iPhone 8 May Use Apple's In-House Inductive Wireless Charging Rather Than Technology From Energous

[Neodym]

another standard..

apple - why dont you make it compatible with QI

Because it's not a great standard and leaves a LOT to be desired.

Just like the W1, Apple's version might simply be better

How standards proliferate
[doublepost=1485243955][/doublepost]

I honestly need someone to explain to me what the actual benefits of inductive "wireless" charging are. [...] How is it any better than just dropping my iPhone on a dock at night?

See the Apple Watch: Having no external charging port exposed helps with water and dust resistance as well as with design. The ultimate goal for Ive would be a device without _any_ case openings and everything working wirelessly or by touch.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that he dreams of the iPhone being nothing more than a slab of glass some day in the future.

 

[alexgowers]

To be honest I don't want wireless charging and here are a few reasons.

1. Apple only wireless will be bad for cross platforms who don't have all apple gear, it's already a bit of a headache if you aren't fully apple invested and this would only make it harder to buy apple but also harder to leave apple.

2. Wireless charging is pointless in it's current form, it's inefficient, requires precise alignment of coils and considering the close nature might as well be contact point charging that looses zero energy and is effectively the same.

3. To do it you need to drop aluminium as the construction material anywhere you intend on using it. So laptops wouldn't work without redesign, iPhones need to be glass again and iPads would be almost impossible due to their size without a composite or window design!

4. Radiated energy, putting millions of people at risk of exposure to magnetic fields could result in unforeseen long term damage resulting in lawsuits out the wazoo.

5. Standards, Apple/intel has messed it's users around with thunderbolt, firewire etc as standards that just didn't catch on, now we've finally settled on USBc and it's very good handling of power, ability to passthrough and higher currents. It makes no sense to try another standard that we all know will only work on apple devices and eventually be a flop.

 

[6836838]

My toothbrush had this 10 years ago...

 

[MathersMahmood]

I just want faster charging. Don't bother putting wireless charging if it doesn't have faster charging.

 

[647156]

Huh, what's new here, you've been able to do this for years?

 

[TroyBoy30]

just use the same standard as everyone else please

 

[Jsameds]

just use the same standard as everyone else please

I prefer propitiatory if it has sufficient advantages over industry standard.

 

[Iconoclysm]

Because it's a standard. Because you can hide a Qi mat easily if you don't want it to be seen. Qi is available where docks are not.

And you don't have to use it if your don't want to. Sure, like a dock you could just plug one cable into a device and then never have to bother, but apparently the preference is either a dock or having wires lying around that need to be plugged in every single time.

Honestly the only reason people are complaining about this appears to be because Android phones have it and iPhone users don't want to acknowledge it's a feature they don't have.

It doesn't make other phones more expensive so the argument that it would make the iPhone more expensive is basically an argument against Apple. The cost of incorporating Qi is negligible at this point too so if you are already willing to pay for an iPhone and it's other "gimmick" features then the added cost for more functionality and versatility shouldn't be a big deal.
[doublepost=1485223639][/doublepost]

So don't use it then.

And maybe the day you forget or lose your cable and your phone is dying you could just drop it on the table at whatever restaurant you are in and charge it that way. Or if you are in a terminal and your adapter is in your checked bag you have a way to charge it without having to beg for the use of someone else's cable. As I have seen happen.

Extra features? Who needs them? I don't take selfies so maybe they should scrap that front facing camera. Just bumps up the cost and isn't as good as the rear camera anyway.

I'm only speaking in the manner of the use case presented, a dock does everything the mat does. Apple doesn't just throw in things because they're cheap, they do quite the opposite, focusing on keeping things as simple as possible. And while many will claim that that's because it's for people who can't handle technology, most good engineers will tell you that this design philosophy is better for everyone.
[doublepost=1485260026][/doublepost]

While BLE might be suitable for home use (no security concerns), it's not the case for mobile use (smart phones and cameras) because BLE range is too wide.

Nonsense, if you're only allowing BLE functions within a 5cm proximity, security concerns are exactly the same. Also, you can pick up an NFC signal from virtually any distance if that's what you're actually out to do...this argument around security is pointless.

Also, every use case you brought up has absolutely no need for securing the info.
[doublepost=1485260170][/doublepost]

Yep, those work. Just yesterday I had to deal with a corrupted bootloader in an embedded device I'm working on. Luckily it does have a programming header, so it was 5-minute fix. Your way, best case is having to visit an Apple store and waste your time while not having access to the device. Worst case is your device is out of warranty and not worth the minimum fee for a service visit. So garbage when it's a simple fix with a cable.

Actually, my way would involve iTunes over the network using Bonjour to detect an iPhone booting into its factory mode and restore from there. It could be made simpler with a bluetooth option as well. No different than it is today...if that doesn't work, then you hit the Apple Store.

