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Got it. Since you don't understand it, and wouldn't want it, nobody else should be able to have it as well.

As I said, I was just setting a baseline, and you've now answered it.
After thinking a bit. Your super closed down device is not such a bad idea. It would have to be an Android based device though, because you know, Apple is closed source and IP rights. Then you would have to depend on the DMA law to have basic functionality like messaging. Facebook would never create an app for your new OS. But they would be forced to allow connecting to WhatsApp using third-party apps. Same goes for iMessage (likely, not decided yet). Now you still don't have TikTok and Instagram. As far as I know there are no provisions for these services in the DMA. But I'm not sure.

So thanks to the EU and the DMA, your business has acutally a chance of survival.
 
Seems like apple is allowed to do that in most of the world. The Eu had to thread the needle to enact legislation that forced the App Store open, which in my opinion only the big publishers may make out. The rest it’s gonna be a race to the bottom.

It would not necessarily be unreasonable for a country/region to consider Apple a dominant player in mobile OS right now and that restricting app access is anticompetitive behavior. However, laws, enforcement of laws, Apple's business operations, etc. can vary by country/region and the process can sometimes be quite slow.

The EU is not "threading a needle" here, they are looking to enforce laws that allow for more app access competition and choice (sideloading, alternative app stores) on major mobile OS platforms.
 
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And, I'd suggest that many or most of the "differences" are directly attributable to the method in which Apple curates and develops their ecosystem. So, asking Apple to change this because you like how Apple operates is like biting the hand that feeds you (or brings you the experience of a mobile ecosystem you like).

And others would suggest that asking Apple to lift restrictions on sideloading and alternative app stores allows for more open app access competition and choices which creates a more desirable experience for those users. It also gives developers more choices in where to market their apps for iOS which can make for a more desirable experience for them as well. All of this while still allowing people to get apps from Apple’s App Store and not sideload.
 

You may say it's hyperbole. I still think you need to be vigilant.
So, 20 apps out of 4 million? Compared to all the ones they do stop?
 
Its the freedom to use whatever service you like on whatever device you like.

It is using government to undermine paths to innovation and the business models that fund them.

People have developed a schoolyard definition of what freedom means. I remember being in grade school having learned about democracy and suddenly everyone thought we could vote on every classroom decision. Turned out it didn't work that way.

PCs and Macs have worked this way since day one.

They have not. I couldn't run Windows on Mac, then I could, now I can't-- or I can but not really, it's messy apparently. There are endless examples of services that you can't run on whatever device you like. I certainly can't run any services on Windows that interferes with their licensing mechanism.

To achieve this, you will also need to legislate that every service be made available on every device.

The open internet has worked this way since day one.

Explain what you mean by "the open internet" and how you think this is true. I certainly can't run any service on any device.

Phones should work this way too.

No they shouldn't. First, those other things don't work the way you're romanticizing them to, and second they are different things.
 
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So, 20 apps out of 4 million? Compared to all the ones they do stop?

I came across this 2 billioin worth of transactions number and I have questions. I'm not sure why Apple PR is boasting with it. Does this mean that apps approved on the App Store tried to scam users for 2 billion worth of transaction? How did those app pass the review process?
 
They can always be used for charging up to 60W and USB2. I like to buy cables from IKEA. They sell for 2.50 EUR. Compare that Apple Lightning cables 😂.
Almost always. There is no requirement a cable support charging and the spec allows for custom configurations.
 
Almost always. There is no requirement a cable support charging and the spec allows for custom configurations.
I haven't read the spec. So that might be true. As far as I know 60W and USB2 in practice will be the baseline that should work. Unfortunately the situation for high speed and high current cables is murkier and admittedly confusing for consumers, and that's a bummer.
 
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It would not necessarily be unreasonable for a country/region to consider Apple a dominant player in mobile OS right now and that restricting app access is anticompetitive behavior. However, laws, enforcement of laws, Apple's business operations, etc. can vary by country/region and the process can sometimes be quite slow.

