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If apple is going to replace the 3.5mm, it really has to include features to convince the public it's worth it.

The things that would make me never look back at the 3.5mm

1)Wireless charging of headphones and of the phone (cables become a thing of the past)

2) Wireless headphones can stream higher quality audio

3) Noise canceling becomes standard

4) For those who want extreme quality, the lighting dock can provide the same experience of a 3.5mm

I think with these, Apple could walk away from the 3.5mm and those who complain would look silly.
 
If this rumor is true, then I can only say that I urge Apple to rethink the decision. Having to rely on a PROPRIETARY adapter to connect the audio output of my phone to every other audio product that I own would be a major hassle and turn off.

This change could only lose customers -- perhaps to the "tune" of millions of users. Just image the look on someone's face when they are told that they need to buy and/or carry an adapter in order to hook their phone to their existing headphones or stereo equipment. Apple can't really afford to lose market share, investors will not be happy even if Apple or Beats do add some revenue from additional accessory sales.

I guess the latter could be what Apple is planning for (make up the difference by forcing people to buy new headphones, etc.), which would be a sad commentary on Apple's overall design philosophy.

The only way they could make this even somewhat acceptable is if they include a 3.5mm audio adapter with the new phone and there would have to be a REALLY obvious benefit to converting the audio over to the Lightning connector (beyond simply making things thinner).

I'd not be nearly as against moving to USB-C for the audio output, since Apple is eventually going to have to ditch Lightning for USB-C anyway so why not "suffer" with this transition only once instead of twice in a matter of only a few years.
 
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All Apple must do is slap their logo on it. Having successfully convinced the masses that Apple knows best, they go largely unchallenged. History reveals their customers are also hypocritical, they say one thing prior to launch, then silently eat their words and reverse course to gush over the latest Apple product upon its release. No wonder Apple has all the money. Their mind control expertise is stunningly effective.
 
I would agree that the quality of the speakers is quite low, but I wouldn't say that the spatial separation is pointless. For media consumption, the lack of stereo speakers is somewhat obvious on the 6s plus. I've played plenty of games on Nintendo DS and 3DS - which are much smaller side to side - where the sound stage has been good enough that you could easily tell which side the sound was coming from. The stereo on that device really does add to the experience.
Hell yes 3DS rocks! Can't wait for the "NX"
 
There is a new $49 Square adapter that supports chip-and-PIN, and NFC. Smart small businesses are going to buy them because if they don't they'll be responsible for fraud-related chargebacks now.
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So? The port is over 100 years old, takes up a lot of space, and lets water in. Existing "waterproof" phones use kludgy rubber gaskets. This gives Apple room to add a stereo speaker, and I'm sure there will be an adapter available for when you want to use your old headphones. In the meantime, this might prod the development of better Bluetooth headphones. Let's cut the cord already.

I agree on cutting the cord, but only if apple uses the extra space of the dropped headphone jack for more advanced hw and slimming the iphone.
But no i hear they are using this extra space for a second stereo speaker?
If that' s the case give me back the headphone jack... Don' t care about having an extra speaker....
 
No headphone jack, no iphone 7 for me or all of us that bought high end headphones with 3.5mm headphone jack.
I hate adapters so no to that to. This is a really bad idea!!!!!!!!
And this idiot idea about thinner and thinner phones is MAD!
Same. Using an adapter is just cumbersome. I replace my phones as they break. Whoever still lets me use my good headphones when my iPhone 6 dies gets my money.
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I would agree that the quality of the speakers is quite low, but I wouldn't say that the spatial separation is pointless. For media consumption, the lack of stereo speakers is somewhat obvious on the 6s plus. I've played plenty of games on Nintendo DS and 3DS - which are much smaller side to side - where the sound stage has been good enough that you could easily tell which side the sound was coming from. The stereo on that device really does add to the experience.

Have you tried the faux "surround sound" mode on the DS? It's a shame it was dropped in later games, it works amazing in Mario 64 DS! Two tiny speakers inches apart, yet it could put you in a soundscape where waterfalls are behind you and birds above.

Puzzles me that Apple have never bothered to put in stereo speakers on their phones.
 
