iPhone 3GS is sending lots of data on its own!

[snowmoon]

Another night spent turned off, another repeat of the same story.
What I'm noticing, however, is that data usage is being reported for the minute that the phone is turned on each morning.
It's almost as if the phone reports to the network the aggregate data usage throughout the day. However, since that would open the door for abuse, I wonder if AT&T's network is simply checking in with the phone before posting data usage to the account.

So my theory is back to thinking it's a data usage summary. It just needs the phone to be on to do it for some reason. Otherwise, it happens at 2am-ish.

Combine this with the earlier note of loss of push notification in the logs for the time in question and you have....

The system momentarily kicks you off your session once every 24 hours or so in order to calculate usage. This also occurs any time the phone disconnects from the 3g such as when placed in airplane mode.

 

[Gizmotoy]

I assume we'll probably be seeing some movement on this given that it just made the front page of Slashdot.

If the iPhone is truly self-reporting usage overnight, how long will it really be until some enterprising jailbreaker develops a way to reset to a small value and randomize the data counter at say, midnight, just before the phone self-reports?

I can't see where AT&T would let that happen. On the other hand, why then would it need to communicate with your device? It is certainly suspicious behavior.

 

[firewood]

24-hour Push Notification reset cycle?

Theory #47:

AT&T only accounts for network data use at the end of a data connection, not for every individual data packet. For most apps, that's when you disconnect a service or quit the app. Then the accounting system adds up all the kB of data packets and posts the sum.

But for Push Notifications, a data connection to monitor for push is left running continuously for 24 hours, so there's no record of push data usage mid-day. However Push might be reseting it's connection in the middle of the night. During that disconnect, all Push services data usage for the previous day is added up and entered into the accounting system.

And for some reason, if you go into Airplane mode, the AT&T accounting system seem to waits until you reconnect before accounting for the previous Push disconnect.

Note that even if you don't use Push for email, Apple's App Store app uses push notifications to badge updated apps.

You could probably test this theory by using a bunch of Push services (have someone send you several emails), then turning Push Notification completely off and then back on in the middle of the day (maybe also going in and out of Airplane mode for a few minutes), and seeing if that same type of charges shows up around the time you reset your Push connection, instead of just in the middle of the night.

 

[Gizmotoy]

Perhaps, but I have several days last month alone where I had something like 10-40MB show up at 1am, with no apparent usage during the day. I can guarantee that I'm in and out of apps logging data on the towers throughout the day, every day.

I don't see any way to rack up that kind of usage from push messages (of which I typically receive none or few).

 

[mkrishnan]

For one thing, using these can help us track how many times the link has been used.

Please be forewarned that we have already blocked many URL shorteners with our spam filter, because of the spam issue, and we aren't offering you any guarantee that the URL shortener you use will not be blocked in the future.... (Also, if you want to post a link, post a link... if you want to manage statistics or use referral benefits, do it on your blog, please).

 

[jamesnajera]

Here is the thing, the bottom line is the iPhone Edge, iPhone 3G, and iPhone 3GS all use CELLULAR DATA in standby mode for data transfers, regardless if you are at home with Wifi and plugged in (please correct me if I am wrong).

Now according to Slashdot:

http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/10/06/18/152254/Sleeping-iPhones-Send-Phantom-Data

The iPhone 4 will not do the above, because it has better power management, and should use Wifi (if available) when in standby mode for data transfers.

So this leads me to a conclusion, Apple needs to allow the user to disable CELLULAR DATA transfers on the iPhone Edge, iPhone 3G, and iPhone 3GS (and probably the iPhone 4). Reason why? Because there are going to be a lot of new users who have either bought a new 3GS at the lower price, or who bought the other iPhones used and will be signed to a NEW 200MB or 2GB data plan. Those customers need the ability to protect themselves from over charges on data.

 

[elistan]

firewood and snowmoon, I like what you're both saying regarding the AT&T connection being reset in order to tally data usage. At first intuition, it would make sense to run up the tally when the connection is severed - but unless there's a heartbeat, and I'm pretty sure there's not, the AT&T network can never be 100% sure that the connection has truly been closed on the phone side. So, once per day in the early morning, either the phone or the network (no idea which) initiates a connection reset at which point AT&T tallies the data usage since it knows the connection has been reset, OR it waits for the phone to request an all-new connection, like when its powered cycled, at which point, again, it knows for sure the connection has been reset.

