Haha that's true, I guess I'm also looking at it from an engineering perspective, where 100% increase seems really bad regardless of how small the base number is.
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iPhone 4 may be dropping as many as 100% more calls than iPhone 3GS
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Haha that's true, I guess I'm also looking at it from an engineering perspective, where 100% increase seems really bad regardless of how small the base number is.
You're focusing more on how you can distort the statistics actually. And you're not my friend.
It depends on how the message is delivered actually.
If i were to slip a note on his desk saying OUR PRODUCT DROPS AS MANY AS 100% MORE CALLS THAN THE PREVIOUS PRODUCT, then more likely than not, he will have a bowel movement in his pants, without even waiting for the explanation as to how I came to that conclusion, and how I don't even have hard data to verify my claim.
If however, I said "hey boss, some one told me that the current phone drops less than 1% more calls than the previous model, but because I want to get your attention, I'm gonna round that to a whole percent. And since 1 + 1 =2, out of every 100 calls, I'm just gonna call that a 100% increase...." he'd probably look at me like I'm crazy.
I never cared about the dropped calls as it was easy to hold it in the other hand. What I cared about with the cellular data slowing and stopping because I can't easily hold it in my other hand. This wasn't talked about and that is why I returned my phone.
The ambiguity lies in the phrase '1% more calls than the previous model', which can be taken to mean either (intended) '1% more of all calls' or (semantically) '1% more than the previous phone's drop rate'. The truth of the situation is that the drop rate is 100% higher than the previous phone (1 in 100 -> 2 in 100 = +100% increase) but the absolute increase in dropped calls is 1% (where 100% = all calls dropped).
Thank you for re-phrasing what I've been trying to say all along: this entire thread is about ambiguity, and at least one person's attempt to sensationalize based upon that ambiguity.
You say sensationalize, I say inform.
Say what you will, my intentions were pure and simple: to debunk the claim that the problem the iPhone 4 is suffering from is just like other smartphones.
Twisting and re-phrasing, to the bitter end.
Interesting, because if that was your intention, you'd be comparing dropped calls against other smartphone models, like the Droid line and those manufactured by Samsung and HTC. But instead you latched on to the 100% thing and aren't letting go.
So you haven't even met your stated intention. Now what?
Then can you post some data to support your claim? How about some dropped call data from other smart phones?
Hey, we don't even know what the drop rate for the iPhones is. FWIW, it could have gone from 99% to 100%.
Exactly, we don't know that and we don't know about other smart phones. So how is he gonna make his point?
Twisting and re-phrasing, to the bitter end.
Interesting, because if that was your intention, you'd be comparing dropped calls against other smartphone models, like the Droid line and those manufactured by Samsung and HTC. But instead you latched on to the 100% thing and aren't letting go.
So you haven't even met your stated intention. Now what?
It was not necessary to compare to other smartphones because it's already been established that the 3GS suffers from attenuation similar to other smartphones. Thus it was sufficient to demonstrate that the iPhone 4 differs from the 3GS to prove that it has a unique problem.
Actually, you have no proof/facts of anything otherwise. You have the statistics for dropped calls on AT&T for all cell phones. Not smartphones.
Smartphones on average may drop as many as 3% of all calls (I don't know!). I'm just saying that this problem excists with other smartphones as well..
What I personally take with me after seeing the press conference is that there is an increased problem. It's affecting a very small group of people, compared to the number of people buying the product. The affect for those people suffering from dropped calls may be much worse - and Apple is in that case offering free cases since those same people said that makes the problem go away, or return the phone and get all your money back if you still don't like the product - but for the majority of users the reception will be better.
I have ordered an iPhone 4 and is waiting for it to be shipped. I was watching the press conference. I make maybe 150 calls a month on average. No matter how many calls were dropped on my current phone, iPhone 3Gs (I don't know how many they are, it happens so rarely!) - I would statisticly dropp 1.5 more calls a month with my new iPhone 4. Or 3 more calls every 2 months, if you want. For me, that's not a problem.
I think I'm coming off a little defensive of Apple and I just want to say that I'm not an Apple apologist by any means. I just really think that Steve used the numbers the best way he could have. Sure he could have said that the 4 drops twice as many calls as the 3GS (assuming 1 to 2). But why would he do that? That would be stupid. I think he explained it in the most usable and understandable way.
I wish someone would have asked him yesterday, and forgive me if they did:
If you had discovered this issue 6 months ago would you still have gone to market with this antenna design?
I wish someone would have asked him yesterday, and forgive me if they did:
If you had discovered this issue 6 months ago would you still have gone to market with this antenna design?
Just tell me why he would lie. What makes you such a cynic. If this was Microsoft I cold understand but I think your way off target here and like everyone else just making the numbers work the way you want them too.
Based on Jobs reputation I would take his word over yours any day.
Based on Jobs reputation I would take his word over yours any day.
Someone did ask something like that and he said that those articles that claim they knew of the problem were lies. So he's pretty much saying Apple had no idea the problem is as serious as it is.
Thanks for your post. It seems like ever since someone discovered you could make the bars go down by touching the phone a certain way for some iPhone 4s (I cant get it to do it, no matter what location Im at), these forums have been overrun by trolls or members who assume if they have the problem, everyone does.
Anyone can see that the OP only meant to inflame the issue, by the way he titled his thread. Its just part of the trend lately where any reasonable discussions on these forums are rare. Jobs presents data, but hes called a liar. When anyone is asked to provide any data to refute Apple, online unscientific and suspect polls are used or suggestions are given that massive amounts of people are lining up to return iPhone 4s (yet, there is no media coverage of this).
Ive never seen the forums this overrun by trolls. The mods do nothing, or almost nothing. I almost think they like the forums this way, since it gets more hits with all the rancor. Because of that, its just not as enjoyable a forum to visit any more. Its also almost impossible to find posts from people who actually need help with an issue, which is mainly why Im here.
Again, thanks for your post. We need more posts like that from both sides of this issue, but I doubt that will happen.
Yea but I mean if they did know about it would they still have moved forward. Since their position now is that its not that big of a deal and other phones do it, would they have thought the same way if they discovered it at a time when they could have changed the design.
And the 99% might not even be the phone's fault. The number would only be useful in comparison to other phones on the same network.
Where did you get that information? Please cite the numerical data that suggests this. You're stating things as fact again, and not showing your evidence to back it up. You seem to be so well versed in statistics and yet not doing what every math expert demands: show your work.
Are you kidding? You're defending the Jobs presentation, which was all about how all smartphones suffer attenuation. Now OP says the 3GS suffers attenuation too, and you want him to cite this fact?