I need that!!
I always think of such a device at a buffet too, drink in one hand plate in other and food on table!
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iPhone Analysis and Palm Perspective
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I always think of such a device at a buffet too, drink in one hand plate in other and food on table!
A decent phone?
I love the quote that it says it has taken Palm a couple of years to figure out how to build a decent phone.
I have the Treo 700p, and decent would be the highest mark I would consider giving it. The phone is slow, and stalls often. Bluetooth is BS, as it's totally hit or miss with "Trusted Devices".
Not having an open platform may be the trick to making this phone work day in and day out. My Treo is Ok when it was new, but put on any apps from another developer, and "boom" no longer so Ok.
I think what most people give a rat's arse about is what's not being discussed.
ANTENNAE. How is the reception on this thing. The palm sux and it has the little nubbin. The iPhone is in a metal/plastic case with no external antennae. How will that work out?
All, and all I love this iPhone so far. Concept is awesome. But I'm holding out for iPhone Gen3. I was an early 1st gen 5Gig iPod owner at the lofty price of $400 (if I remember right). the 3rd gen iPhone should have many, many bugs worked out. (It also helps that I'm locked into the current Verizon contract until April '08.)
I love the quote that it says it has taken Palm a couple of years to figure out how to build a decent phone.
I have the Treo 700p, and decent would be the highest mark I would consider giving it. The phone is slow, and stalls often. Bluetooth is BS, as it's totally hit or miss with "Trusted Devices".
Not having an open platform may be the trick to making this phone work day in and day out. My Treo is Ok when it was new, but put on any apps from another developer, and "boom" no longer so Ok.
I think what most people give a rat's arse about is what's not being discussed.
ANTENNAE. How is the reception on this thing. The palm sux and it has the little nubbin. The iPhone is in a metal/plastic case with no external antennae. How will that work out?
All, and all I love this iPhone so far. Concept is awesome. But I'm holding out for iPhone Gen3. I was an early 1st gen 5Gig iPod owner at the lofty price of $400 (if I remember right). the 3rd gen iPhone should have many, many bugs worked out. (It also helps that I'm locked into the current Verizon contract until April '08.)
yep. this will be interesting in the coming months (and weeks). i hope that the iphone gets here fast!
Its easier to be dismissive of a product rather than praise it.
Behind the walls, I bet they are looking at the design of the UI to see how they can better their own Palm UI.
This is a good one! This will go down in history along with quotes about mice and graphical UIs not ever going to catch on
I know we all just saw a paradigm shift in Phone UIs. While making negative iPhone comments Palm, Trio et al are all in their R&D departments screaming to find a way to copy this. 100% guaranteed
And THAT'S the truth
I read an article about palm saying how apple wasn't going to be able to come along and solve the phone problem.
Where as they probably haven't solved all of them....they did from the looks of things solve alot of them. Its hard to tell with out using it.
But i think all it needed was a fresh look at it.
All of palms market reserch goes into how they make their phone. In 1999 it said people want buttons.
But that was 1999....and there wasn't ever a good touch screen.
A fresh look at the phone market made the iphone...if we had not had the problems of palm and motos or rims blackberry we wouldnt have the iphone.
So let me say thankyou to palm for making yer phones suck...so we could see whats really cool.
Where as they probably haven't solved all of them....they did from the looks of things solve alot of them. Its hard to tell with out using it.
But i think all it needed was a fresh look at it.
All of palms market reserch goes into how they make their phone. In 1999 it said people want buttons.
But that was 1999....and there wasn't ever a good touch screen.
A fresh look at the phone market made the iphone...if we had not had the problems of palm and motos or rims blackberry we wouldnt have the iphone.
So let me say thankyou to palm for making yer phones suck...so we could see whats really cool.
This to me looks like a door for a battery and SIM card. Steve didn't mention anything about the battery NOT being removable...