So new theory #48 - there actually isn't anything in the phone telling AT&T how much data was used, like I speculated before - the communication between AT&T and the phone is simply about resetting the connection so that AT&T can run their tabulation.

Next experiment, when I feel like getting around to it:
1) Download a couple MB
2) Power cycle phone, note time of day.
3) Wait some amount of time.
4) Goto 1 a few times.
5) The next day, check AT&T's website for usage statistics, see if they match up with times that the phone was power cycled.

 

[Krevnik]

Perhaps, but I have several days last month alone where I had something like 10-40MB show up at 1am, with no apparent usage during the day. I can guarantee that I'm in and out of apps logging data on the towers throughout the day, every day.

Hmm, so you use data through the day, maybe say 10-40MB worth. And it appears at 1am only, and not at any other point in the day?

Sounds like aggregation to me.

 

[elistan]

Here is the thing, the bottom line is the iPhone Edge, iPhone 3G, and iPhone 3GS all use CELLULAR DATA in standby mode for data transfers, regardless if you are at home with Wifi and plugged in (please correct me if I am wrong).

Yes. But that's not a factor in this situation - for example, my phone spends its nights active, showing the weather app, and connected to wifi. And AT&T still shows data usage at 1:30am when the phone is unused. I suspect that even the iPhone 4G, when using wifi while on standy by, will show the same data usage patterns according to AT&T, unless they change their reporting system on their end.

Now according to Slashdot:

http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/10/06/18/152254/Sleeping-iPhones-Send-Phantom-Data

The iPhone 4 will not do the above, because it has better power management, and should use Wifi (if available) when in standby mode for data transfers.

So this leads me to a conclusion, Apple needs to allow the user to disable CELLULAR DATA transfers on the iPhone Edge, iPhone 3G, and iPhone 3GS (and probably the iPhone 4). Reason why? Because there are going to be a lot of new users who have either bought a new 3GS at the lower price, or who bought the other iPhones used and will be signed to a NEW 200MB or 2GB data plan. Those customers need the ability to protect themselves from over charges on data.

So far, the indicators are that this is a reporting configuration on AT&T's part, rather than an actual data being sent early in the morning. If their report shows, for example, 10MB used at 2:00am, it's because they used 10MB sometime during the day. The only way they would have to protect themselves from overage charges is, simply, to use the phone less.

 

[Gizmotoy]

Hmm, so you use data through the day, maybe say 10-40MB worth. And it appears at 1am only, and not at any other point in the day?

Sounds like aggregation to me.

It's even crazier than that. It seems like AT&T's website is working again for me, so I can see my full bill. I was wrong.

There are only 2 days out of the entire month that my iPhone reported usages during the day. That sounds just about like the number of times I'd typically reboot the device in a month. I have strong 3G signal the entire day, both at work, at home, and on the drive (never below all 5 bars, yes I'm lucky ).

My wife's phone, on the other hand, reported daytime data most days. She works in a building where the iPhone frequently loses all connection to AT&T. It's like a dungeon. I can see that the days where no daytime data was reported were on the weekends or days where she didn't work from that location.

It sounds like elistan, firewood, and snowmoon's theory may be in the right direction.

Interesting note: My phone reported data at exactly 2:15am 9 days in a row, then at exactly 2:39 for 4 days in a row, then 2:22 for the remaining days of the month. There were a couple other times that were repeated twice in a row. This also looks suspicious.

 

[jamesnajera]

So far, the indicators are that this is a reporting configuration on AT&T's part, rather than an actual data being sent early in the morning. If their report shows, for example, 10MB used at 2:00am, it's because they used 10MB sometime during the day. The only way they would have to protect themselves from overage charges is, simply, to use the phone less.

I understand your point, and it turns out this maybe be fair on ATT's part for calculating cellular data usage.

But I think there is a bigger problem, this issue pointed out. The iPhone Edge, iPhone 3G, and iPhone 3GS are using cellular data in standby mode even if wifi is available. Maybe this should be a new discussion, but the way I see it, if my iPhone can use available Wifi, I should not have to use cellular data for tasks like email push or fetch actions, which iPhone Edge, iPhone 3G, and iPhone 3GS are doing. And with that respect, Apple should allow the customer to force the use of Wifi for all data in standby mode or regular mode.

