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That's pretty incredible. Apple knows how to do business, the 5C was genius in that respect.
 
The high uptake of iOS 7 to me looks more like users were really fed up with old look of iOS 6 more than anything else…
Why? Seems to me much simpler: Apple makes it easy to take updates right away, and also trains people into the habit of doing so by seemingly having *something* wanting an update every day, with that red number just sitting there staring at you until you install. See update, install update, see update, instal update, see update, swear at App Store for not grouping them together, install update.

As for screen size: leave the iPhone as-is. Have a version of the iPad mini that includes a phone. Problem solved, if it ever really existed in the first place. Remember the 17" Macbook Pro.

This achievement says more about the years of brilliant marketing, than of the 5S & 5C models. If it has an Apple logo, otherwise smart & discerning people, simply get in line (figuratively speaking) and buy one.
Marketing will get people to try your products the first time. It won't get them to come back for more unless their experience was a good one. At this point, surely many people buy Apple products because they like the ones they already have.

I think it depends... I don't know on what it depends though. The 5s I ordered was charged the second I hit submit; the 5c hasn't been charged yet... I'm hoping its free.
They never did charge me for Lion, and I have no idea why not.

As for the business about 3.5 million phones sitting around on stockroom shelves… assuming all or nearly all the phones Apple sold to those stores are still sitting there unsold makes at least as little sense as insisting that all or nearly all of them have reached individual customers. Why do people want to insist on all the way to either side, when "somewhere between" is so likely and when there's zero way to know where exactly in between the real number is?
 
Most likely, but I really don't want a bigger screen. I really cross shopped a Galaxy 4S, and the thing was just too big for me to casually carry around in my pocket. I really think the 5/5S is the ideal size for me.

Image

I must agree the iP6 doesn't need to be much bigger than the 5/5s, maybe Apple will make the screen edge to egde so the case doesn't need to be much wider.
 
I must agree the iP6 doesn't need to be much bigger than the 5/5s, maybe Apple will make the screen edge to egde so the case doesn't need to be much wider.

Or maybe Apple could improve Apple IOS so that it could handle resolution independence - so that it wouldn't matter if the screen size changed.

Apple's "x or 2x" graphics model is like something from the pre-Fortran era of mid-last century. Apple fans should at least expect Apple to support visualization problems that were solved towards the end of the twentieth century - if not technology from the first decade of the twenty-first century.
 
So, please list Munster's comments/predictions over the last few years, and how they differed from the final reality.


How about


Yeah - people were upset that Jobs' terminal illness was hidden from Apple's owners. Rightfully so.

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Analysts have to guess because Apple doesn't announce their financials with any useful precision.

If this morning Apple had said:
  • we sold 1.7 million Iphone 5S in various colors
  • we sold 470,000 5C in various colors
  • we pumped 6.5 million into the channel, of which we won't know for while which are sitting on shelves to be returned, and which were sold by tiny Radio Shack stores in neighborhood strip malls.
it wouldn't be an issue.

The last point is especially cogent. Is there any Apple fan so blinded by loyalty to the brand that they believe that on Monday morning Apple has hard sales figures for every AT&T and Verizon and Radio Shack and Best Buy and T-Mobile and Sprint and ... store so that Apple can give a solid figure on sell-through the end-users?

I hope not -- today's figures are sell-in to the channel plus Apple's direct sales.

The fans would know that the "9 million" number is nonsense, and so would the rational ones.

Many factors come into play the reason Apple sold 9 million iPhones. One of the biggest reasons was China.

Recently Chinas biggest carrier, China Mobile, finally carries the iPhone at 700 million subscribers. China also usually has to wait several months until the new iPhones get released in their country. But this time China was able to get them at the same time along with a few new countries.

Having 1.3 billion of potential customers able to buy them on the first day definitely helps.

Apple also announced a deal has been struck with NTT DoCoMo, the largest carrier in Japan with about 61 million subscribers.

