iPhone 16 Still Banned in Indonesia Despite $1B Apple Investment Deal

[azentropy]

There is a huge trade deficit between the US (imports 35B) and Indonesia (Imports 23B). Link
How about forcing Indonesia to invest 12B in the US to make up for it?

Note: I don't believe we should do that, but just giving another side of the story.

 

[revfife]

People who are upset about Trump's tariffs don't realize that most of these countries do the same thing.

An American tariff on goods from these countries is just repaying the favor.

 

[WarmWinterHat]

People who are upset about Trump's tariffs don't realize that most of these countries do the same thing.

An American tariff on goods from these countries is just repaying the favor.

The difference is that their citizens pay for those tariffs, and they are really none of the US government's business. We will be paying for our tariffs with higher prices.

I don't consider the price of my tech jumping 25% overnight as a favor, but perhaps I have a different definition.

 

[macfacts]

Does Indonesia has this requirement for all of the companies that sell Android phones in their country??

The android phones there for sale are in compliance with this requirement. Do a Siri search for Samsung (or Xiaomi) Indonesia factory

 

[macfacts]

People who are upset about Trump's tariffs don't realize that most of these countries do the same thing.

An American tariff on goods from these countries is just repaying the favor.

What made in Indonesia products do Americans buy?

 

[WarmWinterHat]

What made in Indonesia products do Americans buy?

Palm oil and tires. That's pretty much it.

Tires we can and do produce. Palm oil we cannot, so it will just lead to increased prices on food.

 

[Makanmata]

As a person who has spent quite a bit of time there and is exceptionally fond of the place, Indonesia is one of the world's most backwards countries with the most counterproductive economic and development policies because it's leaders are nothing but corrupt demagogues.

 

[HouseLannister]

$1B is nothing for a population of 300 million of which 90% are Android users. Should be $10B investment at least given the potential.

Just sounds like "potential" to lose more money on a market that doesn't use your products and services.
Once you have a 90% monopoly in a country, you aren't going to get a lot of switchers by introducing a more expensive product with a lot of ecosystem lock in. That's a hard market to win over.

 

[Makanmata]

What made in Indonesia products do Americans buy?

Copper, nickel and palm oil.

 

[WarmWinterHat]

Copper, nickel and palm oil.

Cooper and nickel are commodity products like oil and just dumped into the global supply, so we pay world market prices regardless of where it comes from. Palm oil is directly imported for foodstuffs and soap/beauty products, even though it's a commodity too.

Tires are a big import, too, but not directly to the consumer.

 

[cocky jeremy]

I'd tell them, "Bye, Felicia" and let them enjoy their garbage android phones.

 

[Biro]

Indonesia is overplaying its hand. If I were Apple, I would walk.

 

[Madhatter32]

Sure Apple can do that and completely cede the market, but Chinese phone companies did and will continue to happily into the role, while complying with Indonesia's rules. Oppo and Honor are now the top selling phones, have just increased their manufacturing in Indonesia and have pledged to increase it further. It's in Apple and it's shareholder's business interest to follow the rules.

Indonesia's main export to the US is palm oil, so the only thing tariffs will do is make our food prices jump. In short, they won't do a damn thing except make Indonesia buckle down. My family avoids palm oil like the plague, for environmental reasons, but most don't.

Indonesia needs to make a choice: to be a US ally or not. Being a true US ally partially means engaging in free trade -- with bilateral rules applicable to both countries. Apple should move manufacturing and investment to friendly countries because it is in the national interest for them to do so.

 

[WarmWinterHat]

Indonesia needs to make a choice: to be a US ally or not. Being a true US ally partially means engaging in free trade -- with bilateral rules applicable to both countries. Apple should move manufacturing and investment to friendly countries because it is in the national interest for them to do so.

Does it? How so when our upcoming president has promised several times, including yesterday, to emergency implement 10-25% tariffs, across the board, on all imports including from, but not limited to, our staunchest allies?

Indonesia is not a US ally, by the way. There are decent relations, but no formal economic or military agreements.

 

[IceCool]

I know, right? We shouldn’t be outsourcing corruption. There are hardworking American politicians that need bribing… I mean, there are inauguration funds that need donating to… for “unity”!!!

Don’t forget one US politician’s $20M debt!

 

[I7guy]

The android phones there for sale are in compliance with this requirement. Do a Siri search for Samsung (or Xiaomi) Indonesia factory

Do you really know who is in compliance to the exact letter of the law?

 

[cicalinarrot]

I’ll be sit here with popcorn and wait for geopolitics and Indonesia experts on the legal system defending Indonesia,

Yeah, this site, Indonesiarumors.com, is so full of fanboys of Indonesia who defend Indonesia whatever they do.
So annoying.

