iPhone 7 and the Audiophile Case For Lightning Headphones

[AsherN]

If my current high quality headphone with mini-jack has no DAC, how will it work with a mini-jack to lightning adapter if Apple plans to eliminate the in-phone DAC along with the mini-jack?

Why would they keep a native DAC if the only audio connect to a headphone is the lightning or USB-C port? The output is digital!

If it is all about thinning, the (micro) 2.5 mm jack gives a full 1 mm shave. If it is about audio quality, I call BS because the compressed audio source is not going to sound better to human ears - lab tests ... may be yes. Not for actual listening.

Most households on earth that have a 90's onward car have their best audio system in the car - exceptions being the true audiophiles with home studios who only listen to music in that compartment.

They can't eliminate the internal DAC as it also powers the speakers. But the Lightning connector only passes digital, so the adapter will need an integrated DAC. Of which there is no guarantee that it will be better than the internal. So while expensive Lightning headphones (available today) may produce better sound, a simple adapter likely will not.

Stupid move.

 

[Mac 128]

If my current high quality headphone with mini-jack has no DAC, how will it work with a mini-jack to lightning adapter if Apple plans to eliminate the in-phone DAC along with the mini-jack?

Why would they keep a native DAC if the only audio connect to a headphone is the lightning or USB-C port? The output is digital!

If it is all about thinning, the (micro) 2.5 mm jack gives a full 1 mm shave. If it is about audio quality, I call BS because the compressed audio source is not going to sound better to human ears - lab tests ... may be yes. Not for actual listening.

Most households on earth that have a 90's onward car have their best audio system in the car - exceptions being the true audiophiles with home studios who only listen to music in that compartment.

Apple has to maintain an internal DAC and amp for the internal speakers. You will need an external adapter attached to your current headphones with a built-in DAC and amp to convert Apple's digital signal.

As for the claims made around here that Apple or others will use inferior DACs and amps to save money, well that's just FUD.

Apple is currently in a market slump, with their competition gaining market share. Why would Apple remove something in use by many customers, albeit a likely minority, and offer something worse in its place? Especially if their competition wasn't also in the same position of having to ditch the 3.5mm Jack as well?

The sort answer is they won't.

See this post for why: #288

 

[Uofmtiger]

They can't eliminate the internal DAC as it also powers the speakers. But the Lightning connector only passes digital, so the adapter will need an integrated DAC. Of which there is no guarantee that it will be better than the internal. So while expensive Lightning headphones (available today) may produce better sound, a simple adapter likely will not.

Stupid move.

Since the can do whatever they want in the Lightning connector, is it possible that they could enable the port to put out analog in addition to digital? The adapter may just be a way to connect your regular phones. If you want to use a higher end setup, then DACs like the Dragonfly Red would still work to pull the digital signal.

 

[zhenya]

Apple has to maintain an internal DAC and amp for the internal speakers. You will need an external adapter attached to your current headphones with a built-in DAC and amp to convert Apple's digital signal.

As for the claims made around here that Apple or others will use inferior DACs and amps to save money, well that's just FUD.

Apple is currently in a market slump, with their competition gaining market share. Why would Apple remove something in use by many customers, albeit a likely minority, and offer something worse in its place? Especially if their competition wasn't also in the same position of having to ditch the 3.5mm Jack as well?

The sort answer is they won't.

See this post for why: #288

You really think that a minority of iPhone users use the headphone jack? I don't see it considering even in the airports and business class lounges I'm often in where people have the income to spend on this kind of thing, only a small percentage are using anything wireless.

Apple is in a slump. What better way to generate some new income than to invent a new market for expensive headphones, adapters, and the associated licensing fees? And there is NO WAY that an external adapter that costs less than $50 is going to sound better than what already comes out of the phone.

 

[Robstevo]

Apple has to maintain an internal DAC and amp for the internal speakers. You will need an external adapter attached to your current headphones with a built-in DAC and amp to convert Apple's digital signal.

As for the claims made around here that Apple or others will use inferior DACs and amps to save money, well that's just FUD.

Apple is currently in a market slump, with their competition gaining market share. Why would Apple remove something in use by many customers, albeit a likely minority, and offer something worse in its place? Especially if their competition wasn't also in the same position of having to ditch the 3.5mm Jack as well?

