. vat
USA1399 USD + VAT = 1500 USD

That "a little extra" is an Apple Watch with ZERO justification from exchange rates.

iPhone 16 Pro Max with 256GB
Netherlands pre-VAT price is €1,217 or around $1,341 USD.
U.S. pre-sales tax price is $1,199.

iPhone 16 Pro Max with 512GB
Netherlands pre-VAT price is €1,423 or around $1,568 USD.
U.S. pre-sales tax price is $1,399.

iPhone 16 Pro Max with 1TB
Netherlands pre-VAT price is €1,630 or around $1,796 USD.
U.S. pre-sales tax price is $1,599.

iPhones in the Netherlands have a longer/better warranty than those in the U.S.
 
iPhone 16 Pro Max with 256GB
Netherlands pre-VAT price is €1,217 or around $1,341 USD.
U.S. pre-sales tax price is $1,199.

iPhone 16 Pro Max with 512GB
Netherlands pre-VAT price is €1,423 or around $1,568 USD.
U.S. pre-sales tax price is $1,399.

iPhone 16 Pro Max with 1TB
Netherlands pre-VAT price is €1,630 or around $1,796 USD.
U.S. pre-sales tax price is $1,599.

iPhones in the Netherlands have a longer/better warranty than those in the U.S.
comparing the pre vat prices is irrelevant. Customer price perception in Europe (and frankly everywhere in the world) is what they would pay for anything, which includes VAT.

There is a gap of 410 USD for the 512GB 16PM. Yes the warranty is 2 years limited vs 90 days in the US but even with applecare added it's still 210 USD difference.
 
comparing the pre vat prices is irrelevant. Customer price perception in Europe (and frankly everywhere in the world) is what they would pay for anything, which includes VAT.

There is a gap of 410 USD for the 512GB 16PM. Yes the warranty is 2 years limited vs 90 days in the US but even with applecare added it's still 210 USD difference.

I understand how pricing works with VAT in Europe but my comparison was specifically addressing Apple pricing (not Apple pricing plus government taxes/fees) and the exchange rate. VAT factors in after the exchange rate.

My revised comparison with AppleCare+ added to U.S. pricing:

iPhone 16 Pro Max with 256GB
Netherlands pre-VAT price is €1,217 or around $1,341 USD.
U.S. pre-sales tax price is $1,199 + $199 AppleCare+ = $1,398.

iPhone 16 Pro Max with 512GB
Netherlands pre-VAT price is €1,423 or around $1,568 USD.
U.S. pre-sales tax price is $1,399 + $199 AppleCare+ = $1,598.

iPhone 16 Pro Max with 1TB
Netherlands pre-VAT price is €1,630 or around $1,796 USD.
U.S. pre-sales tax price is $1,599 + $199 AppleCare+ = $1,798.

Apple pricing (again, not Apple pricing plus government taxes/fees) between the Netherlands and the U.S. is really not that different. If Europeans want to complain about higher overall pricing, they need to complain to their governments about VAT.
 
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I understand how pricing works with VAT in Europe but my comparison was specifically addressing Apple pricing (not Apple pricing plus government taxes/fees) and the exchange rate. VAT factors in after the exchange rate.

My revised comparison with AppleCare+ added to U.S. pricing:

iPhone 16 Pro Max with 256GB
Netherlands pre-VAT price is €1,217 or around $1,341 USD.
U.S. pre-sales tax price is $1,199 + $199 AppleCare+ = $1,398.

iPhone 16 Pro Max with 512GB
Netherlands pre-VAT price is €1,423 or around $1,568 USD.
U.S. pre-sales tax price is $1,399 + $199 AppleCare+ = $1,598.

iPhone 16 Pro Max with 1TB
Netherlands pre-VAT price is €1,630 or around $1,796 USD.
U.S. pre-sales tax price is $1,599 + $199 AppleCare+ = $1,798.

Apple pricing (again, not Apple pricing plus government taxes/fees) between the Netherlands and the U.S. is really not that different. If Europeans want to complain about higher overall pricing, they need to complain to their governments about VAT.
That's precisely I'm talking about. No it's not the issue of higher VAT rates.