 

[rman0726]

it’s a complicated situation. How the domestic production requirements can be fulfilled is not clearly specified in the law (are laws ever fully explicit in every detail?). The law appears to suggest goods and services, including Apple's money to build up and support app developers, can fulfill requirements.

Also, if you bring up possible bribery, people can interpret Indonesian’s law as a form of requiring bribes. How about we just say that Apple is trying to figure out how to follow the law in a way that doesn't cost more money than Apple will make in Indonesia (most smartphones purchased there are low-end, inexpensive models), won't result in products that do not meet Apple's quality requirements, have a secure supply chain, etc.

There are various Chinese and some others that have been and are ramping up production and services in the country, but they are also companies that sell inexpensive phone models (that lose the companies money to make or only allow a slim profit).

The history of this law goes back about 10 years. The U.S. government, other governments, and companies are concerned about it for various reasons, including that it might break international trade agreements Indonesia is part of (i.e., the World Trade Organization): https://www.reuters.com/article/tec...de-in-indonesia-smartphone-law-idUSKBN0LS0CU/

I don't understand this protectionistic law and I'd venture no one commenting here really does. But my take is that Apple appears to be trying to figure out how to follow the law and the Indonesian government's requirements that are a moving target. Then there is also the issue of precedent. If Indonesia can do this, what stops every other country from having a law like this? I dislike bringing up a slippery slope, but given the surge in populism and protectionism around the world, including in the U.S., E.U., South America, India, and other locations, international business is becoming increasingly complex. That's a change from the 1990s through 2010s when globalization generally ruled.

By the way, the requirement is now up to 40%, not 35%: https://www.reuters.com/technology/...investment-proposal-official-says-2025-01-07/

Agreed. Also, what does it matter what specific part they are making? The average monthly income there is a few hundred USD, so I’m going to assume that a factory job making any Apple components would at worst still be a decent job opportunity for their citizens. Isn’t that the true goal of the law?

They are basically saying that it doesn’t make financial sense to build X in your country, but how about we make Y in your country to meet the end goal of the law.

 

[Madhatter32]

Does it? How so when our upcoming president has promised several times, including yesterday, to emergency implement 10-25% tariffs, across the board, on all imports including from, but not limited to, our staunchest allies?

Indonesia is not a US ally, by the way. There are decent relations, but no formal economic or military agreements.

I know they are not an ally -- quite obvious. Therefore, it's should be 100% tariffs for the Indonesians -- and let them see how they like living under Chinese control.

 

[WarmWinterHat]

I know they are not an ally -- quite obvious. Therefore, it's should be 100% tariffs for the Indonesians -- and let them see how they like living under Chinese control.

You don't seem to understand tariffs. The US can't implement tariffs on Indonesians, we can implement them on Indonesian goods, which will be paid by US companies, and US citizens. Indonesians won't care either way.

..or US companies could just follow the rules of the places they want to operate and do business in, instead of trying to export US-style business regulations and laws.

 

[Madhatter32]

You don't seem to understand tariffs. The US can't implement tariffs on Indonesians, we can implement them on Indonesian goods, which will be paid by US companies, and US citizens.

It cost exactly the same to them, and they will make the same amount of money.

I understand quite well. It's all about market share of the US economy. More expensive to import from an unfavored country and less expensive to import from a favored country. Alternatively, produce domestically if possible.

 

[knappeduivel]

I'll sit here with popcorns and wait for geoplitics and Indonesian's legal system and politics experts defending poor Apple.

Yeah I spend hours watching geoplitics and Indonesian's legal system and politics experts defending Apple. Way more fun than tv.

 

[WarmWinterHat]

I understand quite well. It's all about market share of the US economy. More expensive to import from an unfavored country and less expensive to import from a favored country. Alternatively, produce domestically if possible.

Palm oil, their biggest export, can't be produced in the US as we don't have the climate and ecosystem for it. It's a commodity, so we pay market price wherever it comes from. Same with copper and other metals. You can only implement tariffs on commodities from a specific county if *all* countries agree, otherwise it is just put in the world market and bought on the world market at world market prices.

All that said, it would be nice if we could wean ourselves off palm oil completely. It's really, really terrible for the environment.

 

[roar08]

Last time I read on some several news website, it's around 30 trillion IDR (~1.849 million USD) from all apple gadgets combined (iPhones, iPads, Macs) excluding the accessories.

30T IDR is ~1.849 billion USD.

 

[mlenger]

So what if you are not Apple but a small business? You can’t sell a product in Indonesia because you don’t make it there? Sounds to me like a money grab by the Indonesian government.