The iPhone will definitely hurt the Treo, but it will not compete face up for every Treo customer until it talks to ActiveSync.
The enterprise customers that buy Treos by the hundred are not going to switch to a platform that won't work with ActiveSync/Exchange/Office out of the box.
And don't replay to this post telling me about IMAP and iCal and some third-party solution that will make it all work; we'll know that Apple is serious about business customers when we hear Steve Jobs start talking about ActiveSync.
And I think it could happen. From Apple's prospective, why not? There are tons of other third-party devices that already talk to ActiveSync, and Apple has a huge upside to going after business customers. I'd like to see the iPhone go this route along with tighter integration of Mail/iCal/Address Book to Outlook in general.
If I remember correctly, at the conference Jobs said he they had copyrighted the interface (or something along those lines). But how long before we see the same interface on other phones? Apparently Synaptics 'ClearPad' technology is available to OEMs, and Pilotfish are openly stating that they will develop interfaces for OEMs using ClearPad.
http://www.pilotfish.eu/EN/homepage/teaser/teaser_2/index.html
Does the iPhone use ClearPad technology, or is it Apples own tech that just does the same thing?
(If you havent seen the Synaptics Onyx concept phone interface already, then check it out, its practically exactly the same as the iPhone... perhaps Onyx is an early iPhone concept??)
Kamran
I don't think it's going to sell 10 million units or anything close to that, but it's not going to bomb like the Cube. The Cube didn't offer anything revolutionary like the iPhone does.. In fact, I don't remember it actually offer anything over the less expensive PMG4.
My first Post!
I'd like to comment on a few things. When I first was online here watching the live updates, I drooled over the phone. Then I watched the keynote. It is amazing to me how well Apple designs their products and how good this one could be out of the box.
With that said, obviously there are things that could be, should be or won't be. Removable battery as people have stated here, vibrate, 3G and a host of other questions. But it seems that Apple, in it's first iteration of the phone has nailed, by in large, the functionality most peopple would want, and how all of those are interoperable.
Apple seems to be a company that looks as a product launch as part of their R&D, not post. As stated by others, we have all the introduction of cool technology of this phone. Without having it 100,000 people's hands, who knows how good it really can be based on feedback?
I don't expect this phone to be the be all end all of iPhone (why not just call it ApplePhone like AppleTV?). Once the technology is out, Apple will surely say "we didn't even know we could implement things this way" and make improvements while adding features.
About the 3rd party developers and apps. I would love to see the ability to run keynote or other apps from this. Imagine being able to walk into a conference room, throw a presentation to a laptop from your iPhone, and be able to run it. Next, back, volume up and down, anything from the iPhone now acting as a remote for your keynote! That would rock. At least for me.
What people need to remember, is that yes, Apple seems to have gotten it right out of the box for the way this phone operates. the best news is it's only their first phone. Imagine in two years what they will be like.
Richard
I'd like to comment on a few things. When I first was online here watching the live updates, I drooled over the phone. Then I watched the keynote. It is amazing to me how well Apple designs their products and how good this one could be out of the box.
With that said, obviously there are things that could be, should be or won't be. Removable battery as people have stated here, vibrate, 3G and a host of other questions. But it seems that Apple, in it's first iteration of the phone has nailed, by in large, the functionality most peopple would want, and how all of those are interoperable.
Apple seems to be a company that looks as a product launch as part of their R&D, not post. As stated by others, we have all the introduction of cool technology of this phone. Without having it 100,000 people's hands, who knows how good it really can be based on feedback?
I don't expect this phone to be the be all end all of iPhone (why not just call it ApplePhone like AppleTV?). Once the technology is out, Apple will surely say "we didn't even know we could implement things this way" and make improvements while adding features.
About the 3rd party developers and apps. I would love to see the ability to run keynote or other apps from this. Imagine being able to walk into a conference room, throw a presentation to a laptop from your iPhone, and be able to run it. Next, back, volume up and down, anything from the iPhone now acting as a remote for your keynote! That would rock. At least for me.
