http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6oflC4qo8M&feature=related
He had full bars and it went down to nothing.
Looks like believing Uncle Steve's horsecrap disappointed you once again.
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iPhone 4 Antenna Issues and Ping Rank Among Top 'Tech Fails' for 2010
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6oflC4qo8M&feature=related
He had full bars and it went down to nothing.
Looks like believing Uncle Steve's horsecrap disappointed you once again.
Sorry, you misunderstand...
Ah, technical ignorance is bliss. And that is clearly shown when one refers to 'bars' and begins accusing one of being a fanboy. But you did hit the nail on the head as to why some say they have no problem and others clearly see the real hardware flaw.
So lets talk science. A phone registers a radio signal strength from roughly -113dBm to -40dBm (decibels referenced to 1 milliwatt of power). dBm is a LOG scale so the signal registered by a phone covers a range of 10^7.3 or 20,000,000:1, i.e. 20 million to 1. The bar display with iOS4.0 in June 2010 only displays 200:1 of the lower end of reception, when the 5th bar is first displayed. Big difference.
The 'bars' shown in that YouTube video (Jun 2010) shows 4 bars. Basically the bar system displays how poor your signal is...not how good it is.
So if your iOS 4.0 phone showed 5 bars, you did not know if it was just 200 times stronger than 'no signal' or 20 million times stronger. To cover the full range of 20 Million, one would need a display with 7 to 22 bars.
So Consumers missed the same point, as did the YouTube video. The YouTube video starts with 4 bars, which could be only 10x above 'no signal', and it will go down 22 db (200 times) with his hand over the gap. Consumers started with 2 bars.
The above explains why some users, in strong signal areas saw no problem...and others, even with 5 bars, could see the antenna flaw.
Later Apple came out with iOS 4.0.1 to remap the bars so that 5 bars only shows up when you are 10,000 stronger than 'no signal'. But once again, displaying 5 bars doesn't truly tell you how strong of a signal area you are in. This was meant to help the uneducated consumer...but they would have been smarter to allow the consumer to read in dBm...which they finally did in a later iOS update.
Being in a windowed office on the MIT campus in Cambridge/Boston, and you can easily have -50 dBm (kind of like having 12 bars on a linear scale), so too for most European cities and there is no antennagate. In the rural USA, you might get -95dBm or 3 bars...not a great signal...and you will have antennagate.
But the most interesting point is this: When one is truly in a strong signal area, say 5 bars and 'above', that is -70 to -40 dBm, you will see no loss of bars or data speeds from antennagate, AND you will not see the dBm drop by 22db either. I will not take the time to explain why, but there it is.
With the latest iOS, one can display bars or in dBm. It is a very worthwhile display.
So that is why so much fuss was generated by this very real flaw...many did not understand why some saw it with 5 bars and others did not. If they displayed in dB, they would have understood better. No fanboyism, no disappointment, just engineering science.
The engineering flaw from apple was that this tiny 1 mm spot was easily touched by the user.
Ah, technical ignorance is bliss. And that is clearly shown when one refers to 'bars' and begins accusing one of being a fanboy. But you did hit the nail on the head as to why some say they have no problem and others clearly see the real hardware flaw.
So lets talk science. A phone registers a radio signal strength from roughly -113dBm to -40dBm (decibels referenced to 1 milliwatt of power). dBm is a LOG scale so the signal registered by a phone covers a range of 10^7.3 or 20,000,000:1, i.e. 20 million to 1. The bar display with iOS4.0 in June 2010 only displays 200:1 of the lower end of reception, when the 5th bar is first displayed. Big difference.
The 'bars' shown in that YouTube video (Jun 2010) shows 4 bars. Basically the bar system displays how poor your signal is...not how good it is.
So if your iOS 4.0 phone showed 5 bars, you did not know if it was just 200 times stronger than 'no signal' or 20 million times stronger. To cover the full range of 20 Million, one would need a display with 7 to 22 bars.
So Consumers missed the same point, as did the YouTube video. The YouTube video starts with 4 bars, which could be only 10x above 'no signal', and it will go down 22 db (200 times) with his hand over the gap. Consumers started with 2 bars.
The above explains why some users, in strong signal areas saw no problem...and others, even with 5 bars, could see the antenna flaw.
