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My employer pays for my iPhone. I hate cell phones. Always have. Always will. I hate constantly having a device with me and I hate always being reachable. And still, I think the iPhone is hands-down one of the most amazing gadgets I've ever used and I love it. There's almost nothing wrong with it. I've had so many phones or hand-held gadgets that had two or three glaring design problems or usability issues. None of that on the iPhone. When at home, I find myself reaching for the iPhone more often than for my laptop.

I would believe, at least in regard to the iPhone, that the satisfaction rating is pretty accurate if it's able to win me over.

Exactly what my longtime PC-using colleague said yesterday: he's just astounded by the near-perfectness of the iPhone in terms of UI integration and ease of use. Most amazingly, he said that, JUST AFTER 1 WEEK USING IT, the iPhone has sufficed for 85% of his computing needs. It's by far the most groundbreaking gadget he's ever had.

And there are still people that pretend the iPhone "killers" are better...:rolleyes:
 
lets not forget the most important statistic from this article:

99% of 3GS owners are satisfied.
87% of Pre owners said they were.

Not how I read it. 82% of 3GS owners were "very satisfied", only 45% of Pre owners. That is a disaster for Palm. Three times more Pre owners who are not "very satisfied".

The rest of the 99% / 87% are "somewhat satisfied". "Somewhat satisfied" is not the same as "satisfied". "Somewhat satisfied" isn't very good at all. "Somewhat satisfied" is not recommending the phone to anyone else.

But 1% of iPhone users are dissatisfied vs. 13% of Pre owners. 13 times as many Pre owners are not satisfied. Just good for Palm that they don't have a "money back" guarantee.
 
I had the original iPhone and iPhone 3g and now have moved on to the Palm Pre. I like (not love) the Pre. It'll be nice when we get applications for the phone. My bill is now $50/month compared to $80 (and I now get unlimited texts as opposed to 1500). Sprint Navigation blows away anything that was on the iPhone. Call quality is far superior on Sprint and I don't get dropped calls (haven't had one yet). I'm very glad I switched to Sprint.
 
Apple wins again, not that it's surprising. The Pre is a big hunk of junk. Most people I know would rather buy something that didn't cut corners during development such as the iTunes iPod emulation (illegal btw) and a tiny App "Store". Come on Palm! You can do better than that, remember the good ol' days a few years back when you were king/queen of smartphones and PDAs?

"Hunk of junk" is too strong. Most people might prefer an iPhone, but we iPhone USERS will be the ones who win if the Pre gets better and better. That's good for the whole industry. Right now, this first Pre does have certain good things. It's far behind the iPhone, but even it's only a promising start, that is still a good thing, not junk.

And to be fair, they HAD to cut corners: they were way behind and had to come up with something great out of nowhere, and fast. They managed to come up with something pretty good, given that.

I agree that the iTunes hack was not a good corner to cut, though (they should have used the officially-supported iTunes sync method that RIM uses).

As for the app selection... yes, that's one of the things that makes the Pre unacceptable to me for now. Most of what I do on my iPhone every day can't be done on a Pre. But over time, unlikely though it may seem, that might change and the Pre could have a selection to match the iPhone's. (The other things that kill the Pre for me: smaller screen, bulk and moving parts caused by the keyboard, lack of Internet and voice at the same time on Sprint, and poor performance--making gaming impractical.)
 
If I were Apple right now, I'd be very worried about the next hardware device Palm releases, which will fix many of the complaints.

You have a much higher degree of confidence in Palm's ability to iteratively improve their hardware than I do. I have a Treo from several years back. It's not significantly better than the previous-generation Treos, and today's Treos aren't significantly superior to it. In fact, major design flaws (not the least of which is its overall clunkiness, which it holds in common with the Pre) have not been addressed at all, and build quality has significantly decreased instead of increased, in half a dozen generations over the span of almost a decade.

So, no, I'm not confident at all that Palm's next-gen satisfaction will be any higher than their current-gen. They have a proven inability to smooth over the rough edges and provide anything more than slightly-lagging-technology's-advances improvements in a product line.

Contrast that to the (not revolutionary, but still significant and satisfaction-improving) changes to Apple's iPhone from debut to 3GS, and there's no doubt. Palm will have to step up their game here, significantly. The debut Pre didn't hit the ball out of the park, which it really needed to do given Palm's tendency to slide towards mediocrity over time.

