iPhone 8 Wireless Charging Reportedly Half the Speed of Current Standard

[WarDialer]

Maybe the (supposedly rather large) battery heats up too much at higher wattage charging? The phone is encased in glass front/back which is an insulator and won't dissipate heat like a metal back would.

Apple can make rather capricious decisions (see the TouchBar) but many times its more about engineering tradeoffs than just trying to piss people off. The standard supports the lower wattage charging, so its not a totally custom design (except for Apple's IP-licensing circuit requirement). Its just not the absolute MAX possible, which may be for a very good reason.

I imagine people would be complaining about how hot the phone gets around the metal edge while charging at the max wattage and wondering why Apple can't get it right.

Apple has to work within the laws of physics, there is no magic that can do anything a customer wants perfectly with no tradeoffs.

 

[TotalAdventure]

I had a solar powered calculator back in 1981, or earlier. Can they not make a solar powered phone 36 years later ?

 

[vvs14]

Apple may not do it first. But they do it right. Lol.

 

[bigjnyc]

I always charge overnight so the speed wouldn't really affect me.... However i don't see the big woop with wireless charging? you still have to place the phone on a pad, it takes me a fraction of a second to pop the phone on a charging dock, so what is the huge advantage of inductive charging? wake me up when we have truly wireless charging not charging via a pad that is plugged in to the wall with a wire.

 

[kyykesko]

I am fine if this rumor
Is true. Not a fan of inductive charging as a whole, but see it's benefits in keeping devices more sealed.

Slower charging means less stress on the cells, and less heat, which also contributes to that stress. This all could contribute to them lasting longer, and remain more stable.

I'm sure the Qi consortium is a bunch of clueless people who design systems that are made to break our phones. You should let them know about this, they must be totally unaware of it.

I'm pretty sure Apple will rename the new iPhone 8 to iPhone Courage.

 

[tpham5919]

I always charge overnight so the speed wouldn't really affect me.... However i don't see the big woop with wireless charging? you still have to place the phone on a pad, it takes me a fraction of a second to pop the phone on a charging dock, so what is the huge advantage of inductive charging? wake me up when we have truly wireless charging not charging via a pad that is plugged in to the wall with a wire.

The idea sounds nice although I don't know how safe it is to be surrounded by such powerful electromagnetic field.

 

[bigjnyc]

The idea sounds nice although I don't know how safe it is to be surrounded by such powerful electromagnetic field.

Yeah that crossed my mind as well, not sure I'd like to be in a room with that.

 

[smorrissey]

Half the speed, double the cost.

Show us the money!

 

[tpham5919]

Yeah that crossed my mind as well, not sure I'd like to be in a room with that.

Just send your least favorite kid into the "special" room to fetch your phone for you. Problem solved! =)
Joking aside, I'm sure the smart scientists will one day come up with a better medium to transfer and harness energy without harmful side effects.

 

[RMo]

Are you sure about this? They ship the iPhones with 5W USB power adapters, yet also market the 12W ones as compatible with anything starting from iPhone 4 and younger? So I charge everything with 12W chargers, is this wrong?

It's not "wrong," but, yes, faster charging does tend to wear out rechargeable batteries a bit faster than slower charging speeds. However, just because you're using a 12W charger doesn't mean the device will charge at 12W--it's not like a car battery where you're hooked up directly to the terminals. Here, the software will negotiate an acceptable rate that the device is willing to accept. (I actually think the iPhone will go up to 12W, but I could be wrong about that, though I think the supplied adapter is around 5W.) The difference might not be something you'd notice over the course of life of a typical iPhone--or it might be--but I just prefer to charge slower when I don't mind the time it takes.

 

[Crzyrio]

Do you have proof it damages the battery? I want to see some because plenty of Android users do it with no issues at all. I think it's just a marketing excuse to help maximise profits if Apple goes down this road...

It's a fact that can be googled all over the internet. Heat, fast charging and deep discharging batteries effect their overall capacity.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/ultra_fast_chargers

*C refers to the normalized discharge/charge rate.

You also have to keep in mind a lot of the Android phones have larger batteries, meaning their normal charge rate is designed to be higher.

Lets look at the details

S8 Batter = 3Ah
iPhone Battery = 2Ah

5W = 5V x 1A
7.5W = 5V x 1.5A
10W = 5V x 2A
15W = 5V x 3A

Now if we translate that to charging C-Rates

iPhone | S8
5W = 0.50C | 0.33C
7.5W = 0.67C | 0.50C
10W = 1.00C | 0.67C
15W = 1.50C | 1.00C

So that is why a lot of androids are able to support these higher rates because their batteries are designed to be larger and therefore can support higher charge/discharge rates without taking as much damage.

