iPhone 7's Lack of 'Compelling' Features Convinced Most Galaxy Note7 Owners to Stay With Samsung

[Abazigal]

True. Tim Cook's own statements aren't helping though.
That one about the iPad being all that people need was asinine.
The Iphone is still a hit but the rest of the product line is languishing.
I don't hate Tim but its hard to watch Apple go back to the way it was in the 90's.

It's also equally painful to see the same comments being made about Apple being doomed, especially when you know it's clearly not the case.

I guess we will just have to let time be the final judge of whether Apple's decisions are right or wrong. I will continue to be here, monitoring this forum while watching and waiting for that fateful day to come.

And I won't be holding my breath.

 

[kdarling]

It's also equally painful to see the same comments being made about Apple being doomed, especially when you know it's clearly not the case.

I don't think people are saying Apple is doomed, per se. After all, they're cash rich and still fashionably popular to buy.

Instead, I think a lot of long time fans are saying that Apple is no longer making them happy. That's different.

Some around here think that all the negativity comes from mythical trolls. They're wrong. It's more and more of the core fan base voicing their displeasure over Apple's current product emphasis.

 

[Juicy Box]

It's also equally painful to see the same comments being made about Apple being doomed, especially when you know it's clearly not the case.

See below...

I don't people are saying Apple is doomed, per se. After all, they're cash rich and still fashionably popular to buy.

Instead, I think a lot of long time fans are saying that Apple is no longer making them happy. That's different.

Some around here think that all the negativity comes from mythical trolls. They're wrong. It's more and more of the core fan base voicing their displeasure over Apple's current product emphasis.

This is true. Saying Apple is "doomed" can mean many different things. Obviously, it can mean the company will close down, but I don't think too many people really think that this will happen any time soon.

As you point out, "doomed" could also mean the company that many of us has grown to love and supported over the years is now changing. I don't think I have ever used the term "doomed" to describe how I feel about the changes over the past couple years, but I can understand people using the term to describe how they feel.

Lack of Mac attention especially desktops,
great products like AirPort no longer being developed,
displays discontinued,
soldered/glued everything,
disposable products,
underwhelming ATV4,
software problems,
feature removal,
software changes to make the Mac more like the iOS,
and many other things are apart of the changes that is leading to Apple being "doomed" to me.

 

[I7guy]

See below...


This is true. Saying Apple is "doomed" can mean many different things. Obviously, it can mean the company will close down, but I don't think too many people really think that this will happen any time soon.

As you point out, "doomed" could also mean the company that many of us has grown to love and supported over the years is now changing. I don't think I have ever used the term "doomed" to describe how I feel about the changes over the past couple years, but I can understand people using the term to describe how they feel.

Lack of Mac attention especially desktops,
great products like AirPort no longer being developed,
displays discontinued,
soldered/glued everything,
disposable products,
underwhelming ATV4,
software problems,
feature removal,
software changes to make the Mac more like the iOS,
and many other things are apart of the changes that is leading to Apple being "doomed" to me.

Yes, it happened to Enron, Bernie madoff, blackberry, Lehman et al. Could basically happen to any company for a lot of reasons...not just Apple, as history shows. I personally like apples' products and will miss them if they "shut the doors".

 

[mi7chy]

Just like the great pyramids the former glory of Apple will always be remembered by the spaceship building occupied by other companies.

 

[LordVic]

It's worth noting that early on in the recall process Samsung's refund/trade-in offers were more favorable for customers who chose another Samsung product as the replacement, verses customers seeking direct cash compensation for use on another Android phone or iPhone.

Also, it's really short-sighted to think that just because someone has a bad experience with a Samsung phone that they will jump platforms to iOS. Much like many long-time iOS users, many Android users have a heavy familiarity with Android's interface and large collections of paid apps that aren't going to transfer to the other side. Not to mention expectations on integrated services with Google, customization options with Android that are not available on iOS, etc.

Its a great point.

When Apple screws something up, they have to worry about losing users. There is no non-Apple alternative to Apple. If the iPhone no longer suits a users wants / needs, That user has no choice but to either "live with it" or move on to Android.

