With the loss of the analog 3.5 audio jack the decoding will be done outside the iphone either inside the headphones or with a dedicated DAC attached to the phone. The Headphones are then attached to the DAC probably via a 3.5 mm DAC. So what's the point of in CPU decoding when there is no analog output any more. Or am I completely wrong here?
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iPhone 7 and the Audiophile Case For Lightning Headphones
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iPhone 6s/+ sold well enough to give Apple a profit that was almost head spinning - just lower numbers by 16% of the actual units sold. 13% less overall profits. That alone forced Apple to bring the iPhone SE; that is still 2-3 weeks shipping delay in the 64 GB form.
My point is, Apple does not like to lose even a "few" customers, 16% is a high number. The impact on people pissed-off by the lack of the mini jack will be greater than that number that was just not happy about the 5s size loss. Even if the so called saturation point is reached world over, the annual and 2-3 year updaters alone will buy enough to keep Apple in such great profits - but that sector will be lost if the buyers world over are not going to refresh if the headphone jack is missing.
They can go to the 2.5 mm form - the adapters for those will stay on the headphone cable.
What do people think of putting the headphone jack back at the top - like 4s?
Looking at the history of convenience vs. sound quality in audio convenience almost always wins out. Once the sound quality reached a minimum threshold the smallest and cheapest device that could deliver that level became the popular standard. Record companies could have produced higher end vinyl records 60 years ago, but for the most part they didn't because it would have cost more. Especially in the 50's the sound engineers intentionally compressed the dynamic range of "teenage" music, making a lot of records the equivalent of low bit-rate mp3's. Cassette tapes beat out 8-track tapes because they were smaller and cheaper, not because they sounded better. Even the specs for CD audio was determined by convenience, the bit-rate was put low enough that a Beethoven symphony would fit on a single CD instead of a higher rate that that would have required multiple discs. Mp3's lowered that bit rate ( and sound quality) further, just so more songs could be stored on a device.
There exists high end DVD albums and equipment that produces superior sound. In the purely analog world high quality low speed cut LP's made of better vinyl and turntables produce great sound. You probably know someone who has such a system. But for every person who has a high end system you probably know 30-50 people who don't and wouldn't pay what it cost to get one.
Price and convenience wins audio wars. If a new audio standard can also improve sound quality, great, but if there is a cheaper system available at the current quality then that system will win.
There exists high end DVD albums and equipment that produces superior sound. In the purely analog world high quality low speed cut LP's made of better vinyl and turntables produce great sound. You probably know someone who has such a system. But for every person who has a high end system you probably know 30-50 people who don't and wouldn't pay what it cost to get one.
Price and convenience wins audio wars. If a new audio standard can also improve sound quality, great, but if there is a cheaper system available at the current quality then that system will win.
Your comments just further reinforce my belief that the issue people have is not directly related to he headphone jack, but rather an aversion to change in general.
Should I assume that you felt the same way about the floppy disk shift to cd to usb drives, the shift from leaded petrol to unleaded, or coal heat to oil to natural gas? They all were the dominant technology of the day, cheap and in plentiful supply. And when the shift happened, people did have to dump the old and buy new. So what's the difference with the purported shift from one headphone jack to another?
Just because it's cheap and available everywhere doesn't make it good. I would argue that when you hit that point in the life of any product, it becomes a perfect target for change.
I think it is a bad idea.
I currently keep my iPhone upside down in my pants pocket, because touch-ID makes it easy to unlock my iPhone as I fish it out of my pocket. Since the best way to keep the phone is upside down, it makes sense to keep the headphone jack at the bottom (assuming it stays).
I'm all for the vast majority of changes even if Apple makes them early. I have a rMB and have no problem with the single usb-c port, and think that outfitting the new MBP with usb-c/thunderbolt only is a good idea. However I'm having a really hard time seeing any advantage for the consumer by getting rid of the 3.5mm jack. The current jack isn't limiting sound quality in any way, it's cheap, durable, compact, convenient. This is a change that benefits Apple alone. With every one of the other changes you mention, there were real advantages for the consumer once the change was made. Tell me what the advantage is for the consumer in this case.
The point I was trying to make is innovation with delivery of audio/visual is a constant. The next point is we will look back in a few years and be thankful the crappy jack has been replaced.
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Oh sorry, forgot to add... you honestly believe Samsung and Sony are not going digital with their audio device connectors? Really?