Right now, the only hope for Palm is that they've solved the hardware and software iteration problems that they've had in the past, and Pre G2 will be a significant advance over Pre G1 (at least on par with Apple's iPhone advances in the same time span).

Hope springs eternal, but if I were to bet, I'd go with history over hope. Unfortunately, because the iPhone really needs some serious competition so that the rate of improvement continues to be this significant.

I can see your point, but it doesn't really make sense. When the original iPhone came out did people compare it to the Palm Treo 90? They didn't because the hardware and software have changed so much that it wouldn't be valid. So yes, I would say the pre is better than a two year old phone with and older processor, less ram, and an OS without third party apps. The only problem is if you walk in to a store you don't see any first gen iPhone's any more do you?

This is true, BUT the underlying assumption with "compare it to the first release!" calls is that it's somewhat easier for a phone line to improve between the first, second, and third iterations than it is for it to improve in the fourth and fifth revisions.

In other words, since Pre is new, the next two years will see significantly more advances in terms of satisfaction for it than for the iPhone. It has an advantage there.

Of course, as I just posted in length: I think Palm has a track record of not being able to advance their phone lines significantly, even when new, while Apple has a track record of constant and periodically revolutionary advancement over 6 or more generations (see iPod, see Mac). So, IMHO, the calls to compare satisfaction with the first-gen satisfaction of the iPhone are not terribly compelling.
 
What else would you expect?

What else would you expect? The answer is obvious, I know I'm sarcastic and I own an iPhone. I'm talking about the status quo but the future I'm not sure. Once the Pre-apps go full throttle I don't know if people would embrace it. But Apple is ahead of the game with iTunes. Palm should build their own media application for Pre to compete. IMO. After all competition and choices is what we wanted anyway. Right?
 
What's interesting is that the Pre only lags by 2% on ease of use, but also gets a 42% like the multi-tasking features, which the iPhone doesn't even have. This tells me that, while the Pre isn't the best device (yet), with a larger screen, higher resolution/better camera and some bug fixes, Web OS could easily surpass OS X.

If I were Apple right now, I'd be very worried about the next hardware device Palm releases, which will fix many of the complaints.

Right now, the Pre doesn't even figure as viable competition for the iPhone. The huge Pre rollout turned into something of a non-event. Palm has to essentially start over. It isn't about improving the Pre, it's about trying again. And trying to stay afloat financially while doing it.

When the widely-touted most promising competitor to the iPhone all but falls off the map after release, with slowing sales and performing below expectations as it is (with bleak estimates for the next year), it means that the other also-rans are even further behind. The only thing Apple needs to worry about is perfecting its own ecosystem, never mind paying mind to what everyone else is failing at.

The Pre is Palm's only real device right now, because it's cannibalizing sales of its non-pre devices.

Palm is finding out the hard way that their glitzy comeback won't be as easy as expected. Don't bother overestimating their chances. It might actually be perfectly reasonable this time to underestimate the competition, if it can be called "competition." So far it's been letdown after letdown outside of Cupertino.
 
because some Apple users will just say they love it under all and any circumstances. It can hit them over the head and they will love/defend it.
 
because some Apple users will just say they love it under all and any circumstances. It can hit them over the head and they will love/defend it.

Good point. I don't think people really like the iphone, they're just making it up :D

People who really like Apple products should not be believed when they claim to really like Apple products. Only people who dislike Apple products can be trusted to say they like them :p
 
oh no, you should trust everyone who says they really like an apple product - and why not? there is never a good reason not to... it is always sunshine and rainbows where we live :)
 
Seems odd to compare a 3rd Gen Phone to a 1st Gen Phone

I wonder how the iPhone 2G would compare to the Palm Pre . . . .

How is that relevant? The Pre is competing today with the 3GS. Palm had a product to compete against the 2G.... it was the Treo and it failed.

If you really have to make the argument about comparing comparable generations, then the 3GS should be compared against the Treo 700, which was actually Palm's 3rd generation smartphone (600, 650, 700). The Pre is their 4th attempt.

I just curious, do you know how many times the Pre's WebOS firmware has been updated since it was released?

If past history is any guide, Pre users will be lucky if they get 1 update to the OS and even luckier if that update doesn't brick their phone during the install process!

Palm's rollout of the software update with the Treo 700 was so disastrous that I just didn't install it at all. Wasn't worth the pain.
 
