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But how many *valid* patents remains to be seen

Don't forget that the iPhone has over 200 patents, it is going to be hard for most vendors to come up with anything that does not violate a patent or two.

There's a lot of volatility in the software patent space - particularly with the situations where a patent is an "obvious" extension of other patents or prior art.

If a court decides that using two fingers to play a touch-sensitive screen is an obvious extension of prior art on single finger touch screens - the multi-touch Zune phone will be out the next day.

So, all the Iphone patents in Apple's portfolio could be rubbish - and the multi-touch music-playing Verizon phone could be here in July.
 
Do you think that Apple and Steve whose project is the iPhone are both royally stupid?

Perhaps.

No competent CEO would let personal quests jeopardize the fiduciary health of the company.

The acknowledged fact that The Steve (dba Apple) has let the Iphone cause a slip to the 10.5 and perhaps risk further slips of the core OS business is evidence that he is taking chances on the future of the company.

If the iPhone is a flop, it could do serious harm the to stock price - but only due to the amount of hype that's been built up.

The cube was a flop, but it didn't harm the company. If the iPod had flopped, it wouldn't have harmed the company.
 
To me, this thread is a reminder of and testimony to how much there is to hate about having a cell phone:

  • Multi-year contracts with steep penalties for ending prematurely.
  • Expensive plans.
  • Steep penalty prices for minutes which exceed your plan.
  • Dropped calls.
  • Bad call sound quality.
  • Rude and incompetant service professionals.
  • Extremely complex user agreements.
  • Horrible GUIs on phones.
  • Fragile and expensive equipment.
  • Driving while talking and driving while texting!!
  • The thought which festers in your subconscious about cell phones and brain cancer.
  • And now we can add to the list: a rare cool and desirable product is exclusive to a network which is not a good fit for you.
I know they provide some conveniences, but have cell phones really improved the quality of our lives all that much? Sure, they relieve the tedium of concentating on the road while you naviagte what is essentially a guided missile, and they make it possible to take a business call while sitting on a public toilet, but can they sound good, last long, be safe, and not cost us arms and legs? Can the iPhone?
 
Its time to dump the other standards in the trash can of history.
The world moves on GSM. Japan, Sprint and others need to get on the bandwagon or be left behind.

What are you talking about? CDMA is the replacement for GSM. Perhaps you didn't notice, but Japan is generally the leader in Mobile Phone Technology. We have all the neat stuff here several years before the US & Europe.

This bandwagon you speak of - that's Japans old wagon that was sold on Ebay in 2001.
 
There's a lot of volatility in the software patent space - particularly with the situations where a patent is an "obvious" extension of other patents or prior art.

If a court decides that using two fingers to play a touch-sensitive screen is an obvious extension of prior art on single finger touch screens - the multi-touch Zune phone will be out the next day.

Except you give Microsoft too much credit for competence and ability to execute**.

Someone might do it, but not MS.







** Examples include the poorly thought out Zune in response to iPod (4-5 years late) and the bunged attempts at making anything approaching a decent copy of the Mac OS until 95, despite access to the inner workings of the Mac and seeing the work of Xerox just like Apple.
 
Sheesh. Who cares.

While I'm sure the iphone will be da ****™, I doubt it'll be a knockout success like the iPod if Apple endorses AT&T flat out.
 
To me, this thread is a reminder of and testimony to how much there is to hate about having a cell phone:

[snip]

I know they provide some conveniences, but have cell phones really improved the quality of our lives all that much? Sure, they relieve the tedium of concentating on the road while you naviagte what is essentially a guided missile, and they make it possible to take a business call while sitting on a public toilet, but can they sound good, last long, be safe, and not cost us arms and legs? Can the iPhone?

Don't kid yourself. Before cell phones, people found plenty of ways to be distracted while driving. Putting on makeup, fiddling with the 8-Track player, yelling at your kids, whatever. Even now, how many times have you seen someone distracted by their iPod while driving?

Don't get me wrong, I've wondered more than once about the idiot taking a call in the stall next to me in the men's room - but is that really the fault of the cell phone, or the fault of the idiot?

What I do think you'll see is more theaters, churches, etc. deploying "defensive measures" against cell phones - blocking them from working while you are there. Cars in motion with only one occupant should do the same.
 
My thoughts exactly...


To me, this thread is a reminder of and testimony to how much there is to hate about having a cell phone:
Multi-year contracts with steep penalties for ending prematurely.
Expensive plans.
Steep penalty prices for minutes which exceed your plan.
Dropped calls.
Bad call sound quality.
Rude and incompetant service professionals.
Extremely complex user agreements.
Horrible GUIs on phones.
Fragile and expensive equipment.
Driving while talking and driving while texting!!
The thought which festers in your subconscious about cell phones and brain cancer.
And now we can add to the list: a rare cool and desirable product is exclusive to a network which is not a good fit for you.
 
What are you talking about? CDMA is the replacement for GSM. Perhaps you didn't notice, but Japan is generally the leader in Mobile Phone Technology. We have all the neat stuff here several years before the US & Europe.

This bandwagon you speak of - that's Japans old wagon that was sold on Ebay in 2001.

