Sananda, you seem to forget, that although the iPhone is now subsidised in a traditional way, the cheaper monthly payment for the old iphone actually had to be shared with apple. So whether they have to share it with apple or put it towards the iPhone seems the same. And not only that, the new phone _is_ propably cheaper to subsidise than the old one, so even less should go towards the "extra" (be it sharing with apple or t'wards the phone).
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iPhone 3G Hands On, Notes, and Questions
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At&t is the only company that has reception at both my house and my job. so being locked into them is just fine by me (can be easy to forget that not everybody has had the great/horrible experience that you have had with x-company) The plastic back is great as far as i am concerned... a device is to be functional before it is to be pretty (granted both IS better). But if a plastic back gives me better reception/audio quality/battery life then awesome! I have been waiting to say this for months.... Aluminum, so sleek and refined that cheap beer companies have been using it for decades.
A colleague of mine had the same problem with her iPhone. Everyone tried tweaking the settings but they couldn't get a decent volume on it. That was until a non-techie passerby noticed that the protective film was still attached to the screen neatly covering the speaker.....
apparently it doesn't add up to be the same for quite a while according to at&t:
In the near term, we anticipate the new agreement will likely result in some pressure on margins and earnings, reflecting the costs of subsidized device pricing, which, in turn, is expected to drive increased subscriber volumes. We anticipate potential dilution to earnings per share from this initiative in the $0.10 to $0.12 range this year and next, with a 2008 adjusted consolidated operating income margin of approximately 24 percent and a full-year 2008 wireless OIBDA margin in the 39 to 40 percent range. As recurring revenue streams build without any further revenue sharing required, we expect the initiative to turn earnings-positive in 2010.
How about Philips? or Roberts? or Morphy Richards?
There are so many people on these boards who have virtually no commericial awareness or business sense.
Apple are a commercial organisation that want to hit the maximum market penetration possible. That is governing nearly every iPhone decision that they are making. They need a secure, stable, use-friendly and well distributed platform to hit the mass market - just like they did with the iPod.
I dont understand how anyone can miss that.
And you take that at face value? Splendid. I guess from now on, we don't need journalism, nor critical thinking, let's just rely on press releases where they say as much, but you seem to forget, that in that period they're also spending a ******** of money to roll out 3G-masts. So all of you iPhoners are funding those masts.
Anyway, it's time for me to read The Daily P-Release.
i'm not sure what your argument is. i have previously said that i think the increase in monthly fee is in line with all other devices now and reflects the fact that iphone is now sold in much the same way as other devices. you have pointed out that there is a saving for at&t as they no longer have to share revenue with apple. i set out a part of their press release setting out the effect of the cost of subsidies.
in return you are essentially saying that for unknown reasons we ought not to accept what at&t are saying and that my argument "forgets" the money at&t are spending on 3G. i simply don't see the relevancy of either of these points to my argument that iphone is now on the usual monthly plans because of the change to the model of subsidisation rather than because data is now delivered by 3G.
here's another thread where the op says much the same things as me: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/498018/
No, I'm saying that your first statement where you state that since the phone is now subsidised as OPPOSED to the old the phone and they therefore have to get the money in like this, is flawed. Since they on the old one, paid Apple for the phone as well, only in installments, they know pay themselves for the outlay (on a phone, that is propably cheaper for them too), only this time around they upped the prices.
You ought to see that it's the same, only now they asking for more money. You're in fact saying they made more money on the old phone, than they do with this (or-)deal, which I doubt very much. They may not be making much money after investments and so forth, but I'm willing to bet their revenue is bigger. They're just using more, percentagewise, of the revenue.
P.S. I like that link of yours. Linking to an OP on Macrumors. Excellent. As if it somehow has more weight because some fella wrote it hours or days earlier …
You ought to see that it's the same, only now they asking for more money. You're in fact saying they made more money on the old phone, than they do with this (or-)deal, which I doubt very much. They may not be making much money after investments and so forth, but I'm willing to bet their revenue is bigger. They're just using more, percentagewise, of the revenue.
P.S. I like that link of yours. Linking to an OP on Macrumors. Excellent. As if it somehow has more weight because some fella wrote it hours or days earlier …
You are spot on. The amusing thing is that Apple fans seem to think that Apple somehow owes them a living. The iPhone is going onto a standard distribution model because that is the most efficient way to get into the cellular market. You wouldnt expect a typical phone user to march into a phone shop and demand to take a contract handset with no strings attached!!!
The iPhone is a global product. 95% of the planet is ready for 3G or will be in the immediate future. The fact that reception is patchy at best in parts of the US is neither here nor there for apples business plan!
i didn't say that. i said that iphone got a special plan to reflect the fact that customers were paying full price. now iphone customers are getting the same deal as everyone else since it is being sold as within the same business model as all other phones.
what??
i thought he explained it rather well and that's why i linked it. i saw someone mention yesterday that your username is rather apt and i must say i'm beginning to agree with that.
First of all, I'm not an Apple-fan. Secondly:
Where the hell do you get your numbers from? 95%? Ha ha!
Have you any idea of the state of the world?
The funny thing is, I bet you're american - you know, the country that is behind most every country in Europe by years and even further behind Japan when it comes to IT and telecom.
"iPhone 3G harnesses the power of AT&T’s broad and powerful 3G mobile broadband network,
which offers 3G mobile phones download speeds of up to 1.4 Mbps."
was i just hearing things?.. i thought 3G was supposed to be around 2.7 mbps.
WHY do existing iphone owners have to ...
A: spend $199 again for the phone
B: renew their 2 year contract again
C: pay $10 more for the 3G and
D: loose their 200 text messages (unless u pay for them)??