I dont see a problem in having an adapter constantly hooked to my headphones. But i do see a problem if i'm somewhere out and i dont have my headphones with me and i'd like to connect my phone to lets say AUX in a car or anywhere else. The same as EU did with unified charging cables standards, they should do it with the new "3.5" standard.
 
6S Plus is a different issue. There is plenty of room inside the 6S Plus to do anything they want, including higher quality speakers. That's why it has mechanical optical stabilization, and over 1/3 better battery life. They could leave the 3.5mm jack in the Plus, but to be consistent they're likely not going to, especially if what you suggest is true and adding a second speaker does make that much difference. But they can't do this on the 6S, and especially not the "6c".

Not being a gamer, I can't begin to understand how spatial aural separation makes a bit of difference to playing a game, unless it's a game where you have to be able to hear whether something is coming from the left or right, in which case, being able to distinguish that on such a tiny device is probably not going to be easy anyway. In which case I'd expect a serious gamer would be using headphones to make the experience more immersive anyway.

That said, if that's the rationale for adding stereo separation to such a low quality audio experience, I have to say I'm a little concerned that the gamer market is now what's driving the iPhone platform features, and not the average consumer, or business and Enterprise.

I would say that the average consumer would tell a difference in their movie/video experience. I use the DS as an example of a device that has spacial separation -not as a reason why gamers specifically should have it. I'd say that a better experience is a good thing no matter what it comes from. And saying that you can't understand such a simple concept is being willfully ignorant.

Games are a part of the average consumer's life now as well. I'm sure you probably have played solitaire, chess, candy crush or something like that. It isn't for basement-dwellers anymore. Look at the top money makers on the App Store. They're mostly games or media services. Both things that could benefit.

Honestly, it was Apple's early decision to try to stop people from gaming on their macs around the time John Scully was CEO that bit them in the butt later because IT people and "my kid who knows computers better than I do" who both play games are usually a big part of decision making and would choose the more gaming-capable PC for their business rather than the straight-suit boring Mac. I would argue that if Apple ignored gaming completely, they would go the way of Blackberry.

They can't charge licensing fees on Blue Tooth or Wifi either.
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Actually they do charge for Wi-Fi licensing with AirPlay.
 
I still think Apple has NOT finalized the design of the iPhone 7. Apple itself may be testing prototypes with and without the 3.5 mm headphone connector, given Apple currently builds thinner devices that still accommodate the 3.5 mm headphone connector with the current iPod nano and iPod touch models.

It would not surprise me that Apple decides to keep the 3.5 mm headphone connector, given today's economic realities (I'm sure Apple has crunched the numbers of possible loss of sales if they decide to drop the headphone connector).
 
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I would say that the average consumer would tell a difference in their movie/video experience. I use the DS as an example of a device that has spacial separation -not as a reason why gamers specifically should have it. I'd say that a better experience is a good thing no matter what it comes from. And saying that you can't understand such a simple concept is being willfully ignorant.

Games are a part of the average consumer's life now as well. I'm sure you probably have played solitaire, chess, candy crush or something like that. It isn't for basement-dwellers anymore.

First, solitaire doesn't require discreet stereo separation to effectively play it. Second, movies or games, why are people playing them over the poor quality speakers built into the phone? I don't agree that the preferred method of listening to game and movie audio is over an inferior built-in speaker, nor do I believe that adding stereo particularly enhances that already poor experience in any significant way, unless as I stated earlier, the game requires pinpoint sonic spatial accuracy to lay, in which case I can hardly imagine why anyone would not opt for headphones to play it on a phone. There's simply no use case scenario where stereo on a device as small as an iPhone is a reasonable addition when doing so potentially sacrifices battery capacity, among other things.

But the replacement must be something that a) provides equal or better audio quality, and b) the entire INDUSTRY agrees on.

Since when does the entire industry ever agree on anything? It's usually someone like Apple that drives adoption of one thing or another.

No, I was saying it isn't redundant as it's still widely used. I'm not a betting man but I would confidently place a wager that loads more people plug their headphones into the 3.5mm jack than those who listen through the Lightning port and over Bluetooth combined.

I said "redundant" not obsolete. Of course that's the case. However, the 3.5mm jack does only one thing. Lightning, Wifi & BlueTooth do multiple things. If Apple needs space, they eliminate the thing that's taking up the most space and offering the least service, so long as what that thing does is duplicated elsewhere on the device.