Attention FCC: The majority of iPhone users cite AT&T as a negative factor. Please investigate AT&T on EVERY possible account that you can think of.
Yes, plox!

In related news, the majority of Scientologists report a high level of satisfaction with their current religion compared to a survey of Christians who were not so positive. Clearly this shows that Scientology is the better religion. There can be no other possible reason for the high levels of satisfaction followers are reporting to our independent surveyors.

/smirk
 
I 100% agree.

And...

1)This is Palm's 1.0 at this...surely things will be enhanced, fixed, etc. on version 2.0.

2)Palm can't just copy the iPhone...it would likely be sued and surely ridiculed...so for a first stab at trying to "compete" (pricing, features, data plans, ease of use, etc) in a sense with the iPhone, it seems pretty good.

3)Without knowing more about the survey (wouldn't it be nice to actually see it too) it's possible the results are skewed for better or for worse for either vendor.

4)I do not own an iPhone and have done a tiny bit of research today on the Palm but I'm not sure who the Palm is aimed at. It's certainly not as recognizable as the iPhone...and all the marketing that Apple has done since Day 1 of the iPhone...so the users in this survey may have totally different reasons for buying the iPhone vs. the Palm. My gut tells me that a decent percentage of people bought the Palm because it has MS Exchange (read: corporate email) while we know iPhone has yet to even consider participating in the corporate email world.


My guess is that the 2 devices are pretty close in what they offer...but each is probably aimed at different users or at least their needs. For someone like me who does not need corporate email, I would probably consider both to meet my satisfaction...and understanding that the iPhone is several generations older than the Pre.

-Eric

1. They built there 1.0 with the knowledge of what was currently on the market meaning the iPhone and others. Apple built theres with the knowledge of what was out there, and I would say based on the time in which both were done. Apple's 1.0>Palm's 1.0 Palm had an innovative OS to base off of Apple didn't have anything near what they released at the time.

2. You'll find a respectable amount who claim they did copy the iPhone and its hard to argue in some respects, but they have been around for a while in the business this was not there first crack at competing just there best.

3. ---

4. I think they are targeted at roughly the same target group however due to Apple's iPod products having great success with the younger generation the iPhone caught on as being the 'Hip' 'In' Product which most likely helped the sales tremendously among the younger generation, and that could perhaps be perceived as the target audience, but Apple is trying to get into the business world as ell which they have shown. Pre's buyers seem to be more of the typical smart phone buyers at least form what I've seen.
 
And there are still people that pretend the iPhone "killers" are better...:rolleyes:

I *honestly* went into an apple store, and felt kinda disappointed holding an iPhone when I've been using a blackberry for a couple months now.

My opinion is that iPhone users are more vocal, chiefly because they view the phone as a *high end* product, thus leading them to become more vocal and flaunt it more.

This is my opinion however. At the end of the day, my phone makes calls.
 
I *honestly* went into an apple store, and felt kinda disappointed holding an iPhone when I've been using a blackberry for a couple months now.

My opinion is that iPhone users are more vocal, chiefly because they view the phone as a *high end* product, thus leading to become more vocal and flaunt it more.

This is my opinion however. At the end of the day, my phone makes calls.

A valid opinion, and the Blackberry line is a fine option to have out there. Especially for the many people with long-time habits typing on little physical buttons, which may not be perfect but ARE nice in some ways. And the Blackberry has some technical benefits like carrier choice that can't be denied. I recently advised a client to get a Blackberry and talked them out of an iPhone--an iPhone isn't a magic cure-all for every situation, and it currently forces you to get a data plan along with the voice.

Still, at the end of the day, my phone does so many things that it barely has time to make calls :p It's highly-usable pocketable computing, finally delivered after all these years. "Holding" an iPhone doesn't really convey the full user experience and selection of apps. There's really no reason to look for tricky psychological reasons why people love their iPhones. There truly are enough real reasons. (My latest: multiplayer gaming is getting pretty awesome, and I'm also starting to get into great sketch/art apps--even one with 3D sculpting. Plus, operating my Mac and Windows systems remotely from anywhere in the world is amazingly workable, thanks to pinch-zooming and multi-finger gestures.)
 
A valid opinion, and the Blackberry line is a fine option to have out there. Especially for the many people with long-time habits typing on little physical buttons, which may not be perfect but ARE nice in some ways. And the Blackberry has some technical benefits like carrier choice that can't be denied. I recently advised a client to get a Blackberry and talked them out of an iPhone--an iPhone isn't a magic cure-all for every situation, and it currently forces you to get a data plan along with the voice.