What people need to remember, is that yes, Apple seems to have gotten it right out of the box for the way this phone operates. the best news is it's only their first phone. Imagine in two years what they will be like.
Richard
2 years in the making and still garbage!
2 years in the making and still garbage!
I've owned 2 Treo 650's & I'm on my 3rd Treo 700p. The phone constantly freezes. I'm unable to fwd messages longer then 30 secs that I've received from other phones. The Blue Tooth is killing me. I've tried 3 different brands and they all seem to need to paired over a certain number of calls! The only reason I'm still using it is because of SMS. I'm not expecting the iPhone to be perfect, but if Treo claims to be fixing bugs for more then 2 years. GO $*(#@#$&$#@% I honestly can't remember if and when apple ever designed something that blew up in their face......
2 years in the making and still garbage!
I've owned 2 Treo 650's & I'm on my 3rd Treo 700p. The phone constantly freezes. I'm unable to fwd messages longer then 30 secs that I've received from other phones. The Blue Tooth is killing me. I've tried 3 different brands and they all seem to need to paired over a certain number of calls! The only reason I'm still using it is because of SMS. I'm not expecting the iPhone to be perfect, but if Treo claims to be fixing bugs for more then 2 years. GO $*(#@#$&$#@%
I honestly can't remember if and when apple ever designed something that blew up in their face......This to me looks like a door for a battery and SIM card. Steve didn't mention anything about the battery NOT being removable...
I agree. Look at the iPhone Introduction video at approx. 12:45. He says it has a tray for the SIM card, but the arrow is pointing at the middle of the top of the phone. Clearly, no SIM tray exists in that location. The tray is the black part at the bottom of the phone, and I bet it also houses by the removable battery.
this is the first new product that i have instantly wanted. unfortunately, i wont be able to afford one right away. thankfully, that will stall me to wait for revb. all that to say...this thing looks great and i can't wait.
i did, however, notice this need for two hands. maybe it is possible to scroll with one hand but im not seeing how it will be comfortable. it seemed steve really needed to hold the phone with one hand and do the nifty scroll move with the other.
for me, i couldn't care less about edge vs. g3. or replaceable battery. as i dont travel often at all, i could use wifi. and charging/syncing every night doesnt bug me at all. but the day to day use issue of having to use both hands to scroll through my contacts to make a call might be something i couldn't live with. i guess i'll have to wait and see it in person.
~kyle
No other slim phone has every gotten good battery life. That is the tradeoff for slimness, and one of the primary reasons the Treo is so thick
Wrong. The Treo is so thick because it is a brick. It's a dog that doesn't do anything well except for take up weight.
You can have a slim phone, long battery life with a removable battery all in one package. I have the Moto SLVR and it is as thin as the iPhone at .46", has six and a half hours talk time and the battery is removable. It can be done. It's just a matter of whether the manufacturer wants to provide these features. The SLVR has the best talk time of any phone I have ever had. Plus it has itunes, which is a very nice addition.
I like your point, but I also have a SLVR and I notice that the battery is only removable after one pries away the outer back shell. Any battery, even the iPod's, is removable if you open the shell. It will all depend on how easy they made it for the ordinary person (after all, selling batteries is a major cashpoint of handset makers), as well as on how they engineered the battery (I recall some rumors of dual battery for phone and ipod function)
This to me looks like a door for a battery and SIM card. Steve didn't mention anything about the battery NOT being removable...
I think so too.
My first post too!
Exactly. I suspect that the delay for the european introduction may be about putting 3G functionality into the iPhone as 3G is widespread in Europe, EDGE isn't. Even where I live (more sheep than humans) we have 3G. And with 3G comes the bandwidth for video calling: iChat AV mobile?[/P]
Again, I think the delay in introduction is due to further features. We also haven't seen iLife 07 or iWork 07. If these new releases (which seem to be tied up with Leopard; ? resolution independence) will work on the iPhone then you'd be able to edit MS office docs, run presentations etc etc from the iPhone. This would make it a pretty good business phone. I used to have a Treo 600. It was ok. I could read docs on it but editing sucked because of the tiny screen and tiny keyboard. I now have a 12 " ibook and a 3G phone and both work better than a hybrid.
