Pixel inversion (pixel walk)! That actually sounds a lot like the issue I experienced on the iPhones (yes on ALL iPhones on my local Apple Store ;-)). Thank you a lot for the correct terminology!
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iPhone 5/5s Display Interlacing: New Image
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Well at least at my local Apple Store they acknowledged it. It's just a small step, but maybe a beginning.
In my Apple Care reports is written "lines" and "flickering" and the Genius confirmed he observed the issue.
In my Apple Care reports is written "lines" and "flickering" and the Genius confirmed he observed the issue.
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Thank you, you linked the only meaningful page, and its explanation, which i report here:
One of the eleven boxes below may flicker slightly. The a/b variants are the same, except that they depend on the position of your browser window. Strong flicker indicates that the voltages in the monitor are misadjusted. Unfortunately, this is probably not something you can adjust by yourself. In practical situations, a visible flicker here means that plain colors show "pixel walk" when watched from close-by.
There is no issue with iPhone displays, there just could be some defective units with a wrong voltage applied, and this is NOT shown by a barely noticeable flickering like someone is posting here, but by a STRONG FLICKERING.
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Most probably NONE OF THEM were showing the issue, otherwise a crowd of customers would have complained with the Store Manager.
It was you ....
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Yes, sure, I'm pretty sure the Store Manager returned all the iPhones they had on display, because you pointed out they all were defective.
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But did you read the article linked ?!?
It is telling you that is perfectly normal a flickering with those test images ....
English isn't my native language, but I think you have bigger problem than me to understand it
In order to prevent damage, LCD displays quickly alternate the voltage between positive and negative for each pixel, which is called 'polarity inversion'. Ideally, the rapid polarity inversion wouldn't be noticeable because every pixel has the same brightness whether it a positive or a negative voltage is applied. However, in practice, there is a small difference, which means that every pixel flickers at about 30 hertz.
Oh the allmighty Max(IT) as spoken again. He not just has the super vision so only his eyes know which issues exist and which don't he is also all knowing.
Just give me a break. Assuming that nobody else complained about the screens is just speaking without having any idea, like you always did. I don't hang out 24/7 at the Apple Store so I'm sorry that I don't know if and how many people already complained the screens. Actually I didn't care about that neither since I was busy with fixing my phone. Maybe nobody else comlained them maybe a lot of people already complained them, no one here knows that. At least I just write about things I saw and observed personally. But oh I'm sorry I forgot the all knowing superbrain of Max(IT) knows that nobody else complained... *jawn*
Just in case you meant me with somebody wrote that the flickering is barly noticeable. I said the LINES on daily use (NOT the flickering) is subtle on some of the phones. That you still don't realize that the issue on daily use is NOT flickering as I mentioned like 100 times by now is again proof you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
You are reacting like somebody is talking about your baby and you can't accept that somebody is animadverting it... It's getting just ridiculous by now. Why don't you just go to the thread where people complain about bad battery life, of clicking noise of the screen etc. and tell these people how the issue doesn't exist and bla bla bla.
Edit: Well again I accept I don't know the correct English word for the issue. Different people call it differently on this thread, I actually didn't invent any of these words. I know what I see, I know that EVERY person I showed it to personally so far saw the problem. I tried to explain it the best way I can, how is it really called, interlaced/scan lines/pixel walk? I don't know... People who actually have the same issue know exactely what I (and the other people here, don't forget it wasn't me who started this topic or the others on this forum which started over a year ago!) am talking about, so the name isn't really important. By now you were they only one who actually insists on the name. I really don't know what your problem is that you just can't accept that some people are actually seeing an issue on MANY iPhones out there, just because you can't see it.
Just give me a break. Assuming that nobody else complained about the screens is just speaking without having any idea, like you always did. I don't hang out 24/7 at the Apple Store so I'm sorry that I don't know if and how many people already complained the screens. Actually I didn't care about that neither since I was busy with fixing my phone. Maybe nobody else comlained them maybe a lot of people already complained them, no one here knows that. At least I just write about things I saw and observed personally. But oh I'm sorry I forgot the all knowing superbrain of Max(IT) knows that nobody else complained... *jawn*
Just in case you meant me with somebody wrote that the flickering is barly noticeable. I said the LINES on daily use (NOT the flickering) is subtle on some of the phones. That you still don't realize that the issue on daily use is NOT flickering as I mentioned like 100 times by now is again proof you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
You are reacting like somebody is talking about your baby and you can't accept that somebody is animadverting it... It's getting just ridiculous by now. Why don't you just go to the thread where people complain about bad battery life, of clicking noise of the screen etc. and tell these people how the issue doesn't exist and bla bla bla.
