iPhone 7 Water resistant but water damage not covered - ********* at Genius Bar?

[JayLenochiniMac]

Yes, AC+ covers water damage as on of the two $99 replacements since it is not a normal warranty repair.



http://www.apple.com/legal/sales-support/applecare/applecareplus/docs/applecareplusnaen.html

No, it's not a given that you'd have to pay the $99 deductible in case of water damage in the iPhone 7/7+. If it fails within the scope of the IP67 rating (due to a manufacturing defect), they'll swap it out under the standard warranty and not charge you the $99 AC+ deductible.

They've been swapping out water-damaged IPX7-rated Apple Watch under the standard warranty too.

 

[legioxi]

No, it's not a given that you'd have to pay the $99 deductible in case of water damage in the iPhone 7/7+. If it fails within the scope of the IP67 rating (due to a manufacturing defect), they'll swap it out under the standard warranty and not charge you the $99 AC+ deductible.

They've been swapping out water-damaged IPX7-rated Apple Watch under the standard warranty too.

They specifically say it won't be covered with the iPhone 7:

iPhone 7 and iPhone 7 Plus are splash, water, and dust resistant and were tested under controlled laboratory conditions with a rating of IP67 under IEC standard 60529. Splash, water, and dust resistance are not permanent conditions and resistance might decrease as a result of normal wear. Do not attempt to charge a wet iPhone; refer to the user guide for cleaning and drying instructions. Liquid damage not covered under warranty.

http://www.apple.com/iphone-7/

Until someone has one, damages it with water and has Apple cover it, I'll take the written word on their site for now.

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

They specifically say it won't be covered with the iPhone 7:



http://www.apple.com/iphone-7/

Until someone has one, damages it with water and has Apple cover it, I'll take the written word on their site for now.

Doesn't matter what they say in their disclaimer. If they advertise and sell the iPhone 7/7+ with a specific IP rating (which is an internationally accepted legal standard), then they're legally obligated to warranty water-damaged iPhone 7/7+ as a result of water ingress within the scope of the IP67 rating.

Remember they said in their disclaimer that the Apple Watch is not to be submerged, yet they've been swapping out water-damaged AWs under the standard warranty. That's because they cannot legally deny a warranty claim made within the standard.

It's just a scare tactic and it's working, as you're taking the written word on their site over what's legal/not legal for them to do.

 

[geoff5093]

Think of it this way, phones are often advertised as being scratch resistant or shatter resistant (some Android phones I know are), but if you scratch or crack your phone it's not covered. They are saying it can resist water, not that it's water proof, hence there is no guarantee that it won't get damaged. Just like there's no guarantee a scratch resistant display won't get scratched.

 

[legioxi]

It's just a scare tactic and it's working, as you're taking the written word on their site over what's legal/not legal for them to do.

Maybe for those without AC+. But if you have AC+ and take it in for repair, if it is covered under the normal warranty they'll repair it free still and not use up one of the two replacements. I've had that happen with an iPad, expected to pay for the repair but I didn't. If that is the case I'll be pleasantly surprised but I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

Think of it this way, phones are often advertised as being scratch resistant or shatter resistant (some Android phones I know are), but if you scratch or crack your phone it's not covered. They are saying it can resist water, not that it's water proof, hence there is no guarantee that it won't get damaged. Just like there's no guarantee a scratch resistant display won't get scratched.

That's because there's no standard for scratch/shatter resistance like IP ratings. As a result, they can advertise it as scratch- and shatter-resistant and still deny a warranty claim if you split it open. In contrast, they cannot legally advertise and sell a product with a specific IP rating and deny a warranty claim made within a legally defined standard.

 

[geoff5093]

That's because there's no standard for scratch/shatter resistance like IP ratings. As a result, they can advertise it as scratch- and shatter-resistant and still deny a warranty claim if you split it open. In contrast, they cannot legally advertise and sell a product with a specific IP rating and deny a warranty claim made within a legally defined standard.