And before you say they will use a different connection (USB) and not an Apple Lightening standard, TV manufacturers produce different types of LCD, LED, OLED etc. panels but they all standardize on a few resolutions. This is the equivalent of audio connection going digital but using different connector standards to achieve this.
What exactly is crappy about the current jack? Please be specific.
Apple is probably doing this just so they can sell more adapters, repair services, and headphone. Next they'll drop lightning foe some new proprietary connection.
Not Quite... the 30-pin port has a set of pins that are for analog output. The DAC is built into the iPod in this case. Lightning only passes a digital bitstream, so any conversion has to be done on the other end.
The DAC in the iPod > the DAC in the 30-pin to Lightning adapter... by a mile.
Also, when you listen to audio via the headphone jack on, say, an iPhone, you're listening to audio that's been run through the iPhone's internal DAC. This converter is also better sounding than the 30-pin to lightning adapter. Basically, I'm nervous that any adapters or headphones are going to have DACs that sound like crap in order to save a few pennies.
There is so much misinformation in this thread. This is NOT the case. Audio analog formats definitely have their limits hence the frequency limit of the recording medium. Take 70mm film for example. Yes it's effective Pixels per frame are in theory 16 million or thereabouts vs say 4K which is about 8.8 (hateful 8 on 70mm 5 perf was 8.8) The color data for the digital format is more accurate and has better dynamic range in comparison but the 70mm has far more resolution. Anyone who has done film or photography will tell you there are things more important than megapixels.
Take phonograph for example. It typically maxes out at 30khz (with expensive cartridges) but usually 25khz and has a dynamic range of 75dB. 16 bit digital audio has a dr of 96dB! 24 bit 96 or 192? 144dB! With it being a logarithmic scale it like you are saying a whispered conversation is as loud as a jet engine taking off next to you with no ear protection. Get out of here with that nonsense.
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lets be honest here its just another way apple can cut production cost yet still charge the same for the phone and make more money. As well as charge for a extra dongle so you can use your 3.5 headphone jack. THAN charge for ANOTHER dongle so you can listen to music and charge your phone at the same time. a WIN WIN WIN for apple at the expense of the consumer lol good bye iphone. ALOT of people are jumping ship over the 7. it just doesnt make any sense to the average phone user.
This is the kind of FUD that always amazes me. Apple is currently in a market slump, with their competition gaining market share. Why would Apple remove something in use by many customers, albeit a likely minority, and offer something worse in its place? Especially if their competition wasn't also in the same position of having to ditch the 3.5mm Jack as well?
Apple has a major marketing task ahead of them in order to sell the removal of the Jack. In fact once Apple announces the change, people who haven't used their headphone jack in years will suddenly be outraged about its removal (as are many in these forums I'll bet). So one way they will almost certainly position this change is improved audio quality. I would be surprised if Apple didn't offer even higher quality options than they currently do. After all, whatever they designed into the existing adapters 4 years ago, are likely much less expensive now, and newer better components will be purchased in significant volume to reduce the price, than the 30-pin adapters are. The bottom line here is Apple has to hit this out of the park, and they can't do it by offering cheap alternatives to what they already offer.
Add to that, it will be at least 6 months to a year before Android makers will likely drop the headphone jack from their competing flagship phones, which means a lot of disenfranchised iPhone users who might defect to keep the headphone jack with the latest features -- and certainly it will be a decision for platform switchers to Apple. If Apple can offer higher quality audio, then they may be able to stem some of the flow away. But they can't offer higher quality audio by taking the cheap way out. People who care about the headphone jack, will notice. And, in a post 3.5mm jack market, vendors who take the cheap way out will lose in the long run, as demand, competition, innovation and quality will all increase.
the problem with this argument is that im pretty sure more than 50% of iphone users actually use the headphone jack and whats rubbing people the wrong way is Apple's justification to do so. there is no reason to remove it as they are not removing it to offer any clear benefit. removing the headphone jack doe not allow the phone to have a bigger battery or offer any real consumer benefit. the only thing it does is lessen the manufacturing cost and save apple some money which does nothing to the consumer. then allow them to make more proprietary dongles we never needed so they can make more money.
and i dont want to even hear apple say a single word about making the phone thinner. its already to thin we dont need another "bendgate" i wish they could just take the 5s design and just make it bigger....
The jack has nothing to do with the quality. The DAC before the jack and the speakers have to do with quality. The jack simply passes an analog electrical signal from one end to another. Moving the DAC doesn't make one bit of difference. Not with the distances involved. The typical cord used is a couple of feet long. Assuming the DAC in the phone is located at the top, using an adapter moves the DAC from the top to the bottom of the phone. Using larger headphones that have the DAC in the ear piece moves it 2 feet.