 

[Krevnik]

Maybe this should be a new discussion, but the way I see it, if my iPhone can use available Wifi, I should not have to use cellular data for tasks like email push or fetch actions, which iPhone Edge, iPhone 3G, and iPhone 3GS are doing. And with that respect, Apple should allow the customer to force the use of Wifi for all data in standby mode or regular mode.

It's looking like iOS 4 actually does stay on WiFi when put to sleep on the older models. It has a bit of an impact on battery life driving both radios... but it is happening. And I agree it is important without unlimited plans being offered anymore.

It sounds like elistan, firewood, and snowmoon's theory may be in the right direction.
.

I won't quote my whole post, but I tried to bring this up awhile back... it just got buried and ignored.

So, a couple things to mention here:

So you've got me, elistan, firewood, and snowmoon all thinking along the same track, and I've been seeing similar behavior on my end. Just that the time all my data is reported tends to be just after 11pm local time. That they've scrounged up more concrete data by examining the phone logs is actually pretty awesome. I've been bogged down in other projects to dig too deeply on the specifics here that determines the timestamp on the call... but this has been the behavior I even saw with my Windows Mobile device when I used push then.

 

[elistan]

Good points, Krevnic. So, assuming we've nailed down the "phantom 2am data transfer" issue, yeah, it'd be fun to understand the timing of the billing entries. Why the exact same time several days in a row, but different times on other different days? My early morning billing entries ranged from 1:09am to 1:47am or something like that, but I'm pretty sure my last usage of the phone each day was within a window much larger than 38 minutes. Hmm, weird.

 

[serialtoon]

This is the exact reason why companies CANNOT limit data. The internet and the way data packeting works is just too unreliable to limit someones use. I wonder how long it will be before ATT gets a class action lawsuit for people using up thier data to display ads they didnt "want". This is going to be a big ol' mess.

 

[elistan]

Well Krevnic, I'd say you've nailed it. Observe the results of my download-reboot-repeat experiment:

06/18 05:21 PM phone Internet/MEdia Net Sent 20488KB
06/18 04:51 PM phone Internet/MEdia Net Sent 7218KB
06/18 04:32 PM phone Internet/MEdia Net Sent 1907KB


My sequence of events:
4:28pm, disable wifi, put phone into airplane mode, reboot phone
4:32pm, disable airplane mode, establish EDGE connection, update AT&T Mark The Spot.
4:42pm, turn airplane mode back on
4:51pm, disable airplane mode, establish EDGE connection
- Per our theory, this reconnection causes a tabulation of previous data usage
- Note the 1907 KB of usage reported for 4:32. This is similar to the size of the app I updated.
4:51pm, update The Weather Channel
5:13pm, update finished, enable airplane mode
5:20pm, disable airplane mode, establish EDGE connection
- Again, note the 7218 KB of usage for the 4:51pm time. And again, very similar to the app size.
5:20pm, update Emerald Chronometer
6:08pm, reboot iPhone, reestablish EDGE connection
- And finally, no surprise, 20,488 KB of usage for 5:21pm. And yes, this is a bigger app.

At some point later today or tonight, my usage after 6:08pm will show up with a time-stamp of 6:08pm.

So, to conclude:
When a new cell connection is established, all the data used prior to that, and since the last new cell connection, is tabulated and reported as a single number. The time stamp of the old connection is used.
If the same cell connection is used all day, sometime during the early morning hours the data usage since the previous tabulation is totaled up and reported. Possibly the iPhone forces a new connection, or the AT&T network does, or perhaps it's just something done on the back-end. It appears that the data shown is the amount used after the 2am or whatever time.
The important point to keep in mind is that these "phantom" 2am data usage reports are simply summaries of usage since your previous new cell connection.

The interesting side effect is that if you want to have a break-down of usage for a particular task, reboot your phone, perform the task, then reboot again. You should see the usage for that task show up with a time-stamp of the first reboot.

I'd love it if somebody else tried this experiment and verified my findings.

 

[Rachel Faith]

Well, it seems that this is just an ATT data report left over from their legacy methodology from the old dial up reporting code. While the jury is still out, it is the best theory so far for a couple of very good reasons.

First: ATT continues to play dumb. And while they ARE dumb for trying to restrict data usage and a whole host of other piss poor management decisions, they DO know what is going on here. And number 2 will explain WHY they don't wanna admit it.