The EU is not "threading a needle" here, they are looking to enforce laws that allow for more app access competition and choice (sideloading, alternative app stores) on major mobile OS platforms.
The EU absolutely has threaded the needle with this “gatekeeper” legislation. If they want more competition they should develop their own mobile platform. If customers want more choice there is android.
 
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Kaspersky OS

That's an example of a very locked-down OS being developed. They claim to have plans to launch a mobile phone.
That product appeals to a very niche crowd of people who want/need their devices to be "Cyber Immune." I'm not saying it's useless, but that's very, and I mean very unlikely to ever become a gatekeeper according to the DMA.

I'd like Apple to get much stricter in the App store.
That has very little to do with your purported issue. You claim that sideloading would crush the App Store and render every iOS device insecure by default. But nothing inherent to sideloading (or in the DMA, for that matter), says Apple has to open up their store. Again, the App Store will remain under Apple's direct control. More technologically inclined user will just have another way of installing apps.

More generally, you're conflating the security model of the OS (sandboxed containers) with the controlled nature of the App Store.
For example, there is no API to get a device's MAC address. Installing an app from the App Store or from the Internet doesn't change that.
There are ways of getting around the containerized sandbox, but that's a security hole and something Apple should patch regardless of sideloading. And who's to say someone couldn't submit a malicious app to the App Store that does exactly this? I've heard that you can smuggle malicious code into the App Store by not running it in Cupertino, where apps are tested.

The EU absolutely has threaded the needle with this “gatekeeper” legislation. If they want more competition they should develop their own mobile platform. If customers want more choice there is android.
If you want a completely closed down OS you should develop one yourself.
 
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You really need to reply to one person at a time so I don’t have to drag your whole comment down here. Unless there’s a mobile trick I don’t know about.

Now, getting back to it. 9 times out of 10, that’s exactly why people want to sideload, to pirate. Otherwise, grab the app from the store. I can’t tell you how many people wished they could sideload so they could install Vanced. 🤦🏻‍♂️
As a good example to illustrate what sideloading actually would entail contrary to what’s mostly thought about it currently.

Today any app that gets published for iOS must follow the criteria of the AppStore, and that is extraordinarily restrictive on what developers actually can do with their apps.

If you have a Mac I would record you to compare a game that is distributed in the MacAppStore such as xcom 2 the Mac AppStore and then compare the same Mac game on steam. Or you can compare the available plugins for Firefox/chrome and safari. Or just browse through cydia and the tens of thousands of different programs and addons that work without root access but aren’t allowed on the store because the functionality they provide isn’t allowed
As far as the principle of a mobile device and a PC, being the same, only remotely. But when you step back for a minute and look at each platform separately, you begin to understand why they don’t want iPhone users doing this. The fact that it’s a mobile device, tied to a dedicated network, makes it a lot more appealing for hackers to try and access. Then there’s antivirus software. Most people have that installed on their computer, on a phone it’s seen more as a gimmick because the user is the first line of defense against malware or viruses. Or in the case of iPhone, Apple made sure you couldn’t download those sort of apps. Not to say that every app in the App Store is perfect, but I don’t think any of them have nefarious code installed. I could go on, but we’ll stop there for that segment, lol.
The issue isn’t the fact that Apple wishes how the owners of the device is used, but the fact they want to also dictate it’s use and whether they even have the moral authority to do so when they no longer owns the device sold.
It being a portable device with network connectivity just moves the goalpost.

An iPad Pro without mobile connectivity have greater capabilities than a MacBook Air running the same silicon and APIs, but is still equally limited as the iPhone or iPad with network connectivity of what applications are approved to launch.

And antivirus software is a gimmick because the sandboxing functionality of the os renders such things meaningless, and nothing run by the user have root/administrative privileges is run with privileged access making it kind of pointless anyway.

and unfortunately apps with nefarious code exist in the AppStore.
As far as the EU winning because it’s their market and their rules, you obviously didn’t get my Charlie sheen reference m. He thought he held all the cards as well, until he didn’t….
Indeed as I don’t watch sheen, I just don’t get the winning or losing part.
Especially when the law is already implemented. Especially if a company already admitted the service in question fits the requirements of a gatekeeper…
So I don’t see what else they can do. Especially considering their terrible legal defense after trying to argue the AppStore’s are different and should be treated separately on iOS,iPad and Mac.