The sort answer is they won't.

See this post for why: #288

They won't have control over the DACs though, so it isn't FUD. They are doing this simply for monetary reasons. Every time someone makes a head phone for the brand new iPhone, they will get a nice slice of the pie for doing jack all.

 

[Mac 128]

the problem with this argument is that im pretty sure more than 50% of iphone users actually use the headphone jack

I'm "pretty sure" you're wrong. But I'm open to see your evidence for that claim. Mine would suggest much less than 50% use headphones, and of those who do, the included earbuds are the headphone of choice:

http://www.macnn.com/articles/16/01...o.ask.apple.shoppers.what.they.thought.131986

whats rubbing people the wrong way is Apple's justification to do so. there is no reason to remove it as they are not removing it to offer any clear benefit. removing the headphone jack doe not allow the phone to have a bigger battery or offer any real consumer benefit. the only thing it does is lessen the manufacturing cost and save apple some money which does nothing to the consumer. then allow them to make more proprietary dongles we never needed so they can make more money.

and i dont want to even hear apple say a single word about making the phone thinner. its already to thin we dont need another "bendgate" i wish they could just take the 5s design and just make it bigger....

So you're "pretty sure" that there is no reason to remove the headphone jack? Or you know for a fact?

Because I can imagine any number of perfectly valid reasons, including increasing the overall battery life. At the end of the day you simply ignore most of my argument to spread FUD. The core of my argument is that it's not just Apple that needs to drop the headphone jack, it's all of the Android competition as well ... and they're all waiting for Apple to do it, so they can grab some of their customers until they have to remove the headphone jack from their own flagship devices a year later. And why do they have to remove it? They need more space for other improvements and additions, without making the phone bigger. You don't seem to care how big your phone is, but considering the competition's flagship devices are essentially the same size or smaller than Apple's phones, the market would seem to prefer otherwise.

To ignore this as the likely reason Apple has to remove it suggests Apple is just 'spitting into the wind', or 'cutting off their nose despite their face', and 'failing to see the forest for the trees'. If the competition can keep up with Apple feature-for-feature while retaining the headphone jack, then Apple loses. And they deserve to lose, because then the only reason for it is a money grab to make up for their sagging market share with License fees, adapters, and saving pennies.

I've been with Apple since 1985, and they've done a lot bone headed moves, but this would be the most tone-deaf, bone-headed, self-destructive move they could make at this juncture in their history, if no valid reason exists. Despite that, you're "pretty sure" there isn't one; but I'm "pretty sure" there is.
[doublepost=1465504774][/doublepost]

They won't have control over the DACs though, so it isn't FUD. They are doing this simply for monetary reasons. Every time someone makes a head phone for the brand new iPhone, they will get a nice slice of the pie for doing jack all.

The DAC will be the least of the quality issues, anyway. But you really believe with increased demand and competition for digital headphones, that the manufacturers will actually churn out the lowest quality products they can and hope nobody notices? That's usually not how the marketplace works when it comes to quality. If a manufacturer makes a digital headphone, that sounds terrible, and their competition makes one that sounds better that's a little more expensive, then which one is the customer going to buy, assuming quality matters to them?

And more FUD is being spread with respect to Apple receiving a licensing fee for every headphone sold for the brand new iPhone. There don't have to be any Lightning only headphones. I would expect all digital headphones going forward after this move to have a removable cable, as many do now, including BT wireless ones. So the headphones themselves will be platform agnostic. Only inserting a Lightning cable for the iPhone will will earn Apple a share of the pie -- and that's only if a customer buys a MiFi cable. It's highly likely that Chinese knock off companies already churning out millions of unlicensed Lightning products that work flawlessly with iOS devices will likewise have Lightning cables that work with digital headphones. So Apple won't see a dime from that.

And then there's the ultimate FUD argument that Apple would shoot themselves in the foot at a critical time in its history by making a money grab for license fees for digital audio if they and their competition didn't need to. But I'm not going to try to convince you out of your cynical paranoia, just point out it makes absolutely no sense.