GIVE US A FAIR UPGRADE OPTION APPLE!!!!!!!!
anyone else think this is unfair??? we paid $400-500 dollars for a slower phone. people should be up in arms! petition anyone?
which offers 3G mobile phones download speeds of up to 1.4 Mbps."
was i just hearing things?.. i thought 3G was supposed to be around 2.7 mbps. WHY do existing iphone owners have to ...
A: spend $199 again for the phone
B: renew their 2 year contract again
C: pay $10 more for the 3G and
D: loose their 200 text messages (unless u pay for them)??
GIVE US A FAIR UPGRADE OPTION APPLE!!!!!!!!
anyone else think this is unfair??? we paid $400-500 dollars for a slower phone. people should be up in arms! petition anyone?
I've been thinking about selling my 8gb to get the 3g. where do you sell it? ebay? all i've seen on there are unlocked phones :-/
Really? That seems to be what you were saying.
Sigh. "Since they (AT&T) paid apple for the old one as well. Only with that phone, they paid it with "installments.". This time around they'll just pay back themselves when the revenue begins to come. They're paying back themselves, because they laid down an outlay to begin with, or "invested" in the customer, if you wish.
Ah, I see you're a fifth grader. I have to say, it's a last resort for people without arguments to begin making "fun" of peoples names and nicks. seriously, most people grew out of that before they could even write. Why didn't you?
yes
well is suppose you could look at that way.
or you could say that they were completely separate models. the first one, the rationale was that iphone would bring customers to a network because it was supposed to be so good. operators were finding, certainly in the uk, that there were more mobiles than people so the only ways to maintain or increase profitability are to take customers from other network or to convert your own customers from ,ow paying pay and go people to high paying monthly users preferably paying for data. iphone appeared set to deliver both these things are so the idea was that if the device were responsible for the revenue it ought to share that revenue. whereas the traditional model is that it's deals and subsidised handset that entice customers.
i would characterise it as a shift in models rather than different ways of subsidising the handset.
sorry, but i find your methods of interacting with people pretty tosserish. i linked to another post because in thought you might find it interesting and you try to score points. and you appear to be laughing at and talking down to lordgaino.
It's 1/4 of a mm, and the more rounded edges should mean it's easier to fit into tight clothes.
I think they had to go to plastic because of the reception for 3G and GPS. I don't think they really had a choice about it. I hate the idea of having a plastic back because of the scratches, and it makes it feel like every other plastic phone on the market.
And it will get scratched up even more if you sit it down because it will be spinning around on the pivot point of the thicker area. Maybe the Apple logo is made of metal and it sits on that when it is laying on its back.
"iPhone 3G harnesses the power of AT&T’s broad and powerful 3G mobile broadband network,
which offers 3G mobile phones download speeds of up to 1.4 Mbps."
WHY do existing iphone owners have to ...
A: spend $199 again for the phone
B: renew their 2 year contract again
C: pay $10 more for the 3G and
D: loose their 200 text messages (unless u pay for them)??
GIVE US A FAIR UPGRADE OPTION APPLE!!!!!!!!
anyone else think this is unfair??? we paid $400-500 dollars for a slower phone. people should be up in arms! petition anyone?
Not really, you are getting a new, next-generation iPhone.
Also, since they are no longer revenue-sharing with Apple, you're just going to be getting the same plans that all the other AT&T Smartphone users are paying....
No.
You paid that a year ago.
Things move on. Get over it. It was clearly good enough for you back then, and you aren't being forced to upgrade, so stick with your old iPhone.
I'm also happy those people who were gleefully posting about getting lots of money for selling their old iPhone on eBay are now having to wait a month, and then pay a higher monthly rate for the 3G iPhone to cover the up-front subsidy. Just seeing their whiny posts here bemoaning their decision to sell for a large profit makes me quite happy.
No, it's to cover the subsidy up front for the phone. At least you get faster data connections as well.
$200 subsidy -> $240 more revenue (+ SMS, but I've never heard of a modern phone contract that didn't include SMS messages when you're paying so much already, that's really backwards). Probably works out at a >20% interest rate on that $200 loan. Assuming that the iPhone 3G would otherwise have an RRP of $400 that is...
Strategy
ATTpple is clearly banking on the the hardcore Apple fans to come out in mass and dump the iPhone1 for the the new iPhone3G. Problem is, the hardcore fans are their smartest customers and they see through all this bait and switch that ATTpple is using. I have no doubt they have the 2.0 firmware ready to go, but if they release it now and everyone upgrades their iPhone1 and its happy with the new features, they won't be going out to buy the plastic iPhone3G.
I also bet the phones will be in stores before July 11th. Apple does not want huge lines at the stores on July 11th waiting for the phones because it will clearly show how bad the in store activation process is going to be. My guess is it will take 20 minutes per customer to buy, sign the contract and activate the phone. Expect the iPhone3G to be in stores sooner than later to try and mitigate this huge risk ATTpple is taking at the purchasing point. iTunes activation was a great innovation, too bad Steve got worked over and dumped it.
ATTpple is clearly banking on the the hardcore Apple fans to come out in mass and dump the iPhone1 for the the new iPhone3G. Problem is, the hardcore fans are their smartest customers and they see through all this bait and switch that ATTpple is using. I have no doubt they have the 2.0 firmware ready to go, but if they release it now and everyone upgrades their iPhone1 and its happy with the new features, they won't be going out to buy the plastic iPhone3G.
I also bet the phones will be in stores before July 11th. Apple does not want huge lines at the stores on July 11th waiting for the phones because it will clearly show how bad the in store activation process is going to be. My guess is it will take 20 minutes per customer to buy, sign the contract and activate the phone. Expect the iPhone3G to be in stores sooner than later to try and mitigate this huge risk ATTpple is taking at the purchasing point. iTunes activation was a great innovation, too bad Steve got worked over and dumped it.