These are the definitions of water resistant and water proof:

Water-resistant: able to resist the penetration of water to some degree but not entirely
Waterproof: impervious to water

Which is true since there are very strict scenarios in which the iPhone 7 can be exposed to water. Only if the water was 1m deep or less, and only if the phone was exposed for 30 minutes or less. There is no way for the customer to prove it failed under these scenarios.

EDIT: I did some quick searching for regular watch warranties, and most do warranty watches that have water damage if the watch was water resistant. Although to be fair, most watches have an IP rating to several hundred meters.

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

These are the definitions of water resistant and water proof:

Water-resistant: able to resist the penetration of water to some degree but not entirely
Waterproof: impervious to water

Which is true since there are very strict scenarios in which the iPhone 7 can be exposed to water. Only if the water was 1m deep or less, and only if the phone was exposed for 30 minutes or less. There is no way for the customer to prove it failed under these scenarios.

EDIT: I did some quick searching for regular watch warranties, and most do warranty watches that have water damage if the watch was water resistant. Although to be fair, most watches have an IP rating to several hundred meters.

There's no such thing as a "waterproof" watch. Waterproofness can only be to a defined standard. Also, you'll find that they don't call it "waterproof" but "water resistance" in reference to all the IP ratings, even for diver watches.

Unless they have some kind of trick up their sleeve, there's also no way that Apple can prove that it did not fail within the scope of the IP67 rating. Hence they'll take the customers' words for it and swap out water-damaged iPhone 7/7+ under the standard warranty, as they've been doing all along for water-damaged AWs (as long as the customer doesn't let the cat out of the bag that they took it beyond the scope of the advertised IP rating).

 

[fischersd]

Exactly. They have no way to proof that the water damage is due to misuse instead of defections

You don't know that - you're guessing.
Let's not forget that there's a barometer in the iPhone. It may be as simple as a software tweak to also be able to measure water pressure. So, if your phone registers water pressure (and/or duration) exceeding IPX7, you're cooked.
(then you better have additional coverage, such as AC+).

Considering how quickly everyone ran to swimming and showering with their AW1's (when it stated in the user guide to not do that), can you blame Apple for putting that in the warranty that it's not covered? How many idiots do you think would quickly jump into their pools with their new iPhone7+ to try their hand at underwater photography? (even though the screen won't work)

Apple will be reasonable about this. People that blatantly exceed the rating of the iPhone 7's may be in for some additional charges.

Edit: Really wish people would take the phrase "waterproof" out of their vocabulary when talking about any electronics. NOTHING is. A lump of gold or lead could be said to be waterproof (impervious to water, regardless of depth).

 

[Jayson A]

First adopters run the risk with every new design from the Apple labs. The 3g case cracks, the 4's antenna losing signal, the 5's badly chaffing/chipping chamfers, the 6's bending issue, and so on...

You have kind of answered your own question by asking about a 'defective' design and Apple replacing your phone in the event of water damage.

Did you see the tests run on the Apple watch to replicate a swimmer's motion through the water to several hundred thousand strokes?

iPhone more than likely had its own set of threshold tests done and if you do nothing more than splash some water on the phone or get caught in the rain, it's hard to comprehend the phone's water resistance being compromised.

I guess it's a bad thing to buy anything without an S after it. Interesting.

 

[omgitscro]

OP: You're not entitled to a device repair or replacement if you get the device wet. All Apple is advertising is that your phone will likely continue to work normally if you accidentally splash a small amount of water on it.

As soon as you try to make a phone call in the rain, the water detectors will be triggered, and you will no longer have any right to have the device repaired under warranty. In all likelihood, the device will continue to work (by the way the 7 does not appear to have revolutionary waterproofing that the 6s didn't already have—the 6s could already withstand being submerged for extended periods while on). However, you are taking this risk knowing that the warranty cannot apply to you, nor should it, since like you said, Apple has no way of knowing what you did with the phone to get it wet.