 

[apolloa]

It's a fact that can be googled all over the internet. Heat, fast charging and deep discharging batteries effect their overall capacity.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/ultra_fast_chargers

*C refers to the normalized discharge/charge rate.

You also have to keep in mind a lot of the Android phones have larger batteries, meaning their normal charge rate is designed to be higher.

Lets look at the details

S8 Batter = 3Ah
iPhone Battery = 2Ah

5W = 5V x 1A
7.5W = 5V x 1.5A
10W = 5V x 2A
15W = 5V x 3A

Now if we translate that to charging C-Rates

iPhone | S8
5W = 0.5C | 0.33C
7.5W =

You've just contradicted yourself? In the one hand you proclaim Apple is being 'rumoured', remember no one knows as a fact if they will use wireless charging, what wireless they will use, what speed it will be... that Apple will have deliberately used slower charging because fast charging damages phones due to battery chemistry.
Then you claim Android phones have larger capacity batteries designed to be charged at higher and therefore faster rates...

So you've stared both opposite ends of the argument now. It's also flawed as I know people who's iPhone batteries degrade after a year..

What would your argument be when Apple introduce twice as fast wireless charging next year? It sure as hell won't be any magical technology they've borrowed as phones have been fast charging for a few years now.

 

[Crzyrio]

You've just contradicted yourself? In the one hand you proclaim Apple is being 'rumoured', remember no one knows as a fact if they will use wireless charging, what wireless they will use, what speed it will be... that Apple will have deliberately used slower charging because fast charging damages phones due to battery chemistry.
Then you claim Android phones have larger capacity batteries designed to be charged at higher and therefore faster rates...

So you've stared both opposite ends of the argument now. It's also flawed as I know people who's iPhone batteries degrade after a year..

I am not following your point?

Usually a larger battery means you are capable of charging faster. And charging any faster than the recommended rates will result in faster degeneration of the battery. Which I am pretty sure was consistent in my post.

There are a LOT of things that effect battery degradation, including temperature and deep discharges being the most common. Manufacture quality also has a lot to do with it. There are also 'People' who's phone last 3 years without any battery problems, anecdotal stories are irrlevant



I am saying there is a reason why Apple does not advertise high speed charging. There is also a reason they limit their charging speeds. I can assure you that when you plug your phone into a 12W charger it is not using the full 12W but is likely closer to 8-10 at MOST.

 

[apolloa]

I am not following your point?

Usually a larger battery means you are capable of charging faster. And charging any faster than the recommended rates will result in faster degeneration of the battery. Which I am pretty sure was consistent in my post.

There are a LOT of things that effect battery degradation, including temperature and deep discharges being the most common. Manufacture quality also has a lot to do with it. There are also 'People' who's phone last 3 years without any battery problems, anecdotal stories are irrlevant



I am saying there is a reason why Apple does not advertise high speed charging. There is also a reason they limit their charging speeds. I can assure you that when you plug your phone into a 12W charger it is not using the full 12W but is likely closer to 8-10 at MOST.

So if the iPhone 8 has a 2700 or greater battery as is rumoured, how does that match your claim when it is much much bigger then the iPhone 7 battery and yet it will charge at a slower rate on wireless then the 8 to 10 watt you claim above?
It seems it's an argument with holes because fast charging has been around for years, and no one complains about it destroying their battery life.

 

[rjohnstone]

The idea sounds nice although I don't know how safe it is to be surrounded by such powerful electromagnetic field.

It's not that powerful at all. Inductive chargers have a very limited range (inches). Proper Qi chargers have EMF insulation requirements that limit the EMF emissions.

True wireless charging (no direct contact with the charging plate) is more dangerous than any charging mat when it comes to EMF radiation.
Current tests show it to only be 9% efficient at 200+ watt power levels.

 

[tpham5919]

It's not that powerful at all. Inductive chargers have a very limited range (inches). Proper Qi chargers have EMF insulation requirements that limit the EMF emissions.

True wireless charging (no direct contact with the charging plate) is more dangerous than any charging mat when it comes to EMF radiation.
Current tests show it to only be 9% efficient at 200+ watt power levels.

Yup, but being able to charge the phone wireless while walking around with it in your pocket requires powerful EM field which is not a good thing for the human body currently.

 

[Apple_Robert]

Can't wait for the actual phone to come out, so tired of these lame rumors.