 

[jmgregory1]

Sound quality? I don't buy it, even as a died-in-the-wool audiophile who has been using lightning attached DAC's for years. There is nothing Apple can do with an external dac that they couldn't include inside the phone while maintaining compatibility with the billions of sets of headphones already in existence with the 3.5mm jack. Certainly nothing in a form factor anyone is going to want to carry around. And any improvement that might come for an average user is going to be basically impossible to detect. Certainly not a worthy tradeoff for the extra cost, bulk, and loss of convenience.

I don't doubt that they might well tell you it's about sound quality, but that'd be a cover for selling you additional hardware.

So now that Motorola just announced their 3.5mm port-less smartphone, can we all stop hating on Apple for doing what is going to be the future, whether you want it or not?

The battle may indeed play out as one of usb C vs Lightning, but we don't know whether Apple will stick to Lightning or shift again to a C port instead.

Again, I've not got a dog in the fight as I'm completely wireless for headphones. For music listening I'm using a pair of Plantronics Backbeat Pro's. They offer really great sound (Aptx codec), 300' roaming, active noise reduction and 24 hour battery life. They're a bit heavy and large, but are perfect for when I want to disappear into some music while sitting at my desk. And I can use them for phone calls too, although I'm normally on a separate headset.

 

[Mac 128]

So now that Motorola just announced their 3.5mm port-less smartphone, can we all stop hating on Apple for doing what is going to be the future, whether you want it or not?

The battle may indeed play out as one of usb C vs Lightning, but we don't know whether Apple will stick to Lightning or shift again to a C port instead.

Again, I've not got a dog in the fight as I'm completely wireless for headphones. For music listening I'm using a pair of Plantronics Backbeat Pro's. They offer really great sound (Aptx codec), 300' roaming, active noise reduction and 24 hour battery life. They're a bit heavy and large, but are perfect for when I want to disappear into some music while sitting at my desk. And I can use them for phone calls too, although I'm normally on a separate headset.

My thinking is this:

Lightning is not the replacement for 3.5mm headphone jack -- wireless is.

By the time USB-C actually gets a foot-hold in the industry, and becomes the mainstream standard for anything, Apple will have turned the corner with not only amazing wireless audio quality, but also wireless power solutions. Lightning is merely an intermediary convenience, not a replacement for anything.

Apple will improve wireless audio, they will improve battery life, and they will address all concerns about using digital tech, and over time, digital audio products will be as inexpensive as current analogue ones.

 

[jmgregory1]

My thinking is this:

Lightning is not the replacement for 3.5mm headphone jack -- wireless is.

By the time USB-C actually gets a foot-hold in the industry, and becomes the mainstream standard for anything, Apple will have turned the corner with not only amazing wireless audio quality, but also wireless power solutions. Lightning is merely an intermediary convenience, not a replacement for anything.

Apple will improve wireless audio, they will improve battery life, and they will address all concerns about using digital tech, and over time, digital audio products will be as inexpensive as current analogue ones.

I agree 100%. I've made the shift to wireless and wouldn't ever think of going back. Wires suck for all sorts of reasons wireless BT and AirPlay have done nothing but get better over the past 5 years.

 

[csglinux]

I’m sure Apple’s introduction of the iPhone 7 will come with a fanfare about improved audio quality and how it’s time to get rid of that nasty, 100-year old 3.5 mm jack socket. We can’t live in the past. Change has to come. Change makes things better if only we’re ready to embrace it, right?


In this case, no.


I cannot see any scenario in which such statements from Apple wouldn’t be outrageous lies and deceit. What’s sad is how many apparently intelligent, literate people, even on MacRumors, actually seem to believe Apple is doing the right thing by ditching the headphone jack.