Second: If this is just an aggregate reporting of usage, it means that ATT doesn't truly KNOW how much data you are using at the time you are using it, and has to ASK your phone for a report. Now, if true, imagine what some jailbreaking coder could do with an app that would change the logs and essentially LIE to ATT when they ask the phone for the report??

If I was ATT using 1990's tech for accounting, because I didn't want to write some very new code to make reporting live for millions of data users, I sure as HELL wouldn't admit it and let the jailbreaking coders get a heads up on finding a way around my anticquaited data reporting model.

This is the only theory that makes sense. Apps don't phone home, Apple would ban them so fast. There isn't any secret reporting being done, except by ATT for ATT. They are the only party interested at ALL in your data use. Cause they gotta CHARGE for it.

I'd also be VERY willing to bet that, knowing what I know about old school data dial up reporting, that it GUESSES about usage too. And this would also explain why some users are seeing their midnight reports as close to usage and others are way over.

We saw lots of this way way back on AOL when you had to pay by the minute for dial up. It was a dirty little secret that got known, just about the time that AOL got enough of a customer base to announce their unlimited dial up plans and sweep it under the rug. Old timers will remember or know of what I speak.

So, IMHO, mystery solved. ATT doesn't have live tracking, is using an old legacy script to run in the middle of the night and just asks your phone "Say, iPhone, just checkin' but how much data do you think you used today"?

And ATT does NOT want the whole world to know that they DON'T know and are guessing half the time. LOL

But now you do know...

And like someone else said... here come the class action lawsuits... especially once you get billed for the data of incoming iAds.

ATT & Apple is a marriage doomed to divorce and I for one can hardly wait!!

 

[leodavinci0]

Well Krevnic, I'd say you've nailed it. Observe the results of my download-reboot-repeat experiment:

06/18 05:21 PM phone Internet/MEdia Net Sent 20488KB
06/18 04:51 PM phone Internet/MEdia Net Sent 7218KB
06/18 04:32 PM phone Internet/MEdia Net Sent 1907KB


My sequence of events:
4:28pm, disable wifi, put phone into airplane mode, reboot phone
4:32pm, disable airplane mode, establish EDGE connection, update AT&T Mark The Spot.
4:42pm, turn airplane mode back on
4:51pm, disable airplane mode, establish EDGE connection
- Per our theory, this reconnection causes a tabulation of previous data usage
- Note the 1907 KB of usage reported for 4:32. This is similar to the size of the app I updated.
4:51pm, update The Weather Channel
5:13pm, update finished, enable airplane mode
5:20pm, disable airplane mode, establish EDGE connection
- Again, note the 7218 KB of usage for the 4:51pm time. And again, very similar to the app size.
5:20pm, update Emerald Chronometer
6:08pm, reboot iPhone, reestablish EDGE connection
- And finally, no surprise, 20,488 KB of usage for 5:21pm. And yes, this is a bigger app.

At some point later today or tonight, my usage after 6:08pm will show up with a time-stamp of 6:08pm.

So, to conclude:
When a new cell connection is established, all the data used prior to that, and since the last new cell connection, is tabulated and reported as a single number. The time stamp of the old connection is used.
If the same cell connection is used all day, sometime during the early morning hours the data usage since the previous tabulation is totaled up and reported. Possibly the iPhone forces a new connection, or the AT&T network does, or perhaps it's just something done on the back-end. It appears that the data shown is the amount used after the 2am or whatever time.
The important point to keep in mind is that these "phantom" 2am data usage reports are simply summaries of usage since your previous new cell connection.

The interesting side effect is that if you want to have a break-down of usage for a particular task, reboot your phone, perform the task, then reboot again. You should see the usage for that task show up with a time-stamp of the first reboot.

I'd love it if somebody else tried this experiment and verified my findings.

You must be an engineer. I tried this without taking notes like you did, and found similar findings as you. I used several apps and noted how much I used during certain days where my usage was high, using the usage meter on the phone. The amount shown on the usage meter on the phone appeared to be correct for what I was doing, and the usage shown on my AT&T account was consistent with the phone's amount, this includes the ~2 AM transfers. At first I thought it might be Google Maps doing this, and updating its usage separately from other apps, since I noticed the early morning usage tended to follow days I was on the road, but your findings are convincing Elistan. As another commenter posted, I wonder if this can be hacked? We'll probably hear definitively what is doing this soon, when the first limited data bills start rolling in with data usage shown; I bet many more people will complain and AT&T will need to provide some relatively truthful statement about it.