It's really as simple as that. You should not feel entitled to anything beyond this—there is no reason to.

Apple's advertising applies to the functionality of the device, not its own liability in case of your own accident. If you want accident protection, you get AppleCare+ and pay the $100 deductible for a device replacement, same as always. With the new waterproofing features, your chances of having to pay this deductible have decreased somewhat, but Apple's liability has not.

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

Let's not forget that there's a barometer in the iPhone. It may be as simple as a software tweak to also be able to measure water pressure. So, if your phone registers water pressure (and/or duration) exceeding IPX7, you're cooked.
(then you better have additional coverage, such as AC+).

This might very well be the trick Apple has up their sleeve to determine whether the iPhone 7/7+ incurs water ingress within the scope of the IP67 rating (in which case they'll replace it under the standard warranty, as it's obviously due to a manufacturing defect) or outside of it (in which case the customer will be on the hook for the $99 AC+ deductible, or worse, nullification of the standard warranty if they don't have AC+).

We know they have no such sensors in the AW, hence they're replacing all water-damaged AWs under the standard warranty.
[doublepost=1473698307][/doublepost]

OP: You're not entitled to a device repair or replacement if you get the device wet. All Apple is advertising is that your phone will likely continue to work normally if you accidentally splash a small amount of water on it.

As soon as you try to make a phone call in the rain, the water detectors will be triggered, and you will no longer have any right to have the device repaired under warranty. In all likelihood, the device will continue to work (by the way the 7 does not appear to have revolutionary waterproofing that the 6s didn't already have—the 6s could already withstand being submerged for extended periods while on). However, you are taking this risk knowing that the warranty cannot apply to you, nor should it, since like you said, Apple has no way of knowing what you did with the phone to get it wet.

It's really as simple as that. You should not feel entitled to anything beyond this—there is no reason to.

Apple's advertising applies to the functionality of the device, not its own liability in case of your own accident. If you want accident protection, you get AppleCare+ and pay the $100 deductible for a device replacement, same as always. With the new waterproofing features, your chances of having to pay this deductible have decreased somewhat, but Apple's liability has not.

This is false. Stop spreading false information.

 

[ag29]

When that happens, here's what you do.

First step: Say Ok thank you and stop talking to that Genius Rep

Now you have a couple options

1. Go to a different Apple Store.
2. Speak to a different Genius Rep

I had a water damaged phone out of warranty and the 2nd genius rep replaced it for free, while the first one said no way.

 

[omgitscro]

This might very well be the trick Apple has up their sleeve to determine whether the iPhone 7/7+ incurs water ingress within the scope of the IP67 rating (in which case they'll replace it under the standard warranty, as it's obviously due to a manufacturing defect) or outside of it (in which case the customer will be on the hook for the $99 AC+ deductible, or worse, nullification of the standard warranty if they don't have AC+).

We know they have no such sensors in the AW, hence they're replacing all water-damaged AWs under the standard warranty.
[doublepost=1473698307][/doublepost]

This is false. Stop spreading false information.

You're entitled to disagree with the premise, but the reality is as clear as day. Apple states this policy on the iPhone page. Water damage is not covered, same as always.

 

[0000757]

You mean don't use a feature you are buying the phone for?
That's quite some logic you got there

Yeah but it's not a feature to be going underwater and taking selfies, or to leave sitting in a cup full of water for hours. The intended feature is that if it gets wet (i.e. falls in a puddle), and you clean up the device quickly (i.e. don't let it sit there), it protects against that.

 

[caelius]

All Apple is advertising is that your phone will likely continue to work normally if you accidentally splash a small amount of water on it.

Yeah, no, but that's not what IP67 certification stands for. The phone really has to survive quite a bit more than "a small amount of water splashed on it".

 

[Steve686]

No, it's not a given that you'd have to pay the $99 deductible in case of water damage in the iPhone 7/7+. If it fails within the scope of the IP67 rating (due to a manufacturing defect), they'll swap it out under the standard warranty and not charge you the $99 AC+ deductible.