The same is not true in Android land. If Samsung screws up, the obvious choice is not to go to Apple. it's to find another Android device that does fit the needs. If Apple were banking on the Note 7 fiasco to help sales, they sorely don't understand the very markets they helped create.

So while Samsung MIGHT lose sales over the Note 7 and their brand takes it hit, it's not Apple who is going to overwhelmingly benefit. its the other Android makers. If Apple screws up? They lose users to Android.

 

[Abazigal]

See below...

This is true. Saying Apple is "doomed" can mean many different things. Obviously, it can mean the company will close down, but I don't think too many people really think that this will happen any time soon.

As you point out, "doomed" could also mean the company that many of us has grown to love and supported over the years is now changing. I don't think I have ever used the term "doomed" to describe how I feel about the changes over the past couple years, but I can understand people using the term to describe how they feel.

Lack of Mac attention especially desktops,
great products like AirPort no longer being developed,
displays discontinued,
soldered/glued everything,
disposable products,
underwhelming ATV4,
software problems,
feature removal,
software changes to make the Mac more like the iOS,
and many other things are apart of the changes that is leading to Apple being "doomed" to me.

The narrative I am seeing being played out here is that yes, perhaps Apple has lost its way according to some critics here (because Apple is no longer releasing producers which appeal to them), and they are equating this with the belief that Apple will eventually become financially bankrupt precisely because it has stopped creating products they want to use.

It just feels like a very vindictive statement overall.

I am also surprised that in an industry which is by its very nature defined by change, it is the self-proclaimed tech savvy people who are proving to be surprisingly resistant to change. At what point does a person decide to draw a line in the sand and declare - I am going to use the same 2015 Mac for eternity and nothing else will appeal to me. Not touchbars, not USB C, nothing?

 

[SeaFox]

Its a great point.

When Apple screws something up, they have to worry about losing users. There is no non-Apple alternative to Apple. If the iPhone no longer suits a users wants / needs, That user has no choice but to either "live with it" or move on to Android.

This doesn't just apply to the iPhone. It applies to the Macintosh platform as well -- and Apple is seeing the results right now. When Apple fails to deliver compelling products for a market segment, they lose users completely, not just at a hardware-sales level. When they don't give people a product they want (pro-level laptop) or a product the user can modify to make what they want (expandable consumer-level desktop), consumers change to Windows or Linux (or in the case of the laptop buy older, discontinued laptops). They no longer have the option of getting a machine that meets their needs from Power Computing, or UMAX.

As I've pointed out before, if Apple is going to insist on keeping 100% of hardware sales to itself, they have obligated themselves to now serve 100% of their market base in hardware. But the Apple of the last several years does not seem to want to exert the effort needed for that -- arrogantly thinking they can shoe-horn their entire customer base into a limited number of hardware designs to make things easy for them. That's not how the real world works, and as time moves on and Apple reduces the variety in the equipment and services they offer further they are turning themselves into the very "niche computer" company they wanted so hard to prove they weren't back in the 80's and 90's.

 

[I7guy]

Just like the great pyramids the former glory of Apple will always be remembered by the spaceship building occupied by other companies.

Totally agree, in the year 3535.

 

[Juicy Box]

The narrative I am seeing being played out here is that yes, perhaps Apple has lost its way according to some critics here (because Apple is no longer releasing producers which appeal to them), and they are equating this with the belief that Apple will eventually become financially bankrupt precisely because it has stopped creating products they want to use.

I could be totally wrong, but I don't the critics on here actually believe Apple will be bankrupt any time soon.

I am also surprised that in an industry which is by its very nature defined by change, it is the self-proclaimed tech savvy people who are proving to be surprisingly resistant to change. At what point does a person decide to draw a line in the sand and declare - I am going to use the same 2015 Mac for eternity and nothing else will appeal to me. Not touchbars, not USB C, nothing?

If it was just the things you pointed out, I don't there would be nearly the amount of disappointed Apple fans that there currently is. There are many, many more things that is disappointing people. Just look at the post you quoted to see some. Also, the touch bars, and USBc didn't even make my list. I will post it again.