If you have not noticed we are well in the computer age and have access to data nearly instantaneously. It is also in the realm of possibility we can also get sales number just as quickly.

Its not so much as blind loyalty to Apple but rather based on the facts I just presented.
 
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Wow Apple sold 9 million iPhones ... Really who cares?
Maybe the people who bought one and are trying to justify that they made a good purchase. Also shareholders.
Is this an indication of how good the phone really is?
No, People are buying into the Apple ecosystem if you have used an iOS device in the past its a PITA to switch to android. The phones were bought on Faith in the Apple Brand. Tech reviews are always positive for new devices.
Apple Builds the best phones?
Apple puts out a an amazing final product but other Companies build the components apple just hires someone to assemble them. They design the best final product.
Apple Vs Others?
The best way to look at this is that both sides are winning because they are able to keep selling us improved devices. They are pushing each other to go past the boundaries of what a smart phone can do. Just be happy that there are people on the other side causing companies to innovate or lose customers to the competition.

Having a nice question and answer session with yourself I see.
 
iPhone 6 -> bigger screen, edge to edge design, A8 + new graphics chip, 12MP camera, most of them all "new" design.

That would be an Earth shattering, record breaking launch :):apple:
 
Can someone please explain why people so excited over the same phone again?
The 5c is basically 5 with plastic.
And 5s is fast, and with finger print.
That's it.
Why people buy it like there is no tomorrow?
Am I missing something?
 
Can someone please explain why people so excited over the same phone again?
The 5c is basically 5 with plastic.
And 5s is fast, and with finger print.
That's it.
Why people buy it like there is no tomorrow?
Am I missing something?

i wonder the same too.. it's the same phone.. but this time it has ios7?? but ios7 is just a reskin of ios6 with fancy animations, quick access controls... big whoop. i'm still waiting for a notification center that's actually useful and a framework that allows apps to share w/ each other....errr, kinda like android.
 
Considering everybody else does the same shebang, i'm surprised so many armchair analysts are crying a foul. Apple didn't invent salethrough figures, in fact, apple's figures are probably most accurate since they have their own store and their own store sells a huge amount of inventory.

it's all taken in perspective.

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i wonder the same too.. it's the same phone.. but this time it has ios7?? but ios7 is just a reskin of ios6 with fancy animations, quick access controls... big whoop. i'm still waiting for a notification center that's actually useful and a framework that allows apps to share w/ each other....errr, kinda like android.

it's colorful, it's plastic. there are probably numerous android phones with the exact same specs, i don't see you crying to your mommie about it.
 
Or maybe Apple could improve Apple IOS so that it could handle resolution independence - so that it wouldn't matter if the screen size changed.

Apple's "x or 2x" graphics model is like something from the pre-Fortran era of mid-last century. Apple fans should at least expect Apple to support visualization problems that were solved towards the end of the twentieth century - if not technology from the first decade of the twenty-first century.

Right, because Andriod handles this so nicely... Basically buttons on a 4 inch phone just get blown up on a 6 inch phone where that size is not needed and is just a waste of space.

Andriod does offer more flexibility in terms of resolution but don't make it sound like it has no drawbacks.
 
Can someone please explain why people so excited over the same phone again?
The 5c is basically 5 with plastic.
And 5s is fast, and with finger print.
That's it.
Why people buy it like there is no tomorrow?
Am I missing something?

Sigh. The same thing rehashed every year. Yep, it is exactly the same phone again.
 
I laughed a bit. Munster is consistently wrong, along with the rest of the analysts. Not commenting on this particular situation.

Yep Munster was so far off in his prediction and rather than admitting he got it wrong he just makes up numbers that make his estimate look more accurate.
 
Yep Munster was so far off in his prediction and rather than admitting he got it wrong he just makes up numbers that make his estimate look more accurate.