Don't you think ditching the 3.5mm jack and sticking with Lightning (and not adopting USB-C) is going to be a mess? What is the solution for people who use the 3.5mm jack on other devices (laptops, desktops, Android tablets, etc)? An adapter? That doesn't sound like a good solution.

Think this through. Even if USB-C becomes a standard, it will take a decade before even someone with a pair of USB-C headphones won't have to worry about carrying around an adapter. So yes, using a pair of Lightning headphones on a non-compatible device will require an adapter.

I know you are saying USB-C takes up more internal space but it's the obvious solution IMO with respect to adapting a universal headphone port for the future. The alternative is just going to be a headache for countless consumers.

Used on what, the fact that USB-C is proclaimed the undisputed universal standard for all time? Even if USB-C becomes the standard tomorrow, in 5 years it could change to something else, and those USB-C headphones will suddenly need an adapter to the next "standard". The confusion will be if someone plugs a desktop USB-C accessory into an iPhone and damages one or both.

Aren't there other devices (SquarePay adapter) that also use the headphone port?

Sure enough, and they will be able to use the adapter, likely provided for free by the card reader company or respective bank. And if they are simply a mag stripe reader, they will ned to be upgraded this year anyway, at which time they can upgrade to Lightning technology.

I'm not convinced that Apple is really going to remove the headphone jack just yet. If they were, I'd expect to see Apple selling headphones with Lightning connectors by now. On the Apple website they are selling one set, and it's a $720 set from Audeze.

And what exactly do you think would drive this market? The prospect of Apple potentially making this move? As long as the average customer can buy a $3 pair of 3.5mm headphones at any drug store, there's not going to be a demand for anything more expensive. And without demand, the price isn't going to drop.

It's one thing to remove legacy features when they are obsolete. The floppy drive had been replaced by CDs. CDs were replaced by digital downloads. Apple didn't introduce these new technologies. They just adapted to them and abandoned the technologies they replaced faster than anyone else, but they replaced them with already established standards. They didn't remove the floppy drive and then tell everybody to use their new proprietary portable storage system.

You either weren't around, or are revising history in your own mind. Apple remove the floppy drive and replaced it with nothing. It was 4 years before they offered another removable storage option on the iMac. A rewritable CD-RW was prohibitively expensive for most, not just the hardware, but the physical media as well. And it was buggy. I ruined hundreds of dollars worth of disks in those early days. Likewise for USB, there were no products available, and what there were were very expensive. There were exactly two USB products available when the iMac launched, a buggy printer, and an incredibly popular, yet hard to get $130 USB floppy drive as the manufacturer couldn't keep up with demand!

And Apple isn't removing the 3.5mm jack and telling everybody to use their proprietary system. BT is not proprietary. And the future of audio is wireless. This move is exactly what I would expect from Apple, based on every technology they've removed from their products in the past.
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I still think Apple has NOT finalized the design of the iPhone 7. Apple itself may be testing prototypes with and without the 3.5 mm headphone connector, given Apple currently builds thinner devices that still accommodate the 3.5 mm headphone connector with the current iPod nano and iPod touch models.

Of course Apple has finalized the design of the iPhone 7. Probably months ago. But, what I would expect Apple to have done is finalize a board with a 3.5mm jack and one without -- depending on what technology they are adding to the 7 that utilizes the reclaimed space. In which case Apple could probably switch the model they offer up until the month before they start production.

This is why I would expect the new 4" model to drop the jack, not only to maximize space for 6S components inside an already small case, but also to gauge reception in the market. Customers who have a pent up desire for a new 4" phone are likely to buy it regardless so it's the perfect model to test it on before launching the flagship model.

At a minimum, Apple might make the decision to leave the headphone jack on the Plus model since internal space is not as restricted, and wait for the competition to fold before removing it across all their product lines.

But I agree it's a decision they can wait a few more months to make.
 
Since when does the entire industry ever agree on anything? It's usually someone like Apple that drives adoption of one thing or another.
There is always someone whose first to the market with a standard like USB, WiFi, Bluetooth, or DisplayPort, but they are still industry standards. Lightning is not an industry standard. It is completely proprietary.
 