Lack of Mac attention especially desktops,
great products like AirPort no longer being developed,
displays discontinued,
soldered/glued everything,
disposable products,
underwhelming ATV4,
software problems,
feature removal,
software changes to make the Mac more like the iOS,
and many other things are apart of the changes that is leading to Apple being "doomed" to me.

Many of the things I listed are subjective and my opinions, but when you compare these changes to changes of the past that most people liked, there is clearly a difference. Most of the past changes(1998-2012ish), had clear advantages to the end user, but many of the current changes that people are complaining about have little to no advantage.

Let me pick out just one out of my list, soldered RAM and SSD.... How is this good for the consumer in anyway?

 

[Abazigal]

Let me pick out just one out of my list, soldered RAM and SSD.... How is this good for the consumer in anyway?

A thinner and lighter device. Which everyone can and will notice and benefit from regardless of whether they ultimately find the need to upgrade the internals of their hardware or not.

 

[kdarling]

A thinner and lighter device. Which everyone can and will notice and benefit from regardless of whether they ultimately find the need to upgrade the internals of their hardware or not.

It's a benefit even if someone who wants to, can't upgrade??

 

[SeaFox]

A thinner and lighter device. Which everyone can and will notice and benefit from regardless of whether they ultimately find the need to upgrade the internals of their hardware or not.

Please explain how someone who "finds the need to upgrade the internals of their device" benefits in the RAM being soldiered on so they can't? You just said both groups benefit.

Using your logic, they should completely get rid of the battery and people should just plug in the AC adapter whenever they want to use the laptop -- I mean, the battery is one of the heaviest items in the machine and removing it will let us make it thinner! Oh wait. The AC adapter ads considerable weight and bulk to my laptop bag. So we can reduce the need for that by making the laptop with a better battery. Oh noes! We're back to a thick device that's heavy.

/Abazigal's head explodes

 

[44267547]

Some around here think that all the negativity comes from mythical trolls. They're wrong. It's more and more of the core fan base voicing their displeasure over Apple's current product emphasis.

Disclaimer: I am an Apple fan and tech enthusiast. Please, no Ad Hominem, which you regularly interject on this site.

That said:

More of a Core fan? Really, what's a considered to be a "Core fan." Is a core fan considered to be somebody who's been dedicated to Apple 20 years or a fan who has and invest thousands of dollars annually in to Apple products to further their work or personal experiences?

Because the way I see it, your Core fan comment is outdated. This Has nothing to do with being a core fan why people are disgruntled and upset. It Has everything to do with Apple not expanding and keeping up in the current market.

I can tell you Most are dissapointed because they feel Apple has ventured on a path that they've never been on before with implementing more techy gadgets with AirPods an Apple Watch, then they have focusing on what brought them to their fame to begin with.

I live in a fairly large city and I can tell you company after company where I am are leaving Apple, because with the expansion of technology, comes with meeting certain requirements. That said, these companies that spend $20,000 a year on Apple products, more specifically iMacs or what have you, can't afford to wait around for a new product release to meet their needs anymore for production purposes.

And I'm not just speaking on companies or organizations that have switched from Apple to another manufacture, also the school systems in my area have dropped Apple and moved onto Lenovo and Microsoft. Even one of the presidents of a local college Was quoted stating that they were due to upgrade their hardware for grants given, and they decided to go with Lenovo and Hewlett-Packard over Apple because they get more for their money and it's more updated hardware.

Look at the gaming industry as another example, even the developer for the Oculous Rift have stated Apple hardware is outdated and not powerful enough to even run the current specifications on various processing levels.

I'm not Disparaging against Apple or pointing the finger. I purchase their products for solely for entertainment and media in my household. But being I am not on either side of the fence on this, I am a listener and an effective one at that.

So back to your original comment on being a "Core fan", you're wrong, because it goes way beyond being a core fan anymore. Maybe a core fan was an appropriate response years ago, but in today's tech world and Apple, it's affected more than just the Core Fan.

 

[Abazigal]

Please explain how someone who "finds the need to upgrade the internals of their device" benefits in the RAM being soldiered on so they can't? You just said both groups benefit.