Look at where Apple is headed with its business ethics. On August 1st, 2014, Apple acquired Beats - widely regarded as the manufacturer of the worst-sounding, lowest quality, over-priced garbage of any headphone company on the planet. Now, all rumors point to Apple omitting the standard 3.5 mm headphone socket in all future iPhones. My main hobby is audio, and I own headphones that cost more than any iPhone I've ever owned - and most of these have 3.5 mm jack plugs on the end of their cables. I also own several DACs, amps, current-mode amps, as well as electrostatic amps, one of which has an optional lightning input. Do these sound better than the iPhone’s internal DAC/amp? Yes, but the differences are mainly due to the (for example, electrostatic) headphones themselves. Differences between DACs and amps when used to power balanced armature or dynamic driver headphones are far smaller. Those differences become extremely marginal when using sensitive in-ear monitors (such as the Shure SE846 @ 114 dB/mW) and become totally irrelevant in even moderately noisy environments. People are not typically carrying around over-the-ear cans (like the Audeze EL-8) while they’re out and about. Portable audio needs to be just that - portable. All the external DACs and amps I own can already be used with current iPhones. I don’t need Apple to remove the 3.5 mm socket in order for me to use my KSE1500 direct from the lightning port. (I also don’t need Apple to remove the 3.5 mm socket in order for me to use Bluetooth.) Those that claim external DACs and amps make a huge difference to sound quality might be surprised if they actually subjected themselves to a few A/B tests using the type of headphones normally used with an iPhone, i.e., earbuds or in-ear monitors. In these cases, differences are marginal at best and come at the price of having to carry extra equipment with you. IMHO, not worth it. Sorry Apple, but I still want that choice.


The removal of the 3.5 mm socket should be troubling even if you don't care about audio. This a deeply cynical ploy that should leave no doubt that Apple cares far more about shareholder profit now than it does about producing "insanely great" products. I’m sure Apple expects to make a ton of money selling lightning-equipped Beats headphones and over-priced lightning-to-3.5 mm adapters. But even that shareholder profit is questionable since Apple first has to convince buyers the iPhone 7 is a worthy upgrade. Personally, I wouldn’t want an iPhone 7 if you paid me to take it. Ditto for the iPhone 8/9/10/etc., if they’re also missing the 3.5 mm headphone socket...

 

[calzon65]

From all the rumors, it seems the demise of the ubiquitous headphone jack may indeed happen ... and I think the idea stinks!

I don't give a hoot if the so called audiophiles drone on and on about the quality improvement, give me a break.

What's going to suck is the requirement to carry converters (if there will even be a converter). I love that I can use my Beats earbuds on my iPhone, iPad, and Dell laptop, and desktop computer ... "it just works".

Hundreds of millions, if not billions, of consumers around our planet benefit form one the few standards embraced by virtually all electronics manufactures from computers to cell phones. To abandon this consumer friendly standard for the quest of micronic (fine I made up a word) thickness reduction and cloaked in the excuse of improved audio quality is a horrible idea.

If Apple does this I have to say thank you for shattering the harmony of this standard we all have come to love.

 

[steve62388]

I cannot see any scenario in which such statements from Apple wouldn’t be outrageous lies and deceit.

Look at where Apple is headed with its business ethics. On August 1st, 2014, Apple acquired Beats - widely regarded as the manufacturer of the worst-sounding, lowest quality, over-priced garbage of any headphone company on the planet. Now, all rumors point to Apple omitting the standard 3.5 mm headphone socket in all future iPhones.

This a deeply cynical ploy that should leave no doubt that Apple cares far more about shareholder profit now than it does about producing "insanely great" products. I’m sure Apple expects to make a ton of money selling lightning-equipped Beats headphones and over-priced lightning-to-3.5 mm adapters. But even that shareholder profit is questionable since Apple first has to convince buyers the iPhone 7 is a worthy upgrade. Personally, I wouldn’t want an iPhone 7 if you paid me to take it. Ditto for the iPhone 8/9/10/etc., if they’re also missing the 3.5 mm headphone socket...

Come off it, look at all the hyperbole you used there. You're not being the slightest bit rational. And what planet do you live on to not realise that everything Apple does is for shareholder profit? They are legally compelled to maximise shareholder profit just as any publicly listed company is. It just so happens that happy customers tends to equal more products sold and greater profits, but that's not always the case.

When you buy a product you have to weigh up all the pros and cons. If a 3.5mm jack is soooo important to you then so be it, don't buy an iPhone without one. But would you really give up all the other advantages that an iPhone has just over one missing little crappy socket? If you would then you're obviously not a an iPhone fan (and many people aren't), but if that's the case you would probably jump ship at the slightest provocation anyway. People used to bleat on the same way about missing SD card slots but we're largely over that now.