As a marketing and sales professional your pricing benchmarking is what customers are paying; not the perception of price.

In the US this maybe benchmarked differently, as the VAT never gets stated in the pricetag of any product. But everywhere else it's not - and that makes sense as people anticipate what they are going to pay when they are making the purchase decision.

I need to pay 1910 USD for 16PM 512GB in the NL.
I need to pay 1500 USD for 16PM 512GB in the US.

simple as that.

Another example 1x Snickers bar costs 1.39 USD in the NL (1.29 EUR). It costs 1.41 USD in the US (both average)
The NL price include 21% VAT. US has a VAT of 7,25%.
 
That's precisely I'm talking about. No it's not the issue of higher VAT rates.

As a marketing and sales professional your pricing benchmarking is what customers are paying; not the perception of price.

In the US this maybe benchmarked differently, as the VAT never gets stated in the pricetag of any product. But everywhere else it's not - and that makes sense as people anticipate what they are going to pay when they are making the purchase decision.

I need to pay 1910 USD for 16PM 512GB in the NL.
I need to pay 1500 USD for 16PM 512GB in the US.

simple as that.

Another example 1x Snickers bar costs 1.39 USD in the NL (1.29 EUR). It costs 1.41 USD in the US (both average)
The NL price include 21% VAT.

If the issue isn’t about higher VAT then you shouldn't include VAT in the comparisons. Use Apple pricing instead, not Apple pricing plus government purchase taxes/fees. That's precisely what I did.

Based on my 16 Pro Max figures and factoring in the exchange rate, Apple (again, not Apple plus governments) has very similar pricing in the U.S. as it does in the Netherlands. That was my point. Period.

One possible scenario:
Step 1: Apple sets U.S. pre-sales tax price e.g., $1,599 for iPhone 16 Pro Max with 1TB
Step 2: Apple makes adjustments for country differences e.g., longer EU warranty adds $199
Step 3: Apple adds steps 1 and 2 together e.g., $1,599 + $199 = $1,798.
Step 4: Apple adjusts to local currency e.g., $1,798 converted to Euros is around €1,630
Step 5: Apple adds VAT e.g., €1,630 + Netherlands VAT = €1,972
Step 6: Apple rounds to nearest $9 (as Apple tends to like to use "charm pricing") e.g., €1,972 becomes €1,979

What is the price of a 1TB iPhone 16 Pro Max in the Netherlands? €1,979.

As a separate discussion, do Apple consumers in Europe pay more overall than those in the U.S.? It certainly appears that way but that’s because of the much higher average VAT compared to average state/local sales tax in the U.S. However, that's a government purchase tax issue which is a separate matter and not what I was trying to address regarding exchange rates.

If Europeans want to see lower prices, perhaps they need to try to get their governments to lower VAT rates. Otherwise, pre-VAT iPhone prices are already pretty similar to pre-sales tax prices in the U.S.


US has a VAT of 7,25%.

FYI... I'm not sure where you got your 7.25% figure from but unlike VAT in European countries, state and local sales taxes (not called "VAT" here) in the U.S. are not necessarily the same for all products or in all cities/states across the country.
 
If the issue isn’t about higher VAT then you shouldn't include VAT in the comparisons. Use Apple pricing instead, not Apple pricing plus government purchase taxes/fees. That's precisely what I did.

Based on my 16 Pro Max figures and factoring in the exchange rate, Apple (again, not Apple plus governments) has very similar pricing in the U.S. as it does in the Netherlands. That was my point. Period.

One possible scenario:
Step 1: Apple sets U.S. pre-sales tax price e.g., $1,599 for iPhone 16 Pro Max with 1TB
Step 2: Apple makes adjustments for country differences e.g., longer EU warranty adds $199
Step 3: Apple adds steps 1 and 2 together e.g., $1,599 + $199 = $1,798.
Step 4: Apple adjusts to local currency e.g., $1,798 converted to Euros is around €1,630
Step 5: Apple adds VAT e.g., €1,630 + Netherlands VAT = €1,972
Step 6: Apple rounds to nearest $9 (as Apple tends to like to use "charm pricing") e.g., €1,972 becomes €1,979

What is the price of a 1TB iPhone 16 Pro Max in the Netherlands? €1,979.

