iPhone 6 Front Panel Subjected to Scratch Test, Significant Bending

[Parasprite]

What's the deal with the oleophobic coating? It's still going to get micro scratches, which is what most people think are scratches on the glass.

The oleo in oleophobic refers to oil. In other words, the natural oil on your fingers tends to stay on your fingers instead of creating a film of smudgy mess on the glass; it has nothing to do with scratches.

 

[Agent OrangeZ]

The oleo in oleophobic refers to oil. In other words, the natural oil on your fingers tends to stay on your fingers instead of creating a film of smudgy mess on the glass; it has nothing to do with scratches.

But it IS a coating... It has physical dimensions... even if it is very thin.... and the coating is not as hard as the sapphire itself... So yes... theoretically, the screen could get scratches in the COATING.

 

[Parasprite]

But it IS a coating... It has physical dimensions... even if it is very thin.... and the coating is not as hard as the sapphire itself... So yes... theoretically, the screen could get scratches in the COATING.

Yes...it has nothing to do with protecting against scratches because that isn't it's purpose, which is essentially what I just said.

 

[69Mustang]

Skeptical is good, but considering the way the folks at Corning have been dissing sapphire, simply matching GG3 would be quite a feat. So, if it is sapphire, that takes a bit of wind out of Corning's sails.

Now, the HTC One test did not include a knife-point test - it was a knife-edge, and a slicing action, at that. Obviously, we don't know how the HTC One would have fared with knife-point, so no proof, one way or the other.

Knife point vs. knife edge is quite critical, as the force of a knife-point test is focused on one point, while knife-edge is distributed across the area of blade that simultaneously contacts the screen (if the blade doesn't contact squarely, the force is distributed over time as well as space).

In materials of this sort, breakage generally takes place where there is an existing scratch (the traditional method for cutting glass). Depending on thickness (and other properties), glass can be quite flexible (think fiber optics), so flexibility by itself may not prove much, other than that there are no existing flaws. There's no way other components of the phone (LCD display, metal case) could survive being bent to even a fraction of what was shown - knife-point is a far more practical test.

I'm wondering about that bend test, as one of pure sapphire's characteristics is greater rigidity than glass.

However, based on information that's circulating, Apple's screen may be a composite, with an outer surface of sapphire, a sapphire/glass transition zone, and glass backing. As with glass/polycarbonate composite "bulletproof" glass, it's supposed to inherit the best of both materials, with the end result greater than the sum of the parts.

A sand test may not prove much more than the knife test. Quartz (the hardest mineral you'll likely find in quantity in beach sand - Mohs hardness 7) is harder than common glass (5.5) and plain steel (4.5-5), but not as hard as hardened steel (7.5-8), and is likely softer than GG3 (reported variously from 7 to as high as 9) and, of course, sapphire (9). So it's possible the knife could be a more rigorous test than sand - depends on the knife.

A more interesting test would be a sandpaper test, as the force applied can be more effectively controlled, and the hardness of the abrasive material is known - garnet (6.5-7.5) is similar in hardness to quartz, while aluminum oxide and tungsten carbide are equivalent in hardness to sapphire (9) (well, sapphire is aluminum oxide).

I knew someone would focus on the knife point test and (sort of) disregard the rest. That's why I said similar test. I disagree with the knife point test as practical. With phones and tablets, the key test was much more practical and real world applicable. Not many phones are going to be stabbed. Fare more practical would have been a drop test (understanding that circumstance didn't allow it). As for Corning and their battle with sapphire, I couldn't care less. As long as one of those technologies make the phones less prone to fracture, not scratching, I consider it a win. I've never worried about scratches, but I have replaced a few cracked screens.

We both agree about the bending test. No phone would be bent that dramatically and pure sapphire would not be able to do it. Possibly a composite, but Apple isn't pursuing a composite in the manor you described. In fact it's the exact opposite. From: https://www.macrumors.com/2014/03/27/sapphire-patent-oleophobic/

Relevant portion excerpted below:

"The patent details a multi-layer display material with a base sapphire layer, a transition layer that serves to bond the surface layer to the base layer and finally a surface layer with an oleophobic coating.
Various embodiments described herein encompass a component with a substrate having an alumina base layer, a transition layer comprising alumina and silica, and a surface coating that preferentially bonds to the silica. The base layer may comprise a single-crystal sapphire. The transition layer may transition substantially continuously from about 100% alumina at the base layer to include substantial silica content at the surface coating, or to about 100% silica or silica glass at the surface coating.

A surface layer may be formed on the transition layer, with a substantially silica content, for example substantially 100% silica or silica glass, and the surface coating may be oleophobic. A portable electronic device may comprise the coated component, the portable device may include a window, the oleophobic coating may be provided on an exterior surface of the window, and the window may also include a touch screen."