If Apple was truly concerned about sound quality, they's just use a better DAC, which would have the benefit of also improving the speaker sound quality.
[doublepost=1465488107][/doublepost]Lightning connector phones for headphones makes no sense... unless they give us 2 lightning connectors. Only then can i at least consider the inconvenience of carrying a proprietary headphone tech. Right now, if I forget my earbuds while travelling somewhere, I quickly buy those dirt cheap earbuds that can get me through a trip.
According to some rumors, Apple's iPhone 7 and iPhone 7 Plus will not include a headphone jack, requiring headphones to connect to the devices using a Lightning connector.
Last month, MacRumors considered the case for and against Lightning headphones by comparing the audio performance of existing brands at three different price points: the $45 Brightech earphones, the $300 Philips Fidelio M2L headphones, and the $800 Audeze El-8 headphones.
In our tests, all of the Lightning-connected headphones, from the $45 pair to the $800 pair, sounded better than comparable headphones connected to an iPhone using the 3.5mm jack.
Yesterday, The Verge took a closer look at the brand in our highest price bracket, the Audeze El-8, alongside the company's Sine headphones, and argued its own reasons for why adopting Lightning for audio should be considered a welcome and essential advance for serious listeners.
The review makes the general case that Lightning headphones have the potential to hand crucial audio reproduction tasks back to the headphone maker, relegating the iPhone to the role of simple digital source. For high-end listening enthusiasts, this is said to be a potential game-changer, although the impact on an iPhone 7's battery life obviously remains unclear.
In purely sonic terms, The Verge notes how the Audeze audiophile cans sound "dramatically better when exploiting the all-digital connection with their so-called Cipher Lightning cable", which houses its own digital signal processor, digital-to-analog converter (DAC), and headphone amplifier.
"If all future Lightning headphones are designed as thoughtfully and in the same integrated manner as Audeze's, then we'll have nothing to fear from the future," says The Verge. "These Lightning headphones are the real deal: good enough to make me forget all about the 3.5mm jack."
The review continues in a breakdown of general arguments for using Lightning for serious listening enjoyment, the first being better hi-fi portability. This is based on the idea that the integrated smartphone DACs and amps which traditional 3.5mm jack headphones rely on are inferior to dedicated external components.
Given that the latter are usually bulky and inconvenient in their own right, if Lightning headphones can integrate these components into the connector cable, the trade-off should be far superior sound quality.
The second argument for Lightning is more power: the reviewer notes that the iPhone's integrated circuitry is among the best on the market, but it still lacks the power to drive high-end cans to their full potential.
The article also highlights the fact that the Audeze iOS app gives exceptional control over headphone frequency response, and saves user settings in the firmware housed in the Cipher cable.
Finally, The Verge argues that the growing trend towards more digital and less analog "make(s) the classic 3.5mm jack redundant" and positions Lightning alongside wireless protocols as the future drivers of audio innovation.
The iPhone 7 is expected to be launched in September, when we should find out just what's in store for audio enthusiasts and regular listeners alike. You can read The Verge's original article here, and be sure to catch MacRumors' video, Lightning Headphones: Are They Better or Just an Inconvenience?
Article Link: iPhone 7 and the Audiophile Case For Lightning Headphones
With the battery being thinned out to the thickness of paper... I charge my headphones while using the headphones far too often to converge those two ports.
You kind of shoot yourself in the foot with that second part, don't you. We're talking hardware here, physical methods of connection. Irrespective of what display technology is inside a TV, you are free to buy peripherals from any other manufacturer and connect them through a standard connector. Personally I have a Samsung TV, an ATV2, an LG BD player, a Google Chromestick, an Amazon Firestick, and an Onkyo Home theatre system. I can connect them all together because they all use the HDMI connector and standard EIAJ optical connector, even Apple. What is being suggested is the equivalent of Apple deciding on the ATV5 to have their own proprietary hardware connector that can only be connected to certain TVs either produced by Apple (as if that's ever really going to happen!) or where they have licensed the hardware design to a TV Manufacturer, thus limiting user choice.
I have four headphones worth over $500 each and they will last a decade or two. Why would buy new headphones because Apple doesn't want me to have compatibility between my Dac/amp, portable media player (gets louder) wii u, iPad, and iPhone? And all manufacturers have their own sound so what if Grado decides they aren't going to make lightning headphones?