Edit: Well again I accept I don't know the correct English word for the issue. Different people call it differently on this thread, I actually didn't invent any of these words. I know what I see, I know that EVERY person I showed it to personally so far saw the problem. I tried to explain it the best way I can, how is it really called, interlaced/scan lines/pixel walk? I don't know... People who actually have the same issue know exactely what I (and the other people here, don't forget it wasn't me who started this topic or the others on this forum which started over a year ago!) am talking about, so the name isn't really important. By now you were they only one who actually insists on the name. I really don't know what your problem is that you just can't accept that some people are actually seeing an issue on MANY iPhones out there, just because you can't see it.
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The one with the super vision should be you, since you are discovering issues an entire Store didn't see....
You were the first to notice it at the Store ....
I know now that you didn't read the article ...
You are still speaking about an "issue" while the flickering is just A BEHAVIOR on any LCD panel, more or less noticeable from unit to unit.
I say again, I'm not denying that there are some units with a flickering screen (a wrong voltage could do that). I'm just saying that is not a widespread problem but something affecting very "sensible" and picky people, and some unlucky guys.
Speaking about my baby ? Noo, nothing personal. I just don't like false information to be spread on the forum.
I'm not smarter than you. 30 Hz is not 300 Hz. It's visible if you look at it. Very noticeable in some situations (like the test page). Thread like this are pointing people on the wrong direction.
Nope, no super vision here. But the ISSUE (yes I call it issue since I'm not an English spoken person and therefore my vocabulary maybe isn't always perfect, I'm really sorry about that. It's again just ridiculous that you only focus on single words and not on what the person is trying to say. But just by the way on my Genius Bar paper it says "issue: Lines/Flickering". So if even Apple refers to it as an issue the word can't be that wrong!) is visible also without super vision. Just by the way, it was you who claimed you for sure could see it if it existed since you have perfect vision.
The entire store didn't see it? Again, please explain it to me how you know that? Neither you neither me knows if and how many people saw and complained it. I at least say that honestly, you just talk for talking. But since you know that in this store all phones work properly and nobody else complained the phones you for sure also know which Apple Store I'm talking about. So please tell me which store we are talking about.
I was the first one who saw it at a store? Maybe yes, maybe no, I'm actually to lazy right now to go through all posts to check that. But even if I were, what would that change? You still haven't seen any of these phones in this store, so again you are just talking for talking without knowing what we are talking about.
And again you are talking about flickering, so i know you haven't read any of my posts carefully. The phone only flickers with the test image. During normal use, no flickering at all, really, I promise! BUT during normal use there are visible black lines which appear/disapper but are visble to the eye (also without supervision!) on some phones it looks horrible and some phones it's very subtile and on some phones there are no lines at all. The thing is these black lines seem to be only one pixel thick, so when showing the test image which has one line of black pixels and one grey and so on, THIS causes the flickering! But only with the test image (really!), but the black pixel LINES, still visible without test image.
Look, I have nothing personal against you, but just to clear out some facts: There are different people all over the world experiencing the same issue (sorry for the word!). There are other threads in this forum about the same issue which have many many pages and started a long time ago, so this issue isn't anything new. It just seems to some people that it affects more iPhone 5S than it did iPhone 5. On this forum people are writing about their personal experiences. Some checked a few phones, some checked many phones. Some saw many affected phones, some just a few, some didn't see any affected phones at all. You say the phones you saw haven't this issue at all. Nobody here doubted that you haven't seen it on your phones. You are the only one here who is telling people that what THEY saw is wrong. And you do that without having seen any one the phones we are talking about. You haven't seen any of my phones neither any of the phones in my local Apple Store, neither any of the phones in the local Apple Store of samven582 for example. But still you are saying that all these phones have no lines at all. So I'm sorry to say this, but the only one here who is spreading false information is you, since you are the only one talking about the actual condition of phones which you didn't have in your own hands.
The entire store didn't see it? Again, please explain it to me how you know that? Neither you neither me knows if and how many people saw and complained it. I at least say that honestly, you just talk for talking. But since you know that in this store all phones work properly and nobody else complained the phones you for sure also know which Apple Store I'm talking about. So please tell me which store we are talking about.
I was the first one who saw it at a store? Maybe yes, maybe no, I'm actually to lazy right now to go through all posts to check that. But even if I were, what would that change? You still haven't seen any of these phones in this store, so again you are just talking for talking without knowing what we are talking about.