 

[mrklaw]

get ready for a metric ton of apple charging accessories. IKEA does some for the android/nokia standard, but almost certainly Apple will go their own route.


Also, while not as interesting as long-range wireless charging, this is still a good alternative. Even though I have the lightning dock, I find it a little frustrating to put my iphone 6S+ on it, often sliding it around for quite a while trying to find the hole. Probably scratching up the bottom of my phone over time too.

And when I have it on my bedside table, I need a cable hanging around - a wireless charger under the table surface, or as a dock that doesn't need precision mating would be great. I made one a few years ago for my nokia 930 and a business card holder and it was very handy.

 

[Iconoclysm]

Better compatibility with cases? Inductive charging has worked through most cases I've had, but too many docks require removing the case first or using some kind of a port extender.

The newest dock is case agnostic. I'm not saying I like it, I don't own it, but it's really the same concept as far as what you have to carry around.

 

[Romy90210]

If this report is true... We might not see wireless charging on an iPhone untill the year 2030. Apple is so behind in everything "Today's Tech/Hardware/innovation" that i have no doubt they have nothing close to wireless charging ready for primetime.. Get ready for a half bake wireless charging product...

 

[Roadstar]

The newest dock is case agnostic. I'm not saying I like it, I don't own it, but it's really the same concept as far as what you have to carry around.

Seems like it, and there's also no support for the phone. I'd be afraid I'd accidentally knock over the phone and bust the Lightning port in the process.

 

[George Bailey]

If they are short the stock and are certain the company will not be the provider then it makes no sense for them to talk it down a few bucks now. The stock would drop much more later, when it would become clear the company is not involved. Better to let it run up now and short more.
Therefore I do not think they are as confident as they are letting on and are looking to lighten/unload their position now.

FWIW, I have no financial position in the company, but I might consider taking one if it sells off now.

 

[RickInHouston]

another standard..

apple - why dont you make it compatible with QI

Qi (pronounced CHEE; IPA: /tʃiː/, meaning "natural energy") is an open interface standard developed by the Wireless Power Consortium

I ruined my keyboard when I read this. Shouldn't take sips of coffee while reading these boards. Never happen. Will NEVER HAPPEN.

 

[MacBergin]

Airpods still use plain ol Bluetooth for audio and not even aptx quality but plain old a2dp.

They just pretend it's different in the way it pairs using the w1 thing.

I've personally never had any trouble with Bluetooth 4 pairing as soon as I turn my headphones on with my galaxy s7

It's more than just pairing with a single device, its far easier to change devices. I can move from my phone to my ipad to my computer with zero paring time and best of all The range is amazing. I tested out my beats solo 3 and I can walk 150ft away from the source with no drop in audio. I would buy the beats pill in a heartbeat if they put the W1 chip in it.

 

[kas23]

Slowly the super hyped rumors of the can-do-no-wrong 10th Anniversary iPhone are being chipped away.

 

[tridley68]

How hard could this be they did it for the Apple watch.

 

[ksnell]

I think the wireless charging solution needs to be more portable than that. But in addition to it, yeah, I think it would be good.

I agree it would be awesome to have it built into cell towers, but wireless in-home charging would be a great start.

Maybe by the time that technology is available it won't really matter anyways because battery tech will have made some advances. The future needs great batteries if we are to be so depended on electricity.

 

[McCool71]

Apple doesn't just throw in things because they're cheap, they do quite the opposite, focusing on keeping things as simple as possible.

Not really. Their main focus is using largely proprietary solutions that makes them more money instead of using established standards anyone can buy without paying Apple tax.

And that's ok by me - I have no illusions of big companies having any goals except making as much money as they can scrape together in any way the can.

 

[BvizioN]

Am I the only person who sees absolutely no point to wireless charging? As long as you have to stay within a certain proximity of a wireless charging station, how does this free you up in any way? Might as well plug a cable in and get it over with.

Now, if we could wirelessly charge while walking down the street or while on an airplane, that would be something truly useful.

For the same reason you don't want to plug a cable to receive data on your phone/tablet or laptop, but you would rather use wireless data. In theory, real wireless charging is brilliant (not the mat thingy) because you get to use your phone while charging it and moving around. And when it takes off, these could be everywhere, just like wifi. Cafe places,gym, supermarkets, train stations, airports, airplanes, everywhere...... to the point you would rarely ever need to do anything about charging and you would forget or never bother to look at the battery indicator. The key to success on this technology is safety and efficiency. If they can overcome these 2, then it would be revolutionary.

 

[George Bailey]

How hard could this be they did it for the Apple watch.

The watch has a tiny battery, and it must be sitting right on top of that device. This needs to charge much more quickly and from further away.

 

[Val-kyrie]

The benefits of this are exactly the same as a wired connection vs. WiFi for the internet (at least for Energous' tech).

