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iPhone 6, is it worth 150-200% the price of Android high-end phones?
- Thread starter skaertus
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Not many people need, or can afford, the 128GB 6+. It's still exactly the same phone as the *much* cheaper 16GB model, just with a boatload of Apple-taxed flash memory onboard. The 128GB model just amplifies the ridiculous price of Apple goods, not how cheap the Note 4 is.
got some proof for your first sentence; is it an opinion trying to be stated as fact?
Who cares? Last time I checked, the Note 4 was just another Samsung's phone running Android. In this forum we speak about Apple's iPhone running iOS.
I'd be pleased to give you a couple of links of Android enthusiastic forums, if you wish.
I don't think Note 4 is cheap - £599:
http://www.samsung.com/uk/consumer/mobile-devices/galaxy-note/smartphones/SM-N910FZKEBTU
And here is the price of iPhone 6+ 128GB - £699:
http://store.apple.com/uk/buy-iphone/iphone6
The difference is £100.
Well, I - personally - would not pay for either of them that price.
Value for money? Anything those devices can do that others don't?
Of course, it is quite understandable if there are consumers who are eager to pay for the "feeling". That is their choice.
http://www.samsung.com/uk/consumer/mobile-devices/galaxy-note/smartphones/SM-N910FZKEBTU
And here is the price of iPhone 6+ 128GB - £699:
http://store.apple.com/uk/buy-iphone/iphone6
The difference is £100.
Well, I - personally - would not pay for either of them that price.
Value for money? Anything those devices can do that others don't?
Of course, it is quite understandable if there are consumers who are eager to pay for the "feeling". That is their choice.
It seems accusations are made here and very quickly proven wrong, only for another fault or point to be made in order to find the next negative. I'm interested, do we have these same nit picking debates amongst Android users where they argue their £100 device is just as good as a £600 device? Or feature arguments where manufacturer features are played against each other in order to convince fellow posters have wasted their money? Or is it simply because the company in question here is Apple?
So we've now proven the iPhone 6 does not cost 150 or 200% more than high end Android phones, so the only thing to pick apart now is features (as always). It is funny to watch the rationales coming in in order to justify the iPhone being a rip off for some, yet it's still a popular device doing a great job of being a smartphone. The mind boggles it really does. Whatever happened to consumer satisfaction and being that happy with your choice that you don't have a need to criticise rival products? Apple customers appear the most satisfied judging by many threads and that kind of contradicts the thread where Samsung has surpassed Apple in consumer satisfaction. Let's get some of these happy customers here for balance!
So we've now proven the iPhone 6 does not cost 150 or 200% more than high end Android phones, so the only thing to pick apart now is features (as always). It is funny to watch the rationales coming in in order to justify the iPhone being a rip off for some, yet it's still a popular device doing a great job of being a smartphone. The mind boggles it really does. Whatever happened to consumer satisfaction and being that happy with your choice that you don't have a need to criticise rival products? Apple customers appear the most satisfied judging by many threads and that kind of contradicts the thread where Samsung has surpassed Apple in consumer satisfaction. Let's get some of these happy customers here for balance!
I was thinking the iPhone 6 was already overly expensive in Brazil. However, today, Apple has just risen the prices of the iPhone again:
http://www.telecompaper.com/news/apple-increases-iphone-prices-in-brazil--1057681
Now, the cheapest iPhone 6 costs more than US$1,300 here. The raise in prices is a result of the raise in the US dollar.
Due to these prices, even Windows phones are selling more than the iPhone here in Brazil: http://www.winbeta.org/news/microsofts-windows-phone-outsells-apples-iphone-brazil-according-idc
Seriously. Dude. Seriously.
This government is just killing the country. Costly social programs bought the votes to re-elect the president, while the poor population that benefit from it seems to not even care about the billion-dollar corruption scandals (http://www.economist.com/news/ameri...y?zid=309&ah=80dcf288b8561b012f603b9fd9577f0e). Brazil needed change (http://www.economist.com/news/leade...f-and-elect-cio-neves-why-brazil-needs-change), and the change did not come.
Billions and billions of dollars are spent in vote buying, corruption, and giving away money to large local groups. Meanwhile, taxes are higher than ever and foreign investors are running away of the country with their dollars. Very well done.
At this pace, in a few months, I will not be able to buy not even an iPod nano.
http://www.telecompaper.com/news/apple-increases-iphone-prices-in-brazil--1057681
Now, the cheapest iPhone 6 costs more than US$1,300 here. The raise in prices is a result of the raise in the US dollar.
Due to these prices, even Windows phones are selling more than the iPhone here in Brazil: http://www.winbeta.org/news/microsofts-windows-phone-outsells-apples-iphone-brazil-according-idc
Seriously. Dude. Seriously.