While there are benefits of getting the DAC and Amp out of the iPhone case and using higher quality DACs/Amps. That can already be done, so that isn't very good reasoning for getting rid of the headphone output. The reasoning for getting rid of that port would be to save space in the iPhone or possibly for waterproofing the case. Audiophiles likes and dislikes have nothing to do with this or they would have a lossless tier on Apple Music and there would be lossless in the iTunes Store.
As a side note, Bluetooth isn't a suitable substitute to normal headphones because of the charged battery requirements.
Personally, I rarely listen to audio via the headphone port, so not a big deal for me. I prefer the lighting port for stationary listening now and Bluetooth for when I am active, so not much would change in my approach if they eliminated it, but I do understand the concerns.
As a side note, Bluetooth isn't a suitable substitute to normal headphones because of the charged battery requirements.
Personally, I rarely listen to audio via the headphone port, so not a big deal for me. I prefer the lighting port for stationary listening now and Bluetooth for when I am active, so not much would change in my approach if they eliminated it, but I do understand the concerns.
As has been reported, the benefit is sound quality. Apple is not stupid, they're not working to remove the 3.5mm headphone jack, just because. There is a reason, or likely several including sound quality and they of all companies are great at forcing the rest of the market to move ahead in quality and consumer experience. Heck, before the iPhone, most touch screen phones and digital assistants (like the iPaq from Compaq) had plastic screens. Sure they worked ok, for a period of time (I know, I had one), but after using the stylus on it in similar areas for a year, the plastic scratched to the point where I couldn't use it any more. The iPhone changed the market and everyone followed suit with glass screens.
More to the point of having to change accessories, we just went through the exact same change when Apple moved from the 30pin connector to the current Lightning connector. I've got a Bose Sounddock that stopped working even with the iPhone 4's 30 pin connector. I've since upgraded it to a BT enabled chip, so I can again use it with my iPhone 6s+, my iPad, and rMBP, but for a while, it sat in the closet unused. It's just what can happen with change. The thing with the purported removal of the 3.5mm port, is that everyone using a current iPhone, iPad, laptop, and their existing headphones can keep using them. So it's not like Apple is stealing away your ability to use your devices, but if you want the latest and greatest, you have to be prepared to change.
It's not adding anything new to the iPhone though because Lightning headphones have been available for the last 18 months.
Sound quality? I don't buy it, even as a died-in-the-wool audiophile who has been using lightning attached DAC's for years. There is nothing Apple can do with an external dac that they couldn't include inside the phone while maintaining compatibility with the billions of sets of headphones already in existence with the 3.5mm jack. Certainly nothing in a form factor anyone is going to want to carry around. And any improvement that might come for an average user is going to be basically impossible to detect. Certainly not a worthy tradeoff for the extra cost, bulk, and loss of convenience.
I don't doubt that they might well tell you it's about sound quality, but that'd be a cover for selling you additional hardware.
The connector has nothing to do with sound quality. The DAC does. If you want to argue that the built-in DAC is crap, fine. Are you trying to argue that multi thousand $$$ home audio setups with a 1/4" headphone jack produces crap sound because of the jack? And nothing guarantees that the DAC in a reasonably priced headset will be any better.
Then you use an adaptor, it's hardly rocket science.
Adaptor too much effort for you? Then throw away all the reasons you bought an iPhone in the first place over something as simple as an adaptor and migrate to a different brand. But you might want to consider that if this goes ahead and is a relative success other manufacturers could easily follow suit.
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If my current high quality headphone with mini-jack has no DAC, how will it work with a mini-jack to lightning adapter if Apple plans to eliminate the in-phone DAC along with the mini-jack?
Why would they keep a native DAC if the only audio connect to a headphone is the lightning or USB-C port? The output is digital!
If it is all about thinning, the (micro) 2.5 mm jack gives a full 1 mm shave. If it is about audio quality, I call BS because the compressed audio source is not going to sound better to human ears - lab tests ... may be yes. Not for actual listening.
Most households on earth that have a 90's onward car have their best audio system in the car - exceptions being the true audiophiles with home studios who only listen to music in that compartment.
Why would they keep a native DAC if the only audio connect to a headphone is the lightning or USB-C port? The output is digital!
If it is all about thinning, the (micro) 2.5 mm jack gives a full 1 mm shave. If it is about audio quality, I call BS because the compressed audio source is not going to sound better to human ears - lab tests ... may be yes. Not for actual listening.
Most households on earth that have a 90's onward car have their best audio system in the car - exceptions being the true audiophiles with home studios who only listen to music in that compartment.