I have a very reliable Apple source that has told me, that the lame rumors will continue to be front page news for the foreseeable future.
[doublepost=1503955407][/doublepost]I really don't see the big draw with the not really wireless charging feature. It is just as easy for me to continue to plug my phone into an outlet.

 

[Krio]

So if the iPhone 8 has a 2700 or greater battery as is rumoured, how does that match your claim when it is much much bigger then the iPhone 7 battery and yet it will charge at a slower rate on wireless then the 8 to 10 watt you claim above?
It seems it's an argument with holes because fast charging has been around for years, and no one complains about it destroying their battery life.

"Fast Charging" is all relative. If you charge a phone with a 1,500 mAh battery at 7.5 watts, it will take about an hour to charge. If you charge a phone with a 3,000 mAh battery at 15 watts, it will take about an hour to charge.

Both phones are being charged at 1C. The batteries will have similar lifespans if all other factors are equal. One is a "fast charge" and the other isn't.

His point was that Android phones tend to have a larger battery, so a higher amp rate is still the same C rate.

 

[BigMcGuire]

So if the iPhone 8 has a 2700 or greater battery as is rumoured, how does that match your claim when it is much much bigger then the iPhone 7 battery and yet it will charge at a slower rate on wireless then the 8 to 10 watt you claim above?
It seems it's an argument with holes because fast charging has been around for years, and no one complains about it destroying their battery life.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/ultra_fast_chargers

I think what Battery University is saying, if you can charge slower, it can help the longevity of the battery. If you charge faster than the battery is designed to charge, abnormal wear on the cycles will result. Batteries designed for rapid charging are not seeing that much degradation. Li-Ion batteries today are far more robust than batteries even 5 years ago.

10 years ago I had a laptop that I kept at 100% charge most of the time. Within 2 years the battery wouldn't hold a charge. Nowadays, I can do this to li-ion batteries for 3+ years and they still retain most of their original capacity. They handle heat and cycles a lot better too. And like you said, they handle rapid charging very well as well.

 

[CarlJ]

It’s just so much faster to connect magnetically then have to put a lightning cable all the way in the tiny charge port.

All the way in? Are you suggesting that it would be substantially easier to charge an iPhone if you only had to plug the Lightning cable half way in?

 

[Apple_Robert]

Just send your least favorite kid into the "special" room to fetch your phone for you. Problem solved! =)
Joking aside, I'm sure the smart scientists will one day come up with a better medium to transfer and harness energy without harmful side effects.

If scientists could harness the mindless drivel that comes from Social Media, and encapsulate the actors (read: blind mice) in a giant plastic ball the world would have an endless supply of energy that would be safe to use, so long as one does not drink the Kool-Aid.

 

[tpham5919]

If scientists could harness the mindless drivel that comes from Social Media, and encapsulate the actors (read: blind mice) in a giant plastic ball the world would have an endless supply of energy that would be safe to use, so long as one does not drink the Kool-Aid.

Would that be great? Green energy too. Win-win for all!

 

[Crzyrio]

So if the iPhone 8 has a 2700 or greater battery as is rumoured, how does that match your claim when it is much much bigger then the iPhone 7 battery and yet it will charge at a slower rate on wireless then the 8 to 10 watt you claim above?
It seems it's an argument with holes because fast charging has been around for years, and no one complains about it destroying their battery life.

I am not arguing with you. I am stating facts.


Batteries are both a simple and complicated thing and their chemistries change from manufacture to manufacture and no 2 batteries will ever behave the same.

But I can without doubt tell you for a fact that any sort of fast charging WILL damage the battery. Now some manufactures might find ways to reduce the effect to an extent but it is still happening. The difference might be 1% over a year due to fast charging or it might be 10% a year due to fast charging. We will never know unless someone takes the time to actually do the test on specifically the iPhone batteries.


If you really want to go into what iffs:
One reason they may still limit it to a lower amount is because of heat. You are generating more heat through wireless changing than through direct port charging. So maybe they limit to reduce the temperature of the battery in particular.


Apple has the best engineers and has better things to do than not give us fast charging for some silly marketing reason or to 'sell more' next year. They put a lot of thought behind their products and if people try to understand why they do what they do you might learn a thing or two.

 

[mi7chy]

Sounds about right. When Apple finally released the iPhone 6 phablet the bezel size and bending were two times worse than the competition.

 

[Cloudkicker]

Apple may not do it first. But they do it right. Lol.

So, "Everyone copies Apple, except when Apple takes their time to release a product, then it's because they want to do it right."? Uh... huh. lol I'm not saying this is necessarily what you think (in my reply), but it does question the double standard of some Apple fans.