Oh... and Motorola announced the Moto Z today and guess what? No headphone socket, so the grass isn't always greener. You're just going to have to get with the program whether you like it or not. Surely you see that the direction of travel is wireless and eventually all sockets everywhere are going bye-bye? It may not be with the iPhone 7 but it's happening whether you like it or not so you can be sad about it or get your big boy pants on and embrace the possibilities.

Sorry Apple, but I still want that choice.

Yeah well sometimes life is a compromise and you can't always get what you want.

 

[csglinux]

If a 3.5mm jack is soooo important to you then so be it, don't buy an iPhone without one.

I definitely won't.

But would you really give up all the other advantages that an iPhone has just over one missing little crappy socket?

Take a look at some of the premium Android phones that are available in 2016. A few years ago, I would have agreed with you. But now, in 2016, tell me what killer feature the iPhone has that I'm missing on the S7 Edge? (Please don't say 3D Touch - I never used it).

People used to bleat on the same way about missing SD card slots but we're largely over that now.

Actually, no we're not. I love the extra 200 Gb storage on my S7 Edge. The return of the microSD card slot was one of the features that propelled the S7 sales.

Oh... and Motorola announced the Moto Z today and guess what? No headphone socket, so the grass isn't always greener. You're just going to have to get with the program whether you like it or not.

Again, no I'm not. This is just one out of a zillion Android choices. There are plenty of Android phones that still come with 3.5 mm sockets. It will be interesting to see what happens with the Moto Z sales. USB C makes way more sense than a proprietary Lightning port, but I still suspect this Moto Z phone will crash and burn.

Surely you see that the direction of travel is wireless and eventually all sockets everywhere are going bye-bye?

Again, no. Not all of us want to drain our phones' batteries faster, have to remember to charge our headphones in addition to our cell phones, and then have to tolerate poorer audio quality as a result.

 

[steve62388]

I definitely won't.



Take a look at some of the premium Android phones that are available in 2016. A few years ago, I would have agreed with you. But now, in 2016, tell me what killer feature the iPhone has that I'm missing on the S7 Edge? (Please don't say 3D Touch - I never used it).



Actually, no we're not. I love the extra 200 Gb storage on my S7 Edge. The return of the microSD card slot was one of the features that propelled the S7 sales.



Again, no I'm not. This is just one out of a zillion Android choices. There are plenty of Android phones that still come with 3.5 mm sockets. It will be interesting to see what happens with the Moto Z sales. USB C makes way more sense than a proprietary Lightning port, but I still suspect this Moto Z phone will crash and burn.



Again, no. Not all of us want to drain our phones' batteries faster, have to remember to charge our headphones in addition to our cell phones, and then have to tolerate poorer audio quality as a result.

Why are you even here? You are clearly a fan of any phone other than an iPhone. Your 15 posts over 6 years suggests you're not really an enthusiast. That's fine, that's why there is choice in the world and it's a better place for it. But you seem to have taken a wrong turn somewhere looking for a different website. This is a Mac site and you're not likely to get much empathy except from those that are also in an irrational mood over losing a hundred year old piece of technology.

 

[csglinux]

Why are you even here?

Because I'm a long-time Apple product user (MacBook, iMac, Apple TV, iPad, every iPhone since the 3GS). However, that doesn't make me an iSheep. If Apple does something which is so clearly anti-consumer, I'm going to call them out on it.

 

[steve62388]

Because I'm a long-time Apple product user (MacBook, iMac, Apple TV, iPad, every iPhone since the 3GS). However, that doesn't make me an iSheep. If Apple does something which is so clearly anti-consumer, I'm going to call them out on it.

Apple products play best with other Apple products and a heavily invested user gets tied into the eco-system and software by spending their time and money. Lock-in happens with everything (mainframes, Windows, Linux, Android, whatever).

To my mind that makes your decision to abandon Apple even more non-sensical. You have obviously invested thousands into the Apple eco-system and you're willing to throw that all away over a 3.5mm jack. Surely that's foolish and you're not thinking clearly?

 

[csglinux]

Apple products play best with other Apple products and a heavily invested user gets tied into the eco-system and software by spending their time and money. Lock-in happens with everything (mainframes, Windows, Linux, Android, whatever).

To my mind that makes your decision to abandon Apple even more non-sensical. You have obviously invested thousands into the Apple eco-system and you're willing to throw that all away over a 3.5mm jack. Surely that's foolish and you're not thinking clearly?