When this post originally appeared I asked the question that no one answered. If sapphire is the base and glass is the surface layer, how does that improve scratch resistance?

Anywhoooo, I also agree with you about the sandpaper test. Whether the panel in the video is an actual sapphire panel remains to be seen. I'm about 80% convinced it's not. The bending seriously threw me for a loop. Funny thing, everything in that video (stabbing notwithstanding) can be done with Gorilla Glass... including the bending.

 

[fullauto]

Impressive, and hurrah to no longer needing, or feeling the need to use a screen protector. Sadly I doubt the rear casing will have the same scratch resistance. A liquidmetal rear or all sapphire glass device would be welcomed

 

[keifer.street]

I hope that Apple does not revert to having the FaceTime camera to the left of the speaker, a-la iPhone 4/4S. The lack of symmetry just seems odd for an Apple product.

They did that to reduce the upper bezel size height given the larger display size... think, man, think!

 

[alexgowers]

I'm sure corning of gorilla glass fame will be first to bash sapphire in phones and claim their formula is better but in the end it's the death throws of gorilla glass in phones of the future, i'm sure it'll still be around but they've had their peak, watch every other manufacturer scramble to build their own sapphire furnaces!

Quality is a thing of the past, I guess

Used to be that keys were built strong to survive thousands of uses, a knife would cut whatever you wanted to cut, and a good shoe would never flex like that under the pressure of some random piece of a telephone.

I know that you were being funny but knives need to be sharpened and better quality ones are designed to be sharped with ease meaning they blunt under normal use.

Keys have to be softer than locks so are designed to be worn down rather than too hard and damage the lock.

Trainers are supposed to bend.

I'm being facetious but go go sapphire iPhone! looks absolutely amazing.

 

[mejsric]

He's owns more Apple products than u#

Lol. There is only few Apple devices. Unless he is buying Apple devices on 10x. Like 10x Mac Pro, 10x iPhone..

 

[APlotdevice]

Yes...it has nothing to do with protecting against scratches because that isn't it's purpose, which is essentially what I just said.

You're missing the point: even if the sapphire layer is scratch proof, if there is still a softer oleophobic layer above it then the screen won't be entirely immune to scratches.

 

[bigjnyc]

I hate this guy... Really... This is one of the stupidest Apple hater. He usually called Apple products an overprice *****. But now he looks like joke being excited for iPhone 6. Cant wait his 1m Android fans how to react.

Oh you wouldn't know it from this video lol. This is the only video I've ever seen of his so he fooled me

 

[Parasprite]

You're missing the point: even if the sapphire layer is scratch proof, if there is still a softer oleophobic layer above it then the screen won't be entirely immune to scratches.

I wasn't talking about the sapphire being scratchproof, I was explaining the purpose of the oleophobic layer.

 

[69Mustang]

I'm sure corning of gorilla glass fame will be first to bash sapphire in phones and claim their formula is better but in the end it's the death throws of gorilla glass in phones of the future, i'm sure it'll still be around but they've had their peak, watch every other manufacturer scramble to build their own sapphire furnaces!



I know that you were being funny but knives need to be sharpened and better quality ones are designed to be sharped with ease meaning they blunt under normal use.

Keys have to be softer than locks so are designed to be worn down rather than too hard and damage the lock.

Trainers are supposed to bend.

I'm being facetious but go go sapphire iPhone! looks absolutely amazing.

I am pretty sure you're referencing GG vs Sapphire in general, but Corning thinking they offer a better product can't be considered bashing. Calling it garbage is, but saying I offer a superior product is not. Regarding the video, I'd be more willing to bet that is a GG panel instead of an actual sapphire panel. I've already posted a video of GG exhibiting the same qualities and that video is over a year old. I am most skeptical because of the bending. That is a quality of GG, and not a quality of sapphire. Unless it's a sapphire composite, I seriously doubt a substance as hard as sapphire is bending like that.

 

[SolarShane]

Will someone please drop an iPhone 6 from space?

 

[Norbury]

As I've stated elsewhere in the forums rigidity isn't absolute, you can make anything flexible if you make it thin enough, glass and sapphire included. Those stating it can't be sapphire because the screen flexes are completely wrong. It could be a composite of sapphire on glass, but it doesn't need to be. (Qualifications: materials scientist)

I was contemplating moving away from Apple for my next phone, but this might help persuade me to stay.

 

[Parasprite]

Will someone please drop an iPhone 6 from space?

Your iPhone 6 is now floating in mid-air and your body begins to involuntarily shiver.

 

[Bare]

This video is quite impressive. I'd rather see a real part that shows extreme durability and scratch resistance than mock-up after mock-up on the front page. Not sure why this is a Page 2 article.