They've been swapping out water-damaged IPX7-rated Apple Watch under the standard warranty too.

Correct.

I've had my Watch replaced without a hit to my Apple Care.

You would HAVE to think any water damage caused by casual contact or a quick dunk in the pool would be attributable to a defective sealant.

 

[omgitscro]

Yeah, no, but that's not what IP67 certification stands for. The phone really has to survive quite a bit more than "a small amount of water splashed on it".

I'm not going to condone putting your phone in a pool. As I mentioned in the quoted post, the iPhone 6s already has most or all of the waterproofing that the iPhone 7 has. It can withstand full submersion for several minutes. And same as with the iPhone 7, water damage is not covered under warranty, whether it was caused by rain, being pushed into a pool, or swimming.

 

[caelius]

(...)water damage is not covered under warranty, whether it was caused by rain, being pushed into a pool, or swimming.

We'll see. Putting a disclaimer on their page and actually not taking care of iPhones suffering water damage are two different things. Apple, as I know it, is quite accommodating when it comes to customer support. And when it doubt, they'll most definitely just repair it under warranty.

 

[The Game 161]

Think it depends how it happened either way doubt it will get water damage

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

You're entitled to disagree with the premise, but the reality is as clear as day. Apple states this policy on the iPhone page. Water damage is not covered, same as always.

The reality is Apple cannot legally advertise and sell an iPhone with an IP rating (held to an internationally defined legal standard) and deny a warranty claim that falls within the scope of the advertised IP rating. What they state in the disclaimer is irrelevant.

Water damage was previously not covered because they didn't advertise and sell the iPhone with a defined IP rating.

 

[Steve686]

The reality is Apple cannot legally advertise and sell an iPhone with an IP rating (held to an internationally defined legal standard) and deny a warranty claim that falls within the scope of the advertised IP rating. What they state in the disclaimer is irrelevant.

Water damage was previously not covered because they didn't advertise and sell the iPhone with a defined IP rating.

I'm sure Apple will handle this 'first water resistant iPhone' issue well when it arises. I, myself, have zero worries about the issue since my water damaged watch was replaced for free with no issue.

 

[Nanotyrns]

First adopters run the risk with every new design from the Apple labs. The 3g case cracks, the 4's antenna losing signal, the 5's badly chaffing/chipping chamfers, the 6's bending issue, and so on...

You have kind of answered your own question by asking about a 'defective' design and Apple replacing your phone in the event of water damage.

Did you see the tests run on the Apple watch to replicate a swimmer's motion through the water to several hundred thousand strokes?

iPhone more than likely had its own set of threshold tests done and if you do nothing more than splash some water on the phone or get caught in the rain, it's hard to comprehend the phone's water resistance being compromised.

I wouldn't be surprised if during their extensive testing of the resistance of the iPhone to water they discovered exactly what it looks like when a seal fails due to defect and what it looks like when it fails due to abuse or being subjected to exposure beyond what it's designed to protect against. They know that when they say "officially" it's water resistant that they better have all their statistical testing ducks in a row.

 

[omgitscro]

The reality is Apple cannot legally advertise and sell an iPhone with an IP rating (held to an internationally defined legal standard) and deny a warranty claim that falls within the scope of the advertised IP rating. What they state in the disclaimer is irrelevant.

Water damage was previously not covered because they didn't advertise and sell the iPhone with a defined IP rating.

You're claiming this is somehow illegal. It is not.

http://www.zdnet.com/article/samsun...t-but-if-it-springs-a-leak-youre-on-your-own/

Apple support may be generous (I've owned every iPhone and have had every single one replaced at some point, plus my Watch upgraded to SS for only the price difference 4 months past release), but Apple has no legal obligation to warranty a device with water damage.

 

[Cakefish]

I don't know about Sony but Samsung don't cover water damage under their warranty. The same as Apple.

Sony doesn't either.