Still, at the end of the day, my phone does so many things that it barely has time to make calls :p It's highly-usable pocketable computing, finally delivered after all these years. "Holding" an iPhone doesn't really convey the full user experience and selection of apps. There's really no reason to look for tricky psychological reasons why people love their iPhones. There truly are enough real reasons. (My latest: multiplayer gaming is getting pretty awesome, and I'm also starting to get into great sketch/art apps--even one with 3D sculpting. Plus, operating my Mac and Windows systems remotely from anywhere in the world is amazingly workable, thanks to pinch-zooming and multi-finger gestures.)

I meant holding as in using. But, I understand where you are coming from. I owned a 1st gen. iPod Touch (and still do) before many of two of my friends got iPhones. I'm jumping ship when the Zune HD comes out.

The point I'm trying to make is that hanging around these forums really makes the world seem..... odd.
 
I meant holding as in using. But, I understand where you are coming from. I owned a 1st gen. iPod Touch (and still do) before many of two of my friends got iPhones. I'm jumping ship when the Zune HD comes out.

The point I'm trying to make is that hanging around these forums really makes the world seem..... odd.
Good for you. Don't let the your arse hit the door when you leave. Why did you get an iPod Touch in the first place if you don't have any apps or games for the thing? You do realize that the Zune will not run any iPhone/iPod Touch applications and games don't you?

PS. Have fun being locked into windows with your Zune.
 
Warning, fanboy deconstruction ahead.



The real problem with the Pre (and I think this is Sprint's failing) is that you can't use the phone and the Internet at the same time!


That's a CDMA problem, Verizon smartphones are unable to do that as well. If you were to criticise that aspect of the Pré, then criticise their choice of carrier.


To not be able to get an important email because I'm on the phone would really be a problem. To not be able to look up directions, or movie times, or the phone number of a restaurant, without hanging up? That would drive me crazy! I guess I'm fortunate that AT&T has good 3G coverage where I live.

I have the lowest minutes AT&T will offer me at 450 and even then I average at about half of that. Not being able to surf the web or check email while on the phone is a moot point for my uses as I can count the time I had to do that on one hand. Your milage may vary.

Absolutely no surprises, for sure...they're just stating the obvious. Whoever gets the iPhone is hooked; even the staunchiest of my PC-using colleagues have succumbed to the sheer superiority of Apple's PERFECT integration of hardware and software.

Blah blah blah.

Considering 1/3 of Pres get returned, is anyone shocked?

More like 2-3%.
http://www.precentral.net/palm-pre-return-rate-now-pegged-2-3-dueling-analysts

lets not forget the most important statistic from this article:



99% of 3GS owners are satisfied.
87% of Pre owners said they were.

that is just wow. especially with the larger sampling size of the 3GS owners.

link


Finally, SOMEONE mentioned the larger sampling size. The iPhone survey had 200 people. The Pré had 40. In laymans terms that means that an extremely dissatisfied Pré user could skew the results more than the equivalent iPhone one.

One other thing the Macrumors article didn't mention that every other article on it was how it compared to other surveys from other manufacturers.

http://brainstormtech.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2009/08/14/iphone-vs-pre-satisfaction-bakeoff/

Of note the Pré was ranked higher than any other Palm device every previously released and was only bested by RIM devices and Apple. When put in to the perspective it changes things a bit. It still doesn't match the iPhone in satisfaction rates but its certainly a lot closer than most other devices out there.

And the iPhone does have multitasking--and better, in some ways, than the Pre's. (Not in all ways--the Pre has some good points too.)

The iPhone has wonderful multitasking. 3rd party devs are simply unable to take advantage of it. :)


The iPhone multitasks the browser, the email app, downloads, the music player, the phone (of course), the voice recorder, calendar alerts, incoming instant messages (push) and more. (In other words, the most common functions of a smartphone.)

Your mileage may vary (again). The iPhone's OS has memory protection, so if another app is taking up too much memory it will close an idle one running in the background and Safari is usually the culprit. I don't know about you but almost every time I go back to Safari it has to reload the page it was previously on and then I have to wait for it. Multitasking indeed.

There's no notification system for email besides the badge on the icon. How am I supposed to know if its one worth stopping whatever I'm doing to read? With no multitasking except on native apps, waiting for stuff to (re)load hampers my productivity.