And again you are talking about flickering, so i know you haven't read any of my posts carefully. The phone only flickers with the test image. During normal use, no flickering at all, really, I promise! BUT during normal use there are visible black lines which appear/disapper but are visble to the eye (also without supervision!) on some phones it looks horrible and some phones it's very subtile and on some phones there are no lines at all. The thing is these black lines seem to be only one pixel thick, so when showing the test image which has one line of black pixels and one grey and so on, THIS causes the flickering! But only with the test image (really!), but the black pixel LINES, still visible without test image.
Look, I have nothing personal against you, but just to clear out some facts: There are different people all over the world experiencing the same issue (sorry for the word!). There are other threads in this forum about the same issue which have many many pages and started a long time ago, so this issue isn't anything new. It just seems to some people that it affects more iPhone 5S than it did iPhone 5. On this forum people are writing about their personal experiences. Some checked a few phones, some checked many phones. Some saw many affected phones, some just a few, some didn't see any affected phones at all. You say the phones you saw haven't this issue at all. Nobody here doubted that you haven't seen it on your phones. You are the only one here who is telling people that what THEY saw is wrong. And you do that without having seen any one the phones we are talking about. You haven't seen any of my phones neither any of the phones in my local Apple Store, neither any of the phones in the local Apple Store of samven582 for example. But still you are saying that all these phones have no lines at all. So I'm sorry to say this, but the only one here who is spreading false information is you, since you are the only one talking about the actual condition of phones which you didn't have in your own hands.
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What I'm saying is just this isn't a widespread problem AND it's almost impossible that all the iPhones in the Apple Store were affected.
Nothing more.
I didn't say nothing about your iPhone. Maybe it was defective, I can't know.
I'm just saying that every single LCD panel technically "flickers" in a way, because it is the way it works. Some more than others. And some guys are more sensible to this while others don't bother.
But speak about a widespread issue is false information on a public forum. I'm sure it's not your case, but you know about astroturfer, right ?
Nothing more.
I didn't say nothing about your iPhone. Maybe it was defective, I can't know.
I'm just saying that every single LCD panel technically "flickers" in a way, because it is the way it works. Some more than others. And some guys are more sensible to this while others don't bother.
But speak about a widespread issue is false information on a public forum. I'm sure it's not your case, but you know about astroturfer, right ?
Antennagate was a real issue. But as far as I know there weren't millions of returns though, so most people just accepeted the issue and lived with it (even I did). That doesn't mean the issue wasn't real or widespread.
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Well just visit me and we go my local Apple Store together. After that we talk about it again, before that it makes no sense.
Edit: About you kind of accusing me (in a subtile way) of astroturfing. No, I didn't know about this word, I actually had to google it. But I can calm you down, I'm actually a excellent customer of Apple products. I buy every year a new iPhone and new iPad and I own 4 Mac computers. I brought all my family, my girlfriend and a lot of my friends to Apple. I actually think generally Apple makes some of the best products. But just because I like Apple doesn't mean I can't complain about something if they did something wrong.
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Every iPhone 5c that I saw at my local Apple store have this problem and 5 out of 6 iPhone 5s that were displayed also had it.
For me "antennagate" was a highly exaggerated issue, pumped up by Gizmodo for a personal war against Apple.
By the way, admitting it was a real issue (and it wasn't in my iPhone 4, not more than in any other phone), Apple addressed the issue with a public conference, run by Steve Jobs himself after two months from the launch.
Did you see Tim Cook speak about a flickering iPhone 5S recently ?
I can visit the two near to my house ... and many other all over Europe (I travel a lot thanks to my job).
Why they have to be different from your ? Did Apple put all the defective iPhones in the Apple Store near to you ? How unlucky you are
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You, and say again YOU, saw the "problem" because all the LCD "flicker" at 30 Hz and you were looking for a problem ....
If you search for it you can see this behavior in pretty much every single LCD display out there ....
For me "antennagate" was a highly exaggerated issue, pumped up by Gizmodo for a personal war against Apple.
By the way, admitting it was a real issue (and it wasn't in my iPhone 4, not more than in any other phone), Apple addressed the issue with a public conference, run by Steve Jobs himself after two months from the launch.
Did you see Tim Cook speak about a flickering iPhone 5S recently ?
I can visit the two near to my house ... and many other all over Europe (I travel a lot thanks to my job).