Using your logic, they should completely get rid of the battery and people should just plug in the AC adapter whenever they want to use the laptop -- I mean, the battery is one of the heaviest items in the machine and removing it will let us make it thinner! Oh wait. The AC adapter ads considerable weight and bulk to my laptop bag. So we can reduce the need for that by making the laptop with a better battery. Oh noes! We're back to a thick device that's heavy.

/Abazigal's head explodes

Any argument is of course ridiculous when taken to extremes.

The gist is this. A thinner and lighter product benefits everyone. Upgradable parts benefits only power users who will actually use this feature. The challenge is finding the right compromise that appeals to as many people as possible, without necessarily disadvantaging those who don't need those features.

I continue to maintain that the Apple of today is no different from the Apple of yesteryear. They want to make great products, and to them, a thinner and lighter product is a better product. The ram isn't soldered on to screw its customers over. It's simply to enable a thinner, lighter design. Whether you agree with Apple or not is immaterial. That's how Apple has always been. They forge ahead with what they believe in regardless of what people say, and let their sales results speak for themselves.

So it's not that the needs of you power users matter less, but that you are fighting with the needs of a wider customer base which might matter more.

 

[Radon87000]

Totally agree, in the year 3535.

If the current trajectory is any indication we wont have to wait that long.In my opinion Apple will eventually end up like IBM and maybe another company will take their place

 

[Radon87000]

A thinner and lighter device. Which everyone can and will notice and benefit from regardless of whether they ultimately find the need to upgrade the internals of their hardware or not.

Disadvabtage being you need to throw the device away once it becomes outdated or if a part fails when you are out of warranty. One of my PCs is a Dell Studio XPS 8000 from 2009 and I upgraded RAM and CPU to 16GB and a i7 4770 and it blows away the current Macs in sheer power and flexibility. I even modded the case to fit larger mobos

 

[I7guy]

If the current trajectory is any indication we wont have to wait that long.In my opinion Apple will eventually end up like IBM and maybe another company will take their place

not with hundreds of billions in the bank. Of course this is so much doom and gloom as Apple is going fine even if you don't like their direction.
[doublepost=1483619044][/doublepost]

Disadvabtage being you need to throw the device away once it becomes outdated or if a part fails when you are out of warranty. One of my PCs is a Dell Studio XPS 8000 from 2009 and I upgraded RAM and CPU to 16GB and a i7 4770 and it blows away the current Macs in sheer power and flexibility. I even modded the case to fit larger mobos

I see the way my kids use their light Mac book pros. Cannot use their old dell upgradeable laptops the same way, laying on the couch the laptop propped up. That's what lighter and thinner gets you.

 

[Radon87000]

not with hundreds of billions in the bank. Of course this is so much doom and gloom as Apple is going fine even if you don't like their direction.

Okay so did Blackberry and Nokia at one point

I see the way my kids use their light Mac book pros. Cannot use their old dell upgradeable laptops the same way, laying on the couch the laptop propped up. That's what lighter and thinner gets you.

And what will your iMacs and MacBooks be like in 2020?I will tell you.I will upgrade the **** outta my Alienware and Dell PCs and yet blow away the Macs from 2020.

Also fyi a thin and light iMac from 2017 doesn't hold a candle to my Dell desktop from 2009. How's that for longetivity?

 

[I7guy]

Disclaimer: I am an Apple fan and tech enthusiast. Please, no Ad Hominem, which you regularly interject on this site.

That said:

More of a Core fan? Really, what's a considered to be a "Core fan." Is a core fan considered to be somebody who's been dedicated to Apple 20 years or a fan who has and invest thousands of dollars annually in to Apple products to further their work or personal experiences?

Because the way I see it, your Core fan comment is outdated. This Has nothing to do with being a core fan why people are disgruntled and upset. It Has everything to do with Apple not expanding and keeping up in the current market.

I can tell you Most are dissapointed because they feel Apple has ventured on a path that they've never been on before with implementing more techy gadgets with AirPods an Apple Watch, then they have focusing on what brought them to their fame to begin with.