I don't know how Munster still has a job. He's been wrong so many times and predicted apples doom so many times.

He's the guy who's been predicting an appletv every three months for years, right?

Funny that his word is being believed right now or taken seriously.
 
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Ignoring the fact that you can't provide a source to support the 9 million number as end-user sales (or specifically, to refute the 3½ million channel sales that Apple is claiming as "incredible demand" when they're really "incredible strain on the shelves in the warehouses"), I'll simply point you at Gene Munster's (an analyst who's definitely a friend of Cupertino) opinion that Apple Actually Only Sold 5.5 Million iPhones During Opening Weekend, Says Gene Munster.

If Apple says 9 million, and Gene Munster says 5½, I'll go with Munster. Apple has been lying for decades, and nobody but the fans believe them. Munster has some skin in it - and has much to lose if he's wrong.

Take off the blinders - the unbelievably good "9 million sales" is literally unbelievable - millions of those phones are sitting on shelves because the buyers don't want them.

Apple fans have often held the belief that "Apple counts end-user sales, Samsung counts shipments to channel". The truth is that both count shipments to channel - and the channel is full of Iphone 5C boxes (although yellow seems to be rather popular, so the shelves may be straining under the weight of the other anemic colors).

Just curious what your source is for "Apple has been lying for decades"? Or that there's tons of unsold phones sitting on shelves in warehouses? Why would resellers buy that many phones from Apple if they knew they wouldn't sell? It's not like they can send the phones back to Apple and get a refund.

Note that Apple filed an 8K with the SEC changing their revenue and margin guidance for the quarter so if they're lying then they've also lied to the SEC.

Why in the world would anyone believe Gene Munster? When has he ever been right about anything? Where is this Apple TV he keeps talking about? Or this cheap iPhone with 4/4S innards and missing features like Siri that he predicted? Last year his iPhone 5 predictions were so off the mark he decided to dial them way back this year. And when he turned out to be way off the mark again rather than admitting he blew it (again) he decides to make up some channel stuffing number that gets hm closer to his prediction. Munster is a joke, just like your post.

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I don't know how Munster still has a job. He's been wrong so many times and predicted apples doom so many times.

Funny that his word is being believed right now or taken seriously.

I guess people forgot that he predicted the 5C would be a cheap iPhone with 4/4S innards and stripped of features like Siri (to keep the phone cheap and less desirable I guess).
 
awesome !!

Lets see Microsoft do this.

I wish Apple would care enough about security the same way they care about how many products they sell.
 
Just curious what your source is for "Apple has been lying for decades"?

He's right in a way, but didn't explain it subtly enough.

You could say that Apple lies by omission. Apple always tells bits of truth, just not the whole truth. Nor do they correct falsely favorable conclusions. This is a result of their adopting Steve Jobs' style of speaking.

For minor example, remember Jobs' picture of other smartphones when he debuted the iPhone. He made sure that he only showed smartphone with keyboards, not the touch models. It was a lie by omission.

A bigger example was the info slides shown during the AntennaGate explanation. Each one was carefully cherry-picked to look good, even though if you actually paid attention, they were obviously leaving out some critical info. Apple rehearses these things very carefully, so that each word is true, but the listener fills in the gaps with their own (often mistaken) conclusions.

Or that there's tons of unsold phones sitting on shelves in warehouses?

There's always tons of unsold iPhones. At the last quarterly call, Apple said that there were 11 million iPhones in retailer channel inventory.

Why would resellers buy that many phones from Apple if they knew they wouldn't sell? It's not like they can send the phones back to Apple and get a refund.

Resellers often overbuy at first. That's what happened to Samsung with tablets that one quarter, which led to the oft-misused "shipped vs sold" meme that plagues us to this day. Of course, they were eventually sold and quarterly sales climbed after that.

As I've pointed out many times, the same thing happens pretty often with Apple as well. Sales will be unexpectedly down a quarter, because too many were bought by retailers in the previous quarter.
 