Later Apple came out with iOS 4.0.1 to remap the bars so that 5 bars only shows up when you are 10,000 stronger than 'no signal'. But once again, displaying 5 bars doesn't truly tell you how strong of a signal area you are in. This was meant to help the uneducated consumer...but they would have been smarter to allow the consumer to read in dBm...which they finally did in a later iOS update.
Being in a windowed office on the MIT campus in Cambridge/Boston, and you can easily have -50 dBm (kind of like having 12 bars on a linear scale), so too for most European cities and there is no antennagate. In the rural USA, you might get -95dBm or 3 bars...not a great signal...and you will have antennagate.
But the most interesting point is this: When one is truly in a strong signal area, say 5 bars and 'above', that is -70 to -40 dBm, you will see no loss of bars or data speeds from antennagate, AND you will not see the dBm drop by 22db either. I will not take the time to explain why, but there it is.
With the latest iOS, one can display bars or in dBm. It is a very worthwhile display.
So that is why so much fuss was generated by this very real flaw...many did not understand why some saw it with 5 bars and others did not. If they displayed in dB, they would have understood better. No fanboyism, no disappointment, just engineering science.
The engineering flaw from apple was that this tiny 1 mm spot was easily touched by the user.
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Isn't that the technical explanation for what happens if you cover the antenna by gripping the device? What I want someone to explain is how touching just the black strip on the left hand side of the device can also kill the signal/data connection. I've just tried it myself by turning off wifi and loading a website; the page starts to load just fine, but as soon as I touch the black line with the end of my finger, it totally stops and slows to a crawl. I'm otherwise not touching the device, so there shouldn't be any attenuation issues, and I'm certainly not cupping or gripping the device. So what is it about this single black seam that has such a devasting affect on the data connection (whether touched deliberately or by mistake)?
Well, your observation also hit the 'nail on its head'. That left side black line is the sore point. People doing the 'death grip' are only bridging the top and bottom of the black line with their palm. That is why people who hold the IP4 in their right hand don't replicate the antennagate problem (assuming their pinky or finger doesn't bridge the left gap). Their are YouTube videos that show that too. It also explains the penny and metal strip videos.
You can touch the metal antenna anywhere you wish, and it will have no negative effect on signal or data speeds. It is only that 1mm gap on the left. this is another misconception and dispute among people, and explains why some IP4 'naked' users have no problems.
(one caveat. If you hold the metal band until your skin turns white...well you are compressing your skin, increasing the skin/water density close to the metal, and will see a small antennuation...but nothing like antennagate. This is true of all phones).
Some theorize that that spot bridges the wi-fi and 3G antennas. But the black line at the top, by the earphone jack should do the same thing...but it does not. Nor does the black line at the right hand side (it is just a dummy...the metal is one piece underneath...an apple cosemetic thing for symmetry).
Rather, the left black line is a sensitive 'feed point' for a 5 band antenna and is overly sensitive. The 'death grip' is a mistake...people didn't realize that the 1 mm gap is the real sensitive point.
Bottom line: try it yourself. Touch or hold the metal band of the phone as you like...just don't touch that 1mm gap and you will be fine. In fact, place a finger of one hand just above and another finger of the same hand just below that gap...and you will be fine. Just don't bridge it...in a less than solid 5 bar region.
Sort of like the IP4 camera lens...don't put your finger over the lens if you want to take a picture. Fortunately, you get instant feed back when you do that. With the phone...the bars are not a good visual feedback...reading in dBm is better.
It's not a attenuation issue like Apple wants everyone to believe is an issue with all phones. It's an antenna detuning issue. Which is unique to the iPhone 4, since most modern phones do not have an antenna that can be directly touched. He's a definition of detuning:
And here's a definition of attenuation, which is not the true issue:
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Thanks for taking the time to write and explain everything. (I'm saying this sincerely.) I now understand much better than before.
It is a detuning issue at the one spot, the 1mm black band on the lower left side. Detuning or attenuation by absorption, the result is loss in rf signal.
Remarkably, you can touch the entire rest of the metal band antenna without any negative results, as was the original design plan.
The iP4 antenna does actually pull in more RF than the 3GS/3G antenna. Many have found that to be the case.
Basically a big wall of defense attempts. Under practical use, assuming you're not living next to an AT&T tower, you will always lose signal when touching the seam. Your science means crap when the max signal you'll ever get under practical use is less than excellent.