So… the only way Apple get away with it is if they leave the market
 
I can imagine a world in the not-to-distant future where businesses and corporations require employees to use more locked down systems rather than more open systems. I get you you can't imagine that.
Oh my God, do personal devices cease to exist?

I'm saying I don't want government to arbitrarily be setting standards in this area.
Nothing in your wording indicated that
 
The EU absolutely has threaded the needle with this “gatekeeper” legislation. If they want more competition they should develop their own mobile platform.

No needle threading. They have designated Apple as a gatekeeper which is not unreasonable in this case given the company's dominance as one of only two major players in mobile OS. It's also not unreasonable to consider restricting app access (sideloading, alternative app stores) anticompetitive behavior in this case.



If customers want more choice there is android.

As I've said many times, simply having an alternative does not negate antitrust laws so using the "there is Android" argument continues to be meaningless.
 
No, you didn't. And now having reviewed the history of your posting here, I'm convinced you are directly employed in these issues. It's not irrelevant to me in how I respond to you.
Hmm I see, I honestly thought I had typed No,but seems i missed it or accidentally removed it from the sentence when editing the comment, and apologize for my rudeness.
 
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As I've said many times, simply having an alternative does not negate antitrust laws so using the "there is Android" argument continues to be meaningless.

Nor does market size automatically require it.
 
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I can imagine a world in the not-to-distant future where businesses and corporations require employees to use more locked down systems rather than more open systems.
I might draw a distinction by saying that more open systems are better toys, and more closed systems are better tools.

But nothing inherent to sideloading (or in the DMA, for that matter), says Apple has to open up their store. Again, the App Store will remain under Apple's direct control.
How are people not realizing that the reason Apple is able to provide the protections they do to their customers is because they gatekeep the marketplace for a minority of sufficient size that developers submit to the rules. Once you remove the walls then it's just predators and prey out there again.

More technologically inclined user will just have another way of installing apps.
Again, you're wrong. More technologically inclined users already have another way of installing apps-- it's called Xcode. What you're looking for here is to give less technically inclined users another way to install apps.
 
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I have very little faith in Apple's curation. They approve scam apps all the time while giving legitimate developers a hard time.

Before I install a new app from an unknown developer I always look for reviews and recommendations outside the app store.

Are we sure it’s not just confirmation bias. For example, it’s like when I see the news about a crime taking place, and then conclude that local law enforcement is incompetent, without taking into account the crimes that they do stop or solve.
 
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Are we sure it’s not just confirmation bias. For example, it’s like when I see the news about a crime taking place, and then conclude that local law enforcement is incompetent, without taking into account the crimes that they do stop or solve.
It's not. Would you install a random "Document Scanner" or a "Flashlight" app from the app store and be confident that it's not a scam that will sell you a overpriced subscription for little actual functionality, just because Apple has reviewed the app?
 
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No needle threading. They have designated Apple as a gatekeeper which is not unreasonable in this case given the company's dominance as one of only two major players in mobile OS. It's also not unreasonable to consider restricting app access (sideloading, alternative app stores) anticompetitive behavior in this case.
There are literally hundreds of cell phone manufacturers with apple being a minority player. What’s done is done, but my opinion hasn’t changed and neither has going around in circles.
As I've said many times, simply having an alternative does not negate antitrust laws so using the "there is Android" argument continues to be meaningless.
That’s the needle that was threaded.
 
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There are literally hundreds of cell phone manufacturers with apple being a minority player. What’s done is done, but my opinion hasn’t changed and neither has going around in circles.

It's irrelevant how many cell phone manufacturers there are (similar to how it was irrelevant how many computer makers there were in the 1990s during the Microsoft case) as the as the dominance I was referring to was mobile operating systems of which there are only two major players (iOS and Android).



That’s the needle that was threaded.

Again, no needle threading.
 
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