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I feel like we're in a Bizzaro world today. As a former Apple investor, I've watched the stock and Apple analysts very closely over the past five years - more than any other company. As many have indicated, the name Gene Munster usually comes with a grain of salt and perhaps a roll of the eyes. He's always at the upper fringes of the bullish Apple parade. Also, Apple has a long (and somewhat controversial) history of down-playing their own success and providing overly conservative guidance to investors. Now Apple is accused of positive numbers spin... by Gene Munster?! Times are changing indeed.
 
Just curious what your source is for "Apple has been lying for decades"?

How about "first 64-bit desktop"? That was a blatant lie.

Apple's marketing machine has been rather loose with the truth - often when you saw "first" or "fastest" or "2.4x faster" it was either untrue or the fine print defined the comparison so narrowly that the big print was misleading.

The "2.4x faster" case would be the "lie by omission". Run 20 benchmarks, they range from 3% slower to 2.4x faster. Only quote the 2.4x case in the ads.
 
He's right in a way, but didn't explain it subtly enough.

You could say that Apple lies by omission. Apple always tells bits of truth, just not the whole truth. Nor do they correct falsely favorable conclusions. This is a result of their adopting Steve Jobs' style of speaking.

For minor example, remember Jobs' picture of other smartphones when he debuted the iPhone. He made sure that he only showed smartphone with keyboards, not the touch models. It was a lie by omission.

A bigger example was the info slides shown during the AntennaGate explanation. Each one was carefully cherry-picked to look good, even though if you actually paid attention, they were obviously leaving out some critical info needed to reach a real conclusion. Apple rehearses these things very carefully, so that each word is true, but the listener fills in the gaps with their own (often mistaken) conclusions.



There's always tons of unsold iPhones. At the last quarterly call, Apple said that there were 11 million iPhones in retailer inventory. Most people just gloss over such details.



Resellers often overbuy at first. That's what happened to Samsung with tablets that one quarter, which led to the whole idiotic "shipped vs sold" meme that plagues us to this day. Of course, they were eventually sold and quarterly sales climbed after that.

As I've pointed out many times, the same thing happens pretty often with Apple as well. Sales will be unexpectedly down a quarter, because too many were bought by retailers in the previous quarter.

You are defending a general theory instead of the actual statement. The fact is that Apple is tremendously more transparent than any of their competitors when it comes to reporting unit sales and channel inventory. There is a difference between "lies" and choosing favorable comparisons.

Especially when you compare Apple's sales claims to purposely dishonest claims like the one Samsung made last year about Galaxy S3 preorders.
 
For minor example, remember Jobs' picture of other smartphones when he debuted the iPhone. He made sure that he only showed smartphone with keyboards, not the touch models. It was a lie by omission.

I don't see where he is at fault. Of course you're gonna compare the top selling smartphones. I found this article from 1/1/2007.

http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=12710

All of the top best selling models in 2006 had keyboards. Why would he show touch models that 3 people in the entire world bought? They weren't remotely popular at the time. He basically told us "this is what everyone sees when they think of smartphone (Blackberry, Palm)...and this is what Apple thinks a smartphone should be (iPhone)."

And he was right. The best selling smartphones today no longer have keyboards, they have touch screens.
 
You are defending a general theory instead of the actual statement.

Guilty :)

The fact is that Apple is tremendously more transparent than any of their competitors when it comes to reporting unit sales and channel inventory. There is a difference between "lies" and choosing favorable comparisons.

Here you're mixing up two different comments. The comment about unsold inventory is separate from the "lie" section. I'd have made it a separate post, if I had time (and we didn't have automerge here).

I agree that Apple tells more info about sales each quarter. Of course, it'd be even better if they broke that down by model, but that would give their competitors too much valuable info. I'm sure that Samsung feels the same way, and that's why they don't give any details, except for the occasional public milestone.
 
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