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There is always someone whose first to the market with a standard like USB, WiFi, Bluetooth, or DisplayPort, but they are still industry standards. Lightning is not an industry standard. It is completely proprietary.

Lightning is not replacing the 3.5mm jack. Doesn't matter if it's proprietary or not.
 
Nope. Don't connect a wired device. That's your choice. Not Apple's.
Once again, it doesn't matter how good you make the headset itself, BT compression ensures the sound quality will be inferior to a wired set. (Oh, and it's yet another thing you're going to have to keep ******** charged every day!)

Look, we're not going to agree on this. You think Apple is being progressive. I think they're being greedy and incompetently short-sighted. (Presuming there is even any truth to these rumors)
 
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Think this through. Even if USB-C becomes a standard, it will take a decade before even someone with a pair of USB-C headphones won't have to worry about carrying around an adapter. So yes, using a pair of Lightning headphones on a non-compatible device will require an adapter.

Used on what, the fact that USB-C is proclaimed the undisputed universal standard for all time? Even if USB-C becomes the standard tomorrow, in 5 years it could change to something else, and those USB-C headphones will suddenly need an adapter to the next "standard". The confusion will be if someone plugs a desktop USB-C accessory into an iPhone and damages one or both.

This is why I would expect the new 4" model to drop the jack, not only to maximize space for 6S components inside an already small case, but also to gauge reception in the market. Customers who have a pent up desire for a new 4" phone are likely to buy it regardless so it's the perfect model to test it on before launching the flagship model.

At a minimum, Apple might make the decision to leave the headphone jack on the Plus model since internal space is not as restricted, and wait for the competition to fold before removing it across all their product lines.

Where are you coming up with this decade figure?

The standard won't change in 5 years. Most likely whatever comes after USB-C will be compatible with USB-C. I also don't think that's a reason to refrain from making an obvious step forward towards progress.

I say there is zero chance the 4" iPhone will ditch the headphone jack. If the headphone jack is ditched it will be with the iPhone 7/7S.

Also absolutely no chance they would ditch the headphone jack on the 7 but not the 7 Plus. When Apple finally does ditch the headphone jack they will do so across the flagship line.

Apple has a real mess on their hands if their solution is adapters. It will frustrate their users who will complain about having to make sure they have an adapter for all laptops and Android/Amazon tablets. USB-C is the obvious solution.
 
Where are you coming up with this decade figure?

So you think if all new audio products drop the 3.5mm jack, and adopt a universal standard like USB-C to connect audio over the next year, that 100% of all consumers will replace their legacy 3.5mm, non-USB-C equipment at the same time? You think even 50% of all consumers will replace their legacy equipment in 5 years? Even USB-A still requires multiple adapters 17 years after it became a standard.

The standard won't change in 5 years. Most likely whatever comes after USB-C will be compatible with USB-C. I also don't think that's a reason to refrain from making an obvious step forward towards progress.

Of course it will be... Using and ADAPTER! so why do I want to invest in a set of headphones that could conceivably last 30 years which may require an adapter after 5 years? Technology is moving too fast for anyone to proclaim that something that's not even a standard at the moment, will be the standard for all time.

Apple has a real mess on their hands if their solution is adapters. It will frustrate their users who will complain about having to make sure they have an adapter for all laptops and Android/Amazon tablets. USB-C is the obvious solution.

Not unless Android and the rest also force their customers to buy a USB-C adapter to use with their old headphones, or one to use with their legacy devices. Oh right, you think all of these people are going to throw all of their legacy devices away and buy all brand new devices with USB-C which is going to become the standard tomorrow.

Adapters in general are going to frustrate some customers, not the different connectors. We already live in a world full of incompatible USB connectors and adapters, to say nothing of any other connectors.

For Apple, it's one more way to lock a customer into the Apple ecosystem given that all other manufacturers likely follow suit, standard or no. If this happens, everyone uses adapters for at least 10 years whether USB-c becomes the standard to end all standards or not -- which it won't.

Add to that the fact that Apple is not positioning Lightning as the replacement for 3.5mm jacks. Wireless audio is the replacement. So no need to adopt a wired standard at all, in 5 years I expect a new wireless audio standard to set the new bar for everyone. And Apple has always marketed to those who live on the bleeding edge of technology. For all others there are adapters and always have been. For those who don't want adapters, there's Microsoft, and the rest. Nothing new about this move should it materialize.
 