This government is just killing the country. Costly social programs bought the votes to re-elect the president, while the poor population that benefit from it seems to not even care about the billion-dollar corruption scandals (http://www.economist.com/news/ameri...y?zid=309&ah=80dcf288b8561b012f603b9fd9577f0e). Brazil needed change (http://www.economist.com/news/leade...f-and-elect-cio-neves-why-brazil-needs-change), and the change did not come.
Billions and billions of dollars are spent in vote buying, corruption, and giving away money to large local groups. Meanwhile, taxes are higher than ever and foreign investors are running away of the country with their dollars. Very well done.
At this pace, in a few months, I will not be able to buy not even an iPod nano.
Thanks for the advice, guest I will just roll eyes and move along when I read the off the wall stuff that is post here by the trollers, going to be hard sometimes but I know I can do it. ##
Well yeah scrolling is simply different as I was saying. You can scroll to the bottom of a page quicker on Android and you can get back to the top of a page quicker on iOS. The latter is more of an advantage for my use but as others have said the advantages of both her pretty much cancel each other out.
As far as pretty filler goes I think 'if' Apple are indeed hiding lag then then have done a very good job if it gives people the perception it isn't there. That is the sign of a very polished piece of software that is keen to make the user experience as pleasant as possible. I think that in itself is worth paying extra for because frustration makes people shop elsewhere.
I use PC's as design packages I use are not available on Mac. My wife is in marketing and runs a large graphics department which is all Mac and this is represented in the lions share of that industry. I have two Laptops, a Dell and one from Workstation Specialists and they are super fast. My wife has two 2014 MBP's and for general user experience I think the Mac's win hands down from what I have seen. But that is going off topic a little. I'm just saying user experience sometimes outweighs features.
This I agree with entirely. I used Android for 4 years and had one of the first Android devices and ended with the Samsung GS3, before switching to the iPhone. I admit I got bored and felt a solid user experience was desired more than a feature packed phone that I didn't feel was implemented well enough. I know an awful lot has changed with the current Android flagship devices in the past 2 years, but at present I am happy with the iPhone 6 and didn't feel the need to change from it back in September. I don't like picking a side and blindly supporting it because I like choice and that may not be with Apple in the future.
Your point is correct I think with nearly everybody who isn't a tech nerd. People choose based on experience, ease of use and reliability. They will follow this choice until it lets them down. It's very rare you hear somebody tell you they've bought a phone because it's got a quad core thingy or because it's got a superb right screen. They are fancy components but the user experience and software is key first and foremost.
True this is me for sure along with many other people out there. User experience come before specks for me. But I was just impress with the 6+ performance even with 1gb of ram vs the Note 4 3gb of ram. It held its own really well in that speed test for a phone only with 1gb of ram, it's performance was pretty strong #
I actually don't care at all at specs list.
They are good only in Android ecosystem, trying to differentiate hundreds of otherwise identical products....
It's not that much more expensive than the 64GB model though, particularly if you buy it on contract you can spread the cost.
However OS's aside, I really value the ability to have 128GB of internal storage, so didn't mind paying a premium for that.
I have no idea what the Moto x goes for where you are but it's about $400 USD. Too of my head conversion says that's about right?
Anyway, I as merely speaking about the filler. It's definitely there. I agree it's minor. But then so are the tiny bits of kag scrolling on Android that people don't seem to like. As with many things it boils down to preference.
Moto X costs more here in Europe (about 500), but it still is a good deal compared to any other flagship.
Yet it is another Android phone, so it doesn't count for me.
A quick look at the Moto X in the UK suggests it is £99 on contract or £420 for the base model. You get a much better deal on that device in the US and it's a phone that isn't heavily advertised here. That is definitely the cheapest Android high end phone I have seen and a few of the reviews suggest it's good for the money compared to the 'expensive S5 and M8'. As you say it comes down to preference and looking at the Moto X I would still say the iPhone is worth paying more for, regardless if it has nowhere near as many software features. That is just me though, and I think this further confirms that the thread title is inaccurate with its percentages.
The person I was quoting asked for a high end android phone in a certain price range. Why on earth it's oriced that high is beyond me. I guess that's the trade off. We tend to pay more in our service plans. You guys tend to pay more for your devices.
The person I was quoting asked for a high end android phone in a certain price range. Why on earth it's oriced that high is beyond me. I guess that's the trade off. We tend to pay more in our service plans. You guys tend to pay more for your devices.
Don't tell me.... IPhones are so expensive here....