Best shot? What is this, a game? Those conditions you speak of where you'd get "7 bars" are non-existent. Try living in a city where the best you'd get is 3 or 4 bars. I live 3 kilometers away from a tower and I lose signal completely if I bridge the gap. It takes a few minutes for the phone's indicators to show it, but if you're running a speed test, the signal is lost pretty much instantly. Your conditions for making the phone not completely lose data connectivity are not realistic. Best shot? I'm looking at this from the eyes of a consumer, not for somebody who lives under an AT&T tower. You're basically saying "oh it's a non-issue if you live in a perfect signal area." Except there's no such area. Everyone loses signal. Frankly, your entire argument is unrealistic.
You're somewhat right in that it doesn't lose the signal fully, but like I said, being realistic, where the maximum signal you'd get is 3-4 bars, you will always lose connectivity completely. Don't try to hide how big of an issue this is. It's more than worthy to be put up on one of the worst tech fails of 2010, if not the entire decade.
I'm still quite annoyed by your "that's your best shot LOL" crap. What are you, 15? Grow up, man.
Although browsing through your post history, I've just realized who I'm arguing with. Somebody in denial.
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Actually my reply was the best that I could think of to your sarcastic comments (oh, and I saw your other post, before you edited...that was even more sarcastic). How would you respond to someone who is in attack mode?
It is almost as if you didn't read my post. Read it again; I'm not in denial, and I agree with you that:
1)If you have only 3-4 bars of signal, you will have a problem when touching the seam.
2) Your YouTube video started with only 4 bars (not full bars that you said); so there is a problem. The video states that in plain written english. It was made in June, with iOS 4.0
3) The consumers video started with only 2 bars (from what I can tell); so there is a problem.
4) I have the same problems when I have less than 5 bars (on the new scale)
Read all the posts in this thread; people still argue about whether there is a problem or not. Of course there is a problem but there is an logical explanation for that without getting into the 'he said, she said' type of argument. Read my post, there is no denial that apple made a mistake.
Getting 5 bars is not hard to find as you say or uncommon to find either. And if you read in dBm, you would be surprised how strong good signals can be. If you live in a city with only 3-4 bars...that is a poor signal. What city do you live in where the closet tower is almost 2 miles away (3 kilometers)? And, btw, I live in a city, Boston. Of course the signal varies. But some people work and live not 'under a tower' but in strong signal areas and that is why they respond the way that they do.
You seem to be in denial that there is an logical explaination to the different antenna reporting problems by other people...and my 'science' has nothing whatsoever to do with denial, fanboyism, or love of mr. jobs. It simply explains what is happening, without removing fault from Apple's mistake or saying everything is 'okay'.
I have nothing more to say to you on this here. But I'm guessing that you will want the last word...so go ahead...vent and have a Happy New Year.
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I am going to drop the Iphone
I am useing the blackberry because I need a phone that work, I use the iphone because I like it,
but I lost my job and cant keep both, yesterday I did the final test drove around and compaired the reception, every place that the iphone lost conection the blackberry had good 3G,
I don't know if it is ATT or the iphone the only thing I am going to do is to swicth sim(is I have the tool)
if the iphone stiil loose conection I will sell it and buy an ipod tuch.
Don't bother with viewfly. He's in denial. Fact of the matter is, the iPhone 4 sucks as a phone. Your Blackberry will definitely perform better when it comes to actually making calls.
LOL, I did a little browsing of your posts too, my friend. I see where you are coming from now. Nearly every post accuses someone of being a fanboy. And you never like being proved wrong. I understand the kilometer scale now too. Your living in/near Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada...pretty far from ATT, eh?
Yet, your past posts are very interesting...apparently you don't find getting good signal too difficult. And the iPhone doesn't suck for you. Now if you just actually look at the true dBm signal you would understand my meaning, which is is no way denying the IP4 phone problem...
https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=10592156&#post10592156
kre62 said:
mKTank said:
And from Dec 7, 2010
https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=11540767&#post11540767
mKTank said:
So man, you are really full of it.
Oh, back so soon? What was that about getting the last word in?
Had a bumper on it from day one and it's an excellent experience if you have a case on. Also, I never said I lived near AT&T. I was using it as an example since most people here live in America. Rogers gives better reception than AT&T. Anyway, since then, I grew tired of the case and tried using it naked, and the hellish antenna problem became quite apparent. I went through a week of testing it and came to a few realizations.
First, this reality distortion field is really quite existent. You saw how I spewed utter crap despite actually having a less than pleasant experience with the naked phone. Hell, I didn't even have a 4 when I made that first post. I was just going by what Stevie told me. Anyway, since then I've switched to a Focus but that's not relevant.