As a separate discussion, do Apple consumers in Europe pay more overall than those in the U.S.? It certainly appears that way but that’s because of the much higher average VAT compared to average state/local sales tax in the U.S. However, that's a government purchase tax issue which is a separate matter and not what I was trying to address regarding exchange rates.

If Europeans want to see lower prices, perhaps they need to try to get their governments to lower VAT rates. Otherwise, pre-VAT iPhone prices are already pretty similar to pre-sales tax prices in the U.S.




FYI... I'm not sure where you got your 7.25% figure from but unlike VAT in European countries, state and local sales taxes (not called "VAT" here) in the U.S. are not necessarily the same for all products or in all cities/states across the country.
also in the UK vat is much higher than the 7.25 % mentioned for holland. However most consumers in the UK pay the sticker price when they check out of the store. Not like the USA where you can end up paying upwards of 8.5% when checking out of the store.
 
However most consumers in the UK pay the sticker price when they check out of the store. Not like the USA where you can end up paying upwards of 8.5% when checking out of the store.

Some state/local sales tax rates in the U.S. can exceed 10%.

I assume the reason manufacturers and retailers in European countries include VAT in published pricing is because VAT is typically consistent throughout a particular country. That's not the case in the U.S. where sales taxes can vary quite a bit by location and/or product type and therefore pre-sales tax pricing is used instead.
 
Some state/local sales tax rates in the U.S. can exceed 10%.

I assume the reason manufacturers and retailers in European countries include VAT in published pricing is because VAT is typically consistent throughout a particular country. That's not the case in the U.S. where sales taxes can vary quite a bit by location and/or product type and therefore pre-sales tax pricing is used instead.
That's not correct. --> https://www.eurofiscalis.com/en/vat-rates-in-ue/

Your comparison only makes sense from an internal Apple perspective, as you're looking at net product prices that impact your OPEX.

It doesn’t align with market share considerations or how you promote your products.

If you're a global company, your target price is always what your customers will actually pay. This is what defines your price positioning in relation to your competition.

In Europe, promotional pricing always includes VAT, so the listed price will naturally be higher than in the US, where sales tax isn’t included. This isn't about whether VAT is higher in Europe; all companies are subject to the same rules.

What I find really inexplicable is the $410 difference.
 

You're saying \the VAT rate for new iPhones isn't typically consistent throughout the Netherlands? Within the various other European countries?


It doesn’t align with market share considerations or how you promote your products.

If you're a global company, your target price is always what your customers will actually pay. This is what defines your price positioning in relation to your competition.

In Europe, promotional pricing always includes VAT, so the listed price will naturally be higher than in the US, where sales tax isn’t included. This isn't about whether VAT is higher in Europe; all companies are subject to the same rules.

What I find really inexplicable is the $410 difference.

As I've explained, the reasons for the $410 price difference you quoted are very obvious and simple. 1) You didn't account for the longer/better warranty in the Netherlands. 2) The Netherlands has a much higher VAT rate than average sales tax rates in the U.S.

If you have an issue with higher iPhone prices in the Netherlands, complain to your government about the high VAT. If the Netherlands VAT rate was, for example, reduced to 7.25% then prices would be comparable to iPhone prices in the U.S. with a 7.25% sales tax.

Using the 1TB iPhone 16 Pro Max as an example:
Netherlands price with reduced 7.25% VAT (instead of 21%) = €1,748 or around $1,938 USD
U.S. price with warranty adjustment (+$199) and 7.25% sales tax = $1,928

These are practically the same selling price.

Once again, the issue is the high VAT in the Netherlands and that's your government’s doing (and hopefully most of the VAT revenue benefits Netherlands citizens). I don't think you should expect Apple to set iPhone pricing (not iPhone pricing plus VAT/sales tax) that much lower in the Netherlands than in the U.S. to make up for YOUR government's high VAT.
 
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