Also included in the video were descriptions about the iPhone 5S already featuring sapphire glass for the camera lens and the home button, which I knew at one point (and maybe I'm just an idiot) but I had forgotten about. Getting that reminder adds credibility to the idea that Apple would look to increase the amount of sapphire used on their devices.

 

[SockRolid]

Way late to the party, just watched the video. Incredible screen. Hope it's the real deal. And I'm more than just slightly happy to see that it's not drastically larger than the 5/5S. I like my 501s and my old "5" is already a tight fit. Especially when trying to stow / fetch it while I'm sitting down, because of the bend in the pocket at the hip.

And seriously, The Verge needs to hire this guy.
Unless he gets paid more already, of course.

----------

Will someone please drop an iPhone 6 from space?

Will it blend?

 

[joshdammit]

I wasn't talking about the sapphire being scratchproof, I was explaining the purpose of the oleophobic layer.

The argument is: scratch-proof or not, if the display has that smudge-proof layer on it, and THAT scratches, we still might see scratches on our display.
Your rebuttal was "...but it's oil proof!"
When the other person went on to reiterate what they meant, you continued on saying "It's not supposed to be scratch proof, it's supposed to be oil proof."

The other person is concerned that regardless of the display being made of sapphire - a material known among the MR forums to be scratch proof - it will still register scratches due to that oleophobic coating over it. Nobody in this discussion asked you to explain to us what oleophobic means. Nobody is refuting that the coating isn't scratch proof. This really isn't that difficult to understand.

 

[BvizioN]

I hate this guy... Really... This is one of the stupidest Apple hater. He usually called Apple products an overprice *****. But now he looks like joke being excited for iPhone 6. Cant wait his 1m Android fans how to react.

I think his only complain have always been about iPhone small screen size! As you may have noticed, he have giant size hands! Larger screen iPhone size perhaps made him change his thoughts.

 

[Parasprite]

The argument is: scratch-proof or not, if the display has that smudge-proof layer on it, and THAT scratches, we still might see scratches on our display.
Your rebuttal was "...but it's oil proof!"
When the other person went on to reiterate what they meant, you continued on saying "It's not supposed to be scratch proof, it's supposed to be oil proof."

The other person is concerned that regardless of the display being made of sapphire - a material known among the MR forums to be scratch proof - it will still register scratches due to that oleophobic coating over it. Nobody in this discussion asked you to explain to us what oleophobic means. Nobody is refuting that the coating isn't scratch proof. This really isn't that difficult to understand.

The OP did ask what the oleophobic was for if you'd bothered to look, but you can go back to your anti-oleophobic coating circlejerk now... sorry I bothered to answer a question.

 

[mr99]

I think his only complain have always been about iPhone small screen size! As you may have noticed, he have giant size hands! Larger screen iPhone size perhaps made him change his thoughts.

I think most are excited for the real estate bump

 

[Dreamliner330]

I'm wondering if this is really a production part and not just one of those glass screen protectors.

Even though I watch quite a bit of media content (YouTube, Netflix, etc) on my phone, I really am not interested in an enourmous device. On Android, bigger devices usually means bigger content, not more content and I'm not interested in that.

I think his only complain have always been about iPhone small screen size! As you may have noticed, he have giant size hands! Larger screen iPhone size perhaps made him change his thoughts.

I went from a 5.5" Galaxy Note 2 to an iPhone 4, then iPhone 5 a week later. I don't mind the size. I could use longer battery life though.

 

[itsmemuffins]

You're missing the point: even if the sapphire layer is scratch proof, if there is still a softer oleophobic layer above it then the screen won't be entirely immune to scratches.

The argument is: scratch-proof or not, if the display has that smudge-proof layer on it, and THAT scratches, we still might see scratches on our display.
Your rebuttal was "...but it's oil proof!"
When the other person went on to reiterate what they meant, you continued on saying "It's not supposed to be scratch proof, it's supposed to be oil proof."

The other person is concerned that regardless of the display being made of sapphire - a material known among the MR forums to be scratch proof - it will still register scratches due to that oleophobic coating over it. Nobody in this discussion asked you to explain to us what oleophobic means. Nobody is refuting that the coating isn't scratch proof. This really isn't that difficult to understand.

Correct.

The OP did ask what the oleophobic was for if you'd bothered to look, but you can go back to your anti-oleophobic coating circlejerk now... sorry I bothered to answer a question.

No I didn't ask about what the oleophobic coating does. I asked if it will still get micro scratches, therefore the sapphire glass will still show scratches, even though the actual screen isn't scratched just the coating.

 

[Parasprite]

No I didn't ask about what the oleophobic coating does. I asked if it will still get micro scratches, therefore the sapphire glass will still show scratches, even though the actual screen isn't scratched just the coating.

Okay, glad we cleared that up.