Second, this bullcrap that Stevie kept saying like how all phones have this? Utter crap. If you grip a phone with both hands and get into the fetal position, you might lose a bar or two. But all the iPhone 4 needs is a finger and it's bye bye signal. I had the antenna problem even when I had five bars. I do admit that the 4's antenna gives better reception. But that's unless you hold the phone with your left hand, which is just inexcusable for a company that's supposed to provide premium devices.
Third, which is irrelevant but since we're discussing my post history, I might as well contribute: I couldn't be happier to leave the iTunes ecosystem, where taking things off your devices is impossible, where syncing multiple computers is impossible, where if your computer dies and you setting up your device with a new computer is impossible, and where crashes, freezes, and overall lack of optimization out the ass is everywhere. As I have a Focus, I started using the Zune software. A breath of fresh air. Maybe iTunes runs decently on Macs, but it still has those same limitations whereas Zune software does not.
Anyway, since you seemed interested enough to read my history, I thought I'd give you an update on where exactly I stand. The only conflict here is that you seem to think that excellent signal conditions (which I argue are incredibly hard to find (5 bars doesn't always mean full signal. Didn't you say that?)) will make the iPhone 4 work despite bridging the antenna, whereas I lose signal whenever I bridge it regardless of the signal. I even went near the closest tower and ran a speed test whilst touching the seam. It went dead. This is why I have found it hard to believe that there might be an even better reception, let alone in the middle of the city with buildings surrounding you. Yeah, not everyone lives out on the countryside. Pretty creepy though, you looking up my location and such.
I think they missed a Top Fail for 2010...
Researchers were able to put together just a few off-the-shelf parts and demonstrate the ability to listen in on any GSM phone conversation or read their texts.
So much for GSM privacy.
Researchers were able to put together just a few off-the-shelf parts and demonstrate the ability to listen in on any GSM phone conversation or read their texts.
So much for GSM privacy.
Well, I thought it was oddball that you looked up my history...so I thought to try it also. You posted your location in one thread. Not hard to figure out.
So from my home in Boston, which has the same signal quality as my office at work, here is a video I made. From my observation and others, the iOS 4.1 map has 5 Bars starting at -78dBm and goes up to -40dBm.
At 4 bars or -80 dBm and worse (to -110 dB), touching the 'seam' or gap will kill my data speed and drop the signal by 22 dB at least...as everyone else has found.
Some people do have good signal, esp. in cities and overseas like europe. But to be safe, a case is highly recommended.
This video shows NO antenna-gate at 5 Bars ( at -54 and -68 dBm). I was very surprised when I first noticed this. I expected to always see a 22 dB drop...but in the higher signal areas...it appears that the effect is not there. The de tuning of the antenna at the gap seems to have little influence.
I think this is why some insist they see no problems...but others are plagued by them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf5-sMP2ed0
P.S. One does not need to Jailbreak to see the signal in dBm...just place it in field test mode...which was restored in the latest iOS.
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what i don't get is: how Apple failed in this basic knowledge, if you tuch an antena you going to have problems, NO RF engineers?
How about holding it in your hand instead of the finger thing? From the video it looked like you had your finger sort of on the edge of the phone instead of completely covering the seam.
Anyway, either they fix it on the next iPhone or this antenna issue is going to bring Apple down.
OMG! With sales of the new iPhone 4 limited to only 14.1 million units in their first quarter on sale (at the height of Antennagate), a mere 91% increase in sales from the previous year - - Apple is going straight down the toilet!!!
As my daughter would say, OMG! Anyone who has looked at the IP4 antenna thing knows that it only takes one finger on the gap to kill the signal. Plenty of YouTube videos showing that. No need for the unnatural 'death grip'. Bridge the 'seam' anyway you like...the result occurs.
Believe me, the same finger in a 1- 4 bar signal will stop the data feed in it's track. Do I need to make a video of that too? I'll leave to the student to replicate.
Yes, the iP4 had the tech failure of 2010, but also had the greatest sales of any single smartphone in 2010! A great phone, even as a phone.
I would say that the biggest Apple failure is making products (ipads, ipods, iPhones) that are so slippery in the hand...that one needs to buy a case to get a good grip. I'd prefer that they 'rubberize' the whole back and sides so it doesn't slip out of my hand. So I normally need a case anyways...which is what probably saved the IP4 this time around with the antenna issue.
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