But the iPhone is oh so tempting......
Pete
Exactly. I suspect that the delay for the european introduction may be about putting 3G functionality into the iPhone as 3G is widespread in Europe, EDGE isn't. Even where I live (more sheep than humans) we have 3G. And with 3G comes the bandwidth for video calling: iChat AV mobile?[/P]
Again, I think the delay in introduction is due to further features. We also haven't seen iLife 07 or iWork 07. If these new releases (which seem to be tied up with Leopard; ? resolution independence) will work on the iPhone then you'd be able to edit MS office docs, run presentations etc etc from the iPhone. This would make it a pretty good business phone. I used to have a Treo 600. It was ok. I could read docs on it but editing sucked because of the tiny screen and tiny keyboard. I now have a 12 " ibook and a 3G phone and both work better than a hybrid.
But the iPhone is oh so tempting......
Pete
Once again people are comparing apples to oranges. Palm has been going after the business market with the Treo. IMO Apple is set on going after the consumer market and letting Windows Mobile keep the 'business men'.
That's what I thought at first, and I hope you're right. My guess, though, is that's where the antenna is. An all-metallic case would limit reception.
If I were Palm, I'd bash it too. So many people have been picking away at Palms market of course they're going to be nay sayers.
I used to know a ton of people with Palm Pilots. Now most people I know have the Blackberry or the Sidekick. Business users tend to gravitate towards the Blackberry and non-business users the Sidekick.
I was interested in the SideKick 3 myself until I saw the iPhone. The iPhone is going to strike a little fear in a lot of companies, fear the iPhone may turn into the iPod and cannibalize the PDA and SmartPhone industry.
I used to know a ton of people with Palm Pilots. Now most people I know have the Blackberry or the Sidekick. Business users tend to gravitate towards the Blackberry and non-business users the Sidekick.
I was interested in the SideKick 3 myself until I saw the iPhone. The iPhone is going to strike a little fear in a lot of companies, fear the iPhone may turn into the iPod and cannibalize the PDA and SmartPhone industry.
Yep. While the Palm T|X has a lot of comparable specs (screen size and resolution, total size and weight, WiFi, Bluetooth, good battery life), it looks like an antique compared to the iPhone.
But: "You had me at scrolling". Yep, me too. Seeing a mobile device which didn't look underpowered on the graphics front, seeing that multi-touch interface, seeing the seamless integration between all the services, *seeing the multi-tasking* made me realise that I will never buy another palm. I've had Palms for the last ten years. No more.
Apple may or may not have reinvented the phone, but they sure as heck have raised the bar for the PDA.
A Treo for the rest of us
I think the iPhone v. Treo v. Blackberry conversation actually misses the point. Though they'll take whatever converts they can get, my guess is that Apple is not intending to go head to head with these devices, but, rather, to create a market for this type of device among people who have never felt the need or desire for a Treo or Blackberry. I, for instance, have never till now needed such a thing, but to see it done so elegantly, simply, beautifully, coolly well, now I want one.
If the iPhone succeeds it will be because Apple is expanding and creating a market, not entering one.
I think the iPhone v. Treo v. Blackberry conversation actually misses the point. Though they'll take whatever converts they can get, my guess is that Apple is not intending to go head to head with these devices, but, rather, to create a market for this type of device among people who have never felt the need or desire for a Treo or Blackberry. I, for instance, have never till now needed such a thing, but to see it done so elegantly, simply, beautifully, coolly well, now I want one.
If the iPhone succeeds it will be because Apple is expanding and creating a market, not entering one.