I'm a financial analyst and worked in the computer industry for many years and I can tell you that the biggest reason that electronic devices cost as much as they do is because of material costs. You ultimately get what you pay for. Apple uses Sapphire glass in it's TouchID which is expensive but they also have the most reliable ID system in the world. Apple screens respond to touch quicker than anyone else, their memory read/write speeds are faster etc. etc. This all costs money.
I came to Apple kicking and screaming because I was firmly in the "Anything but Apple" club. However, the quality problems I had with everyone else's devices is what made me give the iphone a try in 2010. From an OS perspective I value security and reliability above all else. iOS rules the roost from this standpoint.
There isn't as much profit in each iPhone as people think. When business articles speak about the "huge profit margins" that Apple has, it is in comparison to other companies who have very small margins. But it's not like Apple could drop their price by $100 and still make a decent profit.
This cost analysis is for the iPad Air 2 but it gives you some idea what the per unit profits that Apple is looking at.
http://www.perezonomics.com/1/post/...does-apple-really-make-on-the-ipad-air-2.html
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Yeah, it's one thing to constructively criticise Apple because we want to make things better but this guy, mib1800, is something else. It's like he comes to Mac Forums just to argue and he always ends up looking uninformed. He is a troll.
I came to Apple kicking and screaming because I was firmly in the "Anything but Apple" club. However, the quality problems I had with everyone else's devices is what made me give the iphone a try in 2010. From an OS perspective I value security and reliability above all else. iOS rules the roost from this standpoint.
There isn't as much profit in each iPhone as people think. When business articles speak about the "huge profit margins" that Apple has, it is in comparison to other companies who have very small margins. But it's not like Apple could drop their price by $100 and still make a decent profit.
This cost analysis is for the iPad Air 2 but it gives you some idea what the per unit profits that Apple is looking at.
http://www.perezonomics.com/1/post/...does-apple-really-make-on-the-ipad-air-2.html
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Yeah, it's one thing to constructively criticise Apple because we want to make things better but this guy, mib1800, is something else. It's like he comes to Mac Forums just to argue and he always ends up looking uninformed. He is a troll.
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Both of the articles that you quoted I am in agreement with. The thing that they both spelled out was that they are were only including production costs. They didn't go all the way down to Net Income the way I do. What they are comparing is gross margin. Distribution costs, marketing, corporate allocations, etc still all need to be deducted from their figures. And it sure isn't taking into account the R&D costs that went into developing the 6 Plus that Apple wants to recoup.
My point still stands, it's not like Apple could drop the price $100 or more and get a decent profit. A small profit but not an acceptable one to justify the capital invested.
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It is true.
However, if you take into account all the (omitted) mentioned costs and the volume of production (540.000 units/day - output rate 50% - 85%), then adding 125 USD per unit is realistic. If the logic is correct then approximately half of the price of the unit is profit.
But it is the normal practice with almost all companies in this and other fileds.
I'm not following you. And since Apple doesn't report profitability by model all we can do is guess.
I just know from my prior experience some of what is probably behind the 6 Plus pricing.
The articles are true, however, they leave out vital information for the sake of generating sensational headlines. For instance, let's say that the return rate of the iPhone 6 Plus is much higher than the iPhone 6 because many users decide the phone is too large for them. Apple ends up having to spend more money to refurb all those returns. All the money for new screens, battery's etc ends up in Warranty Costs and is charged to iPhone 6 Plus income statement specifically.This is below Gross Profit and in SG&A.
Or let's say that Apple has two years of research and development costs in experimenting with phablet sized phones. These costs are spread over a smaller pool of phones because the 6 outsells the 6 Plus. Apple has to make this money back on the 6 Plus. This is also not reflected in Gross Profit (margin).
Or if Apple has to spend just as much in Tooling, Factory Overhead, etc to produce the iPhone 6 Plus, it ends up spreading those costs over a smaller pool of phones. None of these costs are taken into account by those articles. Those guys are not manufacturing experts.
I just know that there is no way that half of the iPhone price is pure profit going into Apple's bank account.
Oh, I thought about it a little more and I think I understand what you were getting at. You were saying that perhaps all the omitted costs were adding an additional $125 per unit yielding an operating profit of about 50%.
Here is why I don't agree with that.
1. Apple's overall operating profit is at 28.7%. And if the iPhone is over half of their revenue, that would mean that everything else would have to be earning close to 0% profit.
Apple
2014 Q3
Reported Results
Revenue $182,795,000
Material ?
Labor & Overhead ?
COGS 112,258,000 61.4%
Gross Margin 70,537,000 38.6%
R&D 6,041,000 3.3%
SG&A 11,993,000 6.6%
Operating Income 52,503,000 28.7%
Income Tax @ 26.6% 13,973,000
Net Income $38,530,000 21.1%
Attachments