Why they have to be different from your ? Did Apple put all the defective iPhones in the Apple Store near to you ? How unlucky you are
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You, and say again YOU, saw the "problem" because all the LCD "flicker" at 30 Hz and you were looking for a problem ....
If you search for it you can see this behavior in pretty much every single LCD display out there ....
My iPhone 4 doesn't have this issue at all. Neither does my LCD monitor or my iPad mini
It's just less visible, but it has the same behavior because it's LCD .... It MUST flickers ....
Nope no flickering/pixel inversion/pixel walk at all on my iPhone 4, iPad mini or my monitor.
I just tested this on 5 computers with different screens from different manufacturers. ALL had some walk to some degree.
It's like testing for light leakage on an LCD TV by showing a black image at full brightness. It's a test which is designed to show an inherent limitation of the underlying technology.
You can return 5 phones, you can return 100. They have the same inherent limitations underneath. Surely you value your time more than staring at a phone screen!
It's like testing for light leakage on an LCD TV by showing a black image at full brightness. It's a test which is designed to show an inherent limitation of the underlying technology.
You can return 5 phones, you can return 100. They have the same inherent limitations underneath. Surely you value your time more than staring at a phone screen!
So Antennagate was the only real issue that Apple had the last few years because it was the only one the admitted? I brought this example because your argument was that it isn't a widespread problem as long as not millions of people return the phone. The antennagate example proved your argument wrong. There are many more "issues" for example that Apple uses different suppliers with different qualities, LG/Samsung displays or Samsung/Toshiba(I guess) SSD for example. Apple didn't admit these were real issue and still people all over the world experienced it. So again your argument that it's only a real issue if Apple admits it is proven wrong.
Maybe the stores in my local Apple Store are different maybe they aren't. Just after I showed you in person what I'm talking about it makes sense to continue talking about this issue with you again. Maybe you see the issue and don't realize it, like the second genius I talked to. Some people see it by themself some need somebody to show it to them first, but trust me so far everybody saw what I'm talking about after I showed it to them. So I'm pretty sure you will too. If you care about this issue or not after seeing it is another topic and doesn't have to be discussed at this moment.
Maybe the stores in my local Apple Store are different maybe they aren't. Just after I showed you in person what I'm talking about it makes sense to continue talking about this issue with you again. Maybe you see the issue and don't realize it, like the second genius I talked to. Some people see it by themself some need somebody to show it to them first, but trust me so far everybody saw what I'm talking about after I showed it to them. So I'm pretty sure you will too. If you care about this issue or not after seeing it is another topic and doesn't have to be discussed at this moment.
And this is another thing impossible due to the technology used in your devices ...
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Finally someone understanding how an LCD display works ...
Does it? I mean really, does it? As far as I know the big advantage of LCD against Plasma or also CRT is that it doesn't flicker! I haven't seen any flicker at all on any other LCD I own ever before. LCD you can run even on low hz and still doesn't flicker while CRT flickered like hell on low hz.
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So if it's always the same please explain me why some iPhones flicker with the test image and some don't? Actually there has to be something different on these phones.
No, Antennagate wasn't the only one.
I'm an Apple user since 1989, I saw apple gone wrong a few times. I can remember about cooling leakage in G5 units, the Time Capsule fiasco, the iPad Nano scratchgate (you'd love this definition), the first iPod Mini hard drive deaths, the MacBook GeForce 8600M defective and many others ...
They were real issues, defects, wrong choices.
Apple is not perfect.
But LCDs flicker nonetheless
If LCD normally do flicker, then it has to be some theoretical flickering which is not visible to the human eye in any normal condition. I hate Plasmas because of the flickering. I never saw any flickering on my TVs. iMac, iPad, iPhone 4, etc. So for sure there isn't any always visible flickering issue with all LCD. If any LCD TV flickered like the "defective" iP5S flicker with the test image nobody would buy them anymore.
I really think it comes down to voltage calibration. In order to meet Apple's demand for the iPhone 5s, these display manufactures ( I'm looking at you LG
) are not calibrating them properly hence the flicking and pixel inversion.How many time have I to post this ?
In order to prevent damage, LCD displays quickly alternate the voltage between positive and negative for each pixel, which is called 'polarity inversion'. Ideally, the rapid polarity inversion wouldn't be noticeable because every pixel has the same brightness whether it a positive or a negative voltage is applied. However, in practice, there is a small difference, which means that every pixel flickers at about 30 hertz.
Yes, they flicker.
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A little difference in voltage regulator could make one less noticeable than another.
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