 

[variable455]

go back to whatever you were doing.

tin hats off people. here's the deal.

all ATT devices call the mothership to "sync" your usage data.

that is all.

http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/18/another-iphone-mystery-explained/

Fortunately, this one has a happy ending. AT&T spokesman Mark Siegel tells me:

“What your readers are seeing is a routine update of the daily data activity on their devices—whether the iPhone or other handsets—to ensure billing accuracy. Customers are not charged for any data usage as part of this routine update.”

.. so nothing to see here.. but that explains where all my battery goes overnight.

 

[elistan]

You must be an engineer.

Thought about it, but I went for a computer science degree instead. And got an IT job after graduation. As a Windows Server admin, I've had to spend a lot of time doing trouble-shooting.



Now, I'd rather get into engineering but I'd rather not start over with a whole new career.

 

[packetjunkie]

This kind of ***** just pisses me off. I moved to the 200mb plans after seeing months of using at the 120mb level. In looking closer I see nightly 2am data dumps in my home (where I have WiFi enabled) of anywhere from 770kb to over 6mb! I never looked before because I was on an Unlimited Plan, but now that I'm on the 200mb plan for three lines, I'm watching more carefully.

This is clearly an Apple issue since the phone is choosing to send this data over 3G instead of WiFi. I'm amazed that MacRumors isnt posted about this on their main news page.

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2450738&start=225&tstart=0

16+ pages of this on Apple.Com and countless threads elsewhere, too.

 

[Krevnik]

This kind of ***** just pisses me off. I moved to the 200mb plans after seeing months of using at the 120mb level. In looking closer I see nightly 2am data dumps in my home (where I have WiFi enabled) of anywhere from 770kb to over 6mb! I never looked before because I was on an Unlimited Plan, but now that I'm on the 200mb plan for three lines, I'm watching more carefully.

This is clearly an Apple issue since the phone is choosing to send this data over 3G instead of WiFi. I'm amazed that MacRumors isnt posted about this on their main news page.

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2450738&start=225&tstart=0

16+ pages of this on Apple.Com and countless threads elsewhere, too.

So, we have 3-6 people in the thread that have done investigation, including an IT guy with a CS background and a software engineer with an EE/CS background which answers this pretty well, and you don't even bother to read any of it? Excellent!

 

[packetjunkie]

So, we have 3-6 people in the thread that have done investigation, including an IT guy with a CS background and a software engineer with an EE/CS background which answers this pretty well, and you don't even bother to read any of it? Excellent!

Wow. When you put it like that, well, gosh, you sure set me in my place. Good thing we have a few well degreed people here to fill in all the blanks for folks like me who manage folks like you.

I don't care what the data is - even if it is data summary being sent to AT&T - its being sent by the OS and the OS isnt picking WiFi to send that data. Even if we were to go as far as to say its some background app that Apple has allowed to be installed as part of the OS, again, I put the emphasis on Apple for quality control since it has final say over what goes into the build. That AT&T is sending this data to itself should indeed not count against users, but it is.

Doesn't take a degree to know that we've getting screwed here. If AT&T wants that data, it shouldn't be including it in a rated data plan.

 

[wvphysics]

As has been said, I am with the crowd that suggests its your cellular data usage being "dumped" all at once. Notice all these lists show only one or data time in the day of data usage. Everyone is focusing on the fact that it shows data usage when they aren't using it, but what abouit the fact that it is not showing data usage when you are using it. I use my phone all through out the day, but I only get 1 or two large usages showing up in a day.
If you want to check your usage against theirs, check it on your phone. Reset it at the beginning of the cycle, and then check it later in the month. If youre really worried about your phone using data when youre not using it, check it before and after every time you use 3G. If you don't see any mysterious usage between times that you use it, and the overall monthly usage is close, then youre just not realizing how much you use.

 

[IndustrialSpace]

......................

 

[alent1234]

i thought AT&T publicly said that all they are doing is summarizing the push notifications everyone gets into one line item instead of hundreds?

one time my wife lost her 3G for a few days and i saw that it would send a few kb of data in the middle of the night. proved that no one stole it. she found it in the car a few days later