I live in a fairly large city and I can tell you company after company where I am are leaving Apple, because with the expansion of technology, comes with meeting certain requirements. That said, these companies that spend $20,000 a year on Apple products, more specifically iMacs or what have you, can't afford to wait around for a new product release to meet their needs anymore for production purposes.

And I'm not just speaking on companies or organizations that have switched from Apple to another manufacture, also the school systems in my area have dropped Apple and moved onto Lenovo and Microsoft. Even one of the presidents of a local college Was quoted stating that they were due to upgrade their hardware for grants given, and they decided to go with Lenovo and Hewlett-Packard over Apple because they get more for their money and it's more updated hardware.

Look at the gaming industry as another example, even the developer for the Oculous Rift have stated Apple hardware is outdated and not powerful enough to even run the current specifications on various processing levels.

I'm not Disparaging against Apple or pointing the finger. I purchase their products for solely for entertainment and media in my household. But being I am not on either side of the fence on this, I am a listener and an effective one at that.

So back to your original comment on being a "Core fan", you're wrong, because it goes way beyond being a core fan anymore. Maybe a core fan was an appropriate response years ago, but in today's tech world and Apple, it's affected more than just the Core Fan.

I see it as price. Why should a school get an iPad for 700 when a chrome book can be had for 200. I personally wouldn't use a chrome book but we're talking cash strapped schools.

 

[Radon87000]

I see it as price. Why should a school get an iPad for 700 when a chrome book can be had for 200. I personally wouldn't use a chrome book but we're talking cash strapped schools.

Because Chromebooks have zero useful applications. Its a glorified web browser

 

[I7guy]

Okay so did Blackberry and Nokia at one point



And what will your iMacs and MacBooks be like in 2020?I will tell you.I will upgrade the **** outta my Alienware and Dell PCs and yet blow away the Macs from 2020.

Also fyi a thin and light iMac from 2017 doesn't hold a candle to my Dell desktop from 2009. How's that for longetivity?

sure "it" can happen to any company even Samsung or Microsoft.

My kids don't care about macs from 2020, they want a light working computer. dollars were spent on Apple products. They bought the best for them, they don't give a whit about your dell.
[doublepost=1483619706][/doublepost]

Because Chromebooks have zero useful applications. Its a glorified web browser

Irrelevant to schools.

 

[Radon87000]

sure "it" can happen to any company even Samsung or Microsoft.

This has nothing to do with the original point that Apple can fail

My kids don't care about macs from 2020, they want a light working computer. dollars were spent on Apple products. They bought the best for them, they don't give a whit about your dell.

Razor Blade Laptop is more powerful than MacBooks,lasts just as long and is a light working computer.Somis Alienware.Your point?

 

[I7guy]

This has nothing to do with the original point that Apple can fail

It is the point exactly.

Razor Blade Laptop is more powerful than MacBooks,lasts just as long and is a light working computer.Somis Alienware.Your point?

It's not integrated into my ecosystem. Can I FaceTime? iMessage? Make a cellular call from my laptop? Pick up a call on my laptop? That's my point.

 

[Juicy Box]

A thinner and lighter device. Which everyone can and will notice and benefit from regardless of whether they ultimately find the need to upgrade the internals of their hardware or not.

This is the only thing you can say, and actually, I agree with you. But, it is not worth the cost, meaning price, feature loss and performance loss.

This essentially makes the device disposable for many different reasons. Also, you have to upgrade at the time of purchase, which, is crazy expensive. No more waiting for cheaper RAM/storage.

The gist is this. A thinner and lighter product benefits everyone.

Not everyone.

Upgradable parts benefits only power users who will actually use this feature.

Not true. There is the added cost of upgrading when doing the BTO purchasing, plus RAM and especially storage can get a lot cheaper over time.

The challenge is finding the right compromise that appeals to as many people as possible, without necessarily disadvantaging those who don't need those features.

You are exactly right, it is a compromise. The problem is that you act like Apple's previous laptops were too thick.

I don't think having an already thin laptop, marginally thinner is worth soldering RAM/storage, along with all the other problems associated with having a device too thin.

Oh yeah, all this is based on the assumption that Apple made the various compromises on the 2016 MBP to make it thinner and not based off of other reasons.