You have a base station plugged into the wall that charges all your devices from a distance of up to 15 feet away. Although it may not charge as fast, you can plug one of these things in and it covers the whole bedroom, so you can just set your phone on the nightstand, and leave your watch on, and they both charge. Same for in the car or at work.

Wireless charging is convenient and could allow Apple to make an iPhone that is a single piece of glass--Ive's dream. However, as others have pointed out, such a design creates additional difficulties if a device has to be diagnosed for a problem (if it has no port), it is going to be more complex and difficult to charge on the go (need more space and a place for the transmitter), AND it is more inefficient in its use of energy.

Does anyone know, with current technology, how much more electricity is used to charge a device wirelessly than over a cable?

 

[Apple 26.2]

That's a definite : MAYBE!

Why is everybody on this bandwagon? I can see many reasons why a cable is just better.
Lived all my live charging that way.

This looks like a solution looking for a problem.

I would prefer if they worked on a quick charge solution.

Hook up cable, wait 2 minutes 100%. Something like that.

I'm with you on the quick charge and solution looking for a problem points. My contention is that if it's not ready for production, for Apple not to roll out a half-assed concoction.

 

[jlo1158]

You can do that with bluetooth on the iPhone. This function of NFC is nothing that BLE doesn't already do. There are many who think NFC should just be completely replaced with BLE at this point.

I should have been more clear that I mean NFC payments.

The thing is with Bluetooth you still have to go into settings and pair the phone manually. With NFC just hold it close to what you want to pair it to and confirm. Like when I held my phone close to the speaker and confirmed the Bluetooth connection and starting streaming music without having to manually go into settings to connect the devices.
[doublepost=1485290186][/doublepost]

Don't know how many times I need to explain the benefits of BLE - NOTHING you just listed cannot be done by using the proximity functions of Bluetooth. In fact, Apple uses it with their Apple TV when you tap your phone to it - pairs wifi, grabs all your account info, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if you're using Bluetooth functions on some of these devices when tapping and don't even know it because you assume NFC is the only technology that works that way...just like you assume Apple hasn't duplicated that functionality without needing NFC.

I'm not stuck in any walled garden, these are the assumptions that lead to these sort of misguided comments. I own every smartphone platform, work for Apple's competitors, am a telephony consultant, and have been using NFC since the mid-90's when it was simply RFID.

If Bluetooth is so capable why did Apple need to develop the W1 chip for quick pairing and pairing across devices then?
[doublepost=1485290338][/doublepost]

Pairing with multiple devices isn't exclusive to just AirPods so I imagine it works both ways but I haven't tried it myself.

I should have said pairing with multiple devices from connecting the Airpods to one Apple device.
[doublepost=1485290786][/doublepost]

ILuvEggplant - Part time engineer, full time troll
[doublepost=1485219343][/doublepost]


If it can charge up to 10 feet away that's amazing and game changing.

Everyone seems to carry battery packs these days to give their phone juice.

Now they could just keep that in their pocket/purse/backpack and not have to worry about tethering it into their phone.

It's like walking around with an Ethernet port in your phone and suddenly you have a wifi hotspot. Sure you gotta stay in range, but it's much more convenient than connecting a cable. And if it's always with you, range isn't an issue.

I have to say this is the best argument I've seen for wireless charging. I have a 16,000 Mah and a 20,100 Mah battery I carry with me. If I could wireless charge from either of them it would be great.
[doublepost=1485291562][/doublepost]

Better compatibility with cases? Inductive charging has worked through most cases I've had, but too many docks require removing the case first or using some kind of a port extender.

What kind of cases do you use? My son got a fast wireless charging pad for his Note 5. I've thought something was wrong with my Note 5 when I tried to charge it on the pad with an Otterbox Symmetry case. When I took the case off it charges just fine.
[doublepost=1485292373][/doublepost]

And yet you'll still have the cable connecting the charging mat sitting on your table and it will take twice as long to charge. No thanks. True wireless charging would be interesting but not inductive charging mats.

I did check it just now. I checked fast charging plugged in and laying my phone on a fast charging mat. It is true the mat takes twice as long. Still a fast charging mat is as fast as a regular charger. As much as I think what you call true wireless charging would be a benefit, I still have my concerns. How far would could you get from the charging device before it can't keep up with the devices power usage. If you are constrained by a 15' range would 10' to 15' be almost as bad as not having it plugged in at all?

 

[Thunderhawks]

I'm with you on the quick charge and solution looking for a problem points. My contention is that if it's not ready for production, for Apple not to roll out a half-assed concoction.

Agreed, I would think a quick charge solution is easier to figure out than all the problems wireless has at the moment.
Even power tools with heavy usage can be charged (and have been for a while) within 15 or less minutes.