Sure the iPhone has multitasking, but often it is not the multitasking I would actually use. I use Twitter, IRC, Facbook, Flickr, Foursquare and Nextbus apps more then I ever use my phone app. I'd use other apps like Pandora more if I could run them in the ****ing background.



And all the apps that "do not multitask" will still multitask with those that do. Meanwhile, you don't have to manage memory and system resources manually, the way you have to on a Pre.

What?

I'd rather be able to manage my apps manually than let Apple tell me what I can run in the background or not. I'm fully aware that more apps utilising the cellular internet will start to severely limit battery life. The iPhone and other "smartphones" are becoming more like handheld computers that also happen to make phone calls. They should start acting like them.

Android handles multitasking a bit differently, while the Pré has apps you open running in the background all the time, many Android apps will run a daemon in the background vs the entire app. It has the same limitations of battery life if these apps are using the internet though. When I'm doing heavy browsing or other internet related tasks on my iPhone I start to see battery suffer as well. I am fully aware of what I'm doing however.


Best of all, push lets ALL apps be "multitasking" at the same time, for notifications at least, without using up RAM and CPU time. It's a great solution. So the iPhone's multitasking doesn't do everything the Pre's can do, but it DOES do a lot of very common things better.

Push is such a hack. It is better than nothing but when you see the notification systems of the two major competing platforms you start to wonder what the **** Apple was thinking. It falls under the philosophy of only being able to do one thing on the iPhone by taking up the entire screen and preventing you from doing anything else besides read it or dismiss it. Overall that's a notification problem and something that's prevalent in the OS itself, push just happens to utilise it.

In any case it is poor excuse for multitasking. Real life scenario, I was in the Facebook app one day and I get a push notification that someone mentioned my name in IRC. So I have to close Facebook, wait for IRC to open so I can talk to that person, get a notification that another mention was made in Facebook chat and then switch back. Frustration ensues.

Push is not real multitasking, not by a long shot. All push does is tell you when you should close your existing app since there's another one waiting for you. It only half fixes the problem.


"Hunk of junk" is too strong. Most people might prefer an iPhone, but we iPhone USERS will be the ones who win if the Pre gets better and better.

Pré users will win when the Pré gets better and better too.

And to be fair, they HAD to cut corners: they were way behind and had to come up with something great out of nowhere, and fast. They managed to come up with something pretty good, given that.

It is clearly a 1.0 product and I think people should start putting that into perspective. Pré 1.0 is good, though I think more people are waiting to see what 2.0 is going to be like if it revitalises Palm like they're hoping it will.


As for the app selection... yes, that's one of the things that makes the Pre unacceptable to me for now. Most of what I do on my iPhone every day can't be done on a Pre. But over time, unlikely though it may seem, that might change and the Pre could have a selection to match the iPhone's. (The other things that kill the Pre for me: smaller screen, bulk and moving parts caused by the keyboard, lack of Internet and voice at the same time on Sprint, and poor performance--making gaming impractical.)

What Palm is doing with their app store is very interesting, they're playing it very slow and are seemingly doing to to avoid Apple's massive blunder with their own App Store. I've been watching it very closely as I have been with the Android Market to see how they plan on succeeding where the App Store has failed. 6 months from now will be very interesting.
 
... Palm has come under fire in recent days in the wake of revelations that the Pre periodically sends what many consumers consider to be personal information, including GPS location and data on app usage, back to Palm's servers. Palm has defended its actions, noting that the company's privacy policy "includes very detailed language about potential scenarios in which we might use a customer's information, all toward a goal of offering a great user experience."

Oh ... you mean Apple and AT&T don't do this at all? Ever? :eek:
 
No surprise here.

While I'm not surprised the iPhone user satisfaction is so high, I'm surprised that the Palm Pre's user satisfaction is so low. I don't think I heard any negative reviews when it came out - the press generally thought it was a very good phone.
 
Although I like the iphone better than the pre, it is very clear that Palm worked hard for its latest phone. A couple of years back Palm were holding a smaller and smaller share of the ever shrinking PDA market, and it looked like it was going to be doomed to oblivion because of its inability to adapt (IMO).

And it isn't too bad a job with the pre either. I'd say good work to them. However, they're going to need to keep this up if they want to catch up to Apple.

Competition is good. It'll cause Apple to make better products. Without competitors products will stagnate, like IE6 in the windows world....
 
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