It really isn't that hard to extricate yourself from the walled garden. Many quality third-party services like Dropbox, Evernote, Gmail, Life360, WhatsApp, Skype, Flickr, etc., work just fine cross-platform. To me, foolish behavior would be relying solely on one company; especially one that is stagnating and displaying increasingly shady business ethics.

 

[steve62388]

one company; especially one that is stagnating and displaying increasingly shady business ethics.

There you are using irrational hyperbole again that makes it impossible to take anything you say with any level of serious consideration. I have to assume you're having 'a moment' over the whole 3.5mm jack thing and will feel better about it in the morning or you will always feel this way because you can't quite balance out the realistic pros and cons in your mind. I understand you will miss it, but people shouldn't over react.

 

[Abazigal]

It really isn't that hard to extricate yourself from the walled garden. Many quality third-party services like Dropbox, Evernote, Gmail, Life360, WhatsApp, Skype, Flickr, etc., work just fine cross-platform. To me, foolish behavior would be relying solely on one company; especially one that is stagnating and displaying increasingly shady business ethics.

Seriously, if you want to switch platforms, just go ahead. No need to stand here preaching to everyone like you have been living in the Matrix all this while and have only just woken up.

Maybe the grass really is greener on the other side, maybe it isn't. Either way, you really won't know until you have given it a whirl and who knows, you just might end up appreciating the Apple ecosystem even more for it.

 

[AsherN]

I just moved from Android on a Nexus 5. The grass is not greener. It's not any yellower either. it's just different grass. I figure my 6S has a couple of years in it. I'll evaluate then. Based on what I see from both platform, i may very well go back to Android.

 

[Sevendaymelee]

The words "audiophile" and "headphones" always gives me a laugh lol.

 

[Loge]

Flat cables don't tangle

Saw someone on the train today with a flat cable; it was tangled like crazy.

 

[OllyW]

This Engadget article sums up what I feel about changing to a non-standardised headphone connector.

 

[oldmacs]

The removal of the 3.5 mm socket should be troubling even if you don't care about audio. This a deeply cynical ploy that should leave no doubt that Apple cares far more about shareholder profit now than it does about producing "insanely great" products. I’m sure Apple expects to make a ton of money selling lightning-equipped Beats headphones and over-priced lightning-to-3.5 mm adapters. But even that shareholder profit is questionable since Apple first has to convince buyers the iPhone 7 is a worthy upgrade. Personally, I wouldn’t want an iPhone 7 if you paid me to take it. Ditto for the iPhone 8/9/10/etc., if they’re also missing the 3.5 mm headphone socket...

I think its one of the worst decisions they've made. If they do this, they can't possible claim to be an environmentally friendly company - the waste from the production of adaptors that will be needed to fix problems introduced by Apple 'fixing' a problem that doesn't exist will be huge, as will the waste from 3.5mm headphones being dumped.

Luckily it looks like iMessage may go multi platform so that will make it easier to jump to an Android phone. I'm simply not interested in the stupidity of a proprietary headphone port, or the inconvenience of bluetooth (charging batteries, turning bluetooth on and off, increased battery drain, higher cost, interference etc) or dealing with adaptors (easily broken, easily lost, expensive, will need two adaptors for passthrough).

I hope the iPhone SE maintains the headphone port for a while to come.

 

[SvenSvenson]

Lightning is an Apple standard... you'll have to carry and adapter or cable to use head phones with other devices. What next will other companies adopt USB-C and now you have to device if you want to spend $250 for a lightning only headphone or a USB-C headphones that will only work with one set of devices. This is silly to push a standard that is only for one ecosystem... i'll pass, limitation like this is silly makes no sense for the average consumer.

but if your hi-end headphones ship with a 3.5mm cable and a optional Lighning and/or USB-C cable with (or without) integrated DAC...?
[doublepost=1465554244][/doublepost]Are there an Lightning-equipped headphone with a removable cable? Can you switch that cable for a 3.5mm one for another set of headphones? It's feasible that any 'normal' headphone with a removable cable could be easily upgraded to Lightning headphone with a new cable. Or for a potential increase in audio quality, an Lightning cable with integrated DAC.