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I think they should disband the headphone jack all together and just go with bluetooth.

  • We already have bluetooth.
  • I call BS 3.5mm jack removal=waterproof. Sony Xperia ZR phones have them and are completely waterproof.
  • Thinner phone=less or same battery life, regardless of 3.5mm jack or not
  • Having to use an adapter isn't just an inconvenience. It's a totally irritating feature that would cause me to buy a different phone., i.e. travel *oh forget silly little iphone jack adapter cant listen to music now. nothing to be done
 
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This time:
Apple is trying to reclaim over 240 cubic mm of space inside the phone from a redundant port that only provides one function.

A few weeks ago:
And why can't they have both? Because in part what's motivating them to remove it at this juncture is to free up over 184 cubic mm of internal space presently occupied by the redundant 3.5mm single purpose jack.

It seems like your 3.5 mm Headphone Jack is growing! :eek:

With that rate your headphone jack will have taken over the inside of your phone completely in no time. It might even be the reason why your camera lens was pushed outwards.

Maybe your headphone jack is pregnant and in a few months you have an additional 2.5 mm submini connector. :p
 
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So you think if all new audio products drop the 3.5mm jack, and adopt a universal standard like USB-C to connect audio over the next year, that 100% of all consumers will replace their legacy 3.5mm, non-USB-C equipment at the same time? You think even 50% of all consumers will replace their legacy equipment in 5 years? Even USB-A still requires multiple adapters 17 years after it became a standard.



Of course it will be... Using and ADAPTER! so why do I want to invest in a set of headphones that could conceivably last 30 years which may require an adapter after 5 years? Technology is moving too fast for anyone to proclaim that something that's not even a standard at the moment, will be the standard for all time.

Not unless Android and the rest also force their customers to buy a USB-C adapter to use with their old headphones, or one to use with their legacy devices. Oh right, you think all of these people are going to throw all of their legacy devices away and buy all brand new devices with USB-C which is going to become the standard tomorrow.

Adapters in general are going to frustrate some customers, not the different connectors. We already live in a world full of incompatible USB connectors and adapters, to say nothing of any other connectors.

For Apple, it's one more way to lock a customer into the Apple ecosystem given that all other manufacturers likely follow suit, standard or no. If this happens, everyone uses adapters for at least 10 years whether USB-c becomes the standard to end all standards or not -- which it won't.

Add to that the fact that Apple is not positioning Lightning as the replacement for 3.5mm jacks. Wireless audio is the replacement. So no need to adopt a wired standard at all, in 5 years I expect a new wireless audio standard to set the new bar for everyone. And Apple has always marketed to those who live on the bleeding edge of technology. For all others there are adapters and always have been. For those who don't want adapters, there's Microsoft, and the rest. Nothing new about this move should it materialize.

Look, if you want to have a back and forth with me, fine. But please don't be sarcastic and jump to these conclusions that I'm simply not proclaiming. It's a waste of both of our times if you are going to bother replying in such a manner.

I am not saying that USB-C will be an immediate change across the board. But if you are going to start ditching the headphone jack on smartphones then you have to have an answer. All you are doing is saying that USB-C is not the answer yet you have no viable alternative other than an adapter. And I'm telling you that is a not a good solution. A proper answer is to provide consumers with an alternative that works across platforms. That's logical.

Who uses a set of headphones for 30 years? I never said USB-C will be an everlasting standard. What I did actually say is that whatever comes after USB-C will be compatible with USB-C. Meaning the money you put into anything USB-C compatible will also work with the next standard, whenever that is.

I think the future of Android devices is to ditch the headphone jack and use USB-C. The OnePlus 2, Nexus 5X, Nexus 6P, and Asus ZenPad S 8.0 already have adopted USB-C.

How is Apple locking in any consumers by sticking with Lightning? All they are doing is forcing their consumers to use an adapter, which like I already said is going to be such a headache when your other devices already have a USB-C port.

Wireless audio the replacement? Seriously? Do you realize how poor the battery life is on all bluetooth headphones? My Bluebuds X's max out at 5 hours on a single charge. That isn't going to last me on a heavy day of travel. While I do believe in the future of wireless audio to say THAT is any sort of replacement is ridiculous.
 
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