W-CDMA is not "CDMA" as used by Sprint. CDMA as used by Sprint, Verizon, and some companies in Japan is an obsolete pile of crap that only exists because of legacy issues. It's extremely disingenuous to look at a comment clearly talking about IS-95/CDMA2000/UMB and claim "CDMA" (in that context) is the future while linking to a GSM technology.

(And, FWIW, W-CDMA hasn't exactly been an outrageous success, despite the promises Code Division Multiple Access obsessives made at the time it was proposed. Once the LTE project reports, it seems probable that the technology will live on for largely legacy reasons, while OFDM based air interfaces are rolled out as quickly as the operators can manage.)
 
I think AT&T are putting too much faith in the iPhone, and likewise Apple are putting too much faith in AT&T. The iPhone is overhyped and incredibly expensive. AT&T's network still suffers from being a patchwork of different systems rather than being designed from the outset as a GSM system. The fact AT&T have been slow to roll out UMTS has also not helped. At this rate, despite T-Mobile not having anything but a few test transmitters up at the moment, it seems probable T-Mobile will have nationwide UMTS before AT&T does.

So not everyone likes AT&T, and the iPhone isn't as unique as people pretend it is either - let me rephrase that: there are phones that are equally compelling, and there are many phones that are cheaper, more functional, and more compelling. The iPhone will serve a niche, it doesn't redefine mobile telephony. To hear its supporters, you'd think virtually the entire world has been crying out for a large phone that can only be interacted with using a touchscreen.

Oh, and on the patents issue: forget it. Nokia and others hold key patents on GSM, UMTS, and pretty much everything else that Apple needs to implement in order to produce a phone compatible with AT&T's network. If Apple doesn't license its technologies, others will play hardball with them. I'm actually tempted to speculate that this was why Jobs made a point of mentioning the patents at the keynote, it wasn't a case of "Heh, nobody else can make a phone like this!", more "We've made a good phone. Compete with it fairly, or else we'll take our ball home."
 
See, here's the major problem with iPhone having a five year period of exclusivity (and it would be the same problem if it were anything greater than 1 year - to be totally honest) - a $500 and $600 phone is not going to be enough to convert as many people to AT&T as they think...I mean, by their own 10 million sold estimate (which is just an insane number), 1 out of every 5 current AT&T customers would have to get an iPhone...at $500 and $600, that's not going to happen -- not in the United States anyway (unless they can get businesses to adopt it - and the problem with that is that AT&T has ****** business plans). Plus, in 5 years, the iPhone will have real competitors, be on its third generation from Apple. I mean, from the demos I've seen - the interface IS amazing, but the fact remains that unless it can actually be a real replacement for the iPod (which will require it to have a capacity larger than the nano), I can't even see most normal people considering dropping that much dough on a phone (Especially when you know it's going to require either a special plan for a $20 data plan surcharge onto the existing plan). I'm stupid enough to do that sort of thing, but Cingular screwed me -- I hate them, and unless I can be assured that SBC has taken over customer service, I won't touch AT&T...period. Plus, I'd have to pay $20 more a month to get the same plan I have now - and my service with T-Mobile is stellar in my area (and my boyfriend is on Cingular/AT&T and his isn't as great).

Now here's a thought - Apple might have a contract of exclusivity with AT&T for five years, but without seeing the documents, that might only apply to the current iPhone and other iterations that are based on the same series. Meaning that other phones could be made for other providers, as long as they have a different build (even if they do the same thing or look essentially the same...other mobile phone companies have done this in the past to get around exclusive contracts). Unless there is a clause that says they can't make a phone for any other provider, PERIOD, I would expect them to eventually start courting other providers...because being with only one player is just not smart.

When you look at Apple's biggest success, the iPod, you have to examine exactly WHY it is successful. I've done a lot of thinking about this, and I feel very confident saying that it is because they released a version that was compatible with Windows. End of story. When the first iPod came out, I wanted one - I mean, I really wanted one - but as someone who uses Macs at school, but PCs at home, I wasn't able to get one right away. I eventually almost got Mac Opener and some other software that would allow me to use it on my PC, before hearing at one of the MacWorld or MacExpo things that Apple was coming out with a PC version that fall. I literally got one the day it came out. I worked at a large electronics store for five years, and Christmas 2002, I tried to convince people to go iPod, and sold a lot - but it was far from a huge hit. It wasn't until they launched the iTunes store for Windows and made the iPods singularly compatible (meaning both Mac and PC versions were in the same box) that the thing really exploded. What was great about iPod (and the Intel move), was that for the first time, Apple finally bucked the trend of being proprietary and requiring the whole world to come to them. They came to the customer instead. But with iPhone, it's the same old story - you must come to us. And for $600 plus a $60 or $70 monthly phone plan, not a lot of people are going to be knocking themselves out to switch providers to get a cool interface, a low-capacity iPod and a PDA. Especially once the "cool" wears off after 6 months (as soon as more than two people at a party have one, the whole "lust" factor will be over...which is typically when most other big phones drop in price and became easily affordable for everyone -- Apple's going to have a hard time dropping price when they are only selling to one carrier, because AT&T probably would have to take a $400 loss (that's saying they sell the phone for $100 or $200) for every phone they sell in an attempt to win customers, and even with a 2-year contract, that's tough to swallow)).

I mean, I'm sure they have reasons for this -- but Apple doesn't know the mobile phone industry, and the US market is different from other markets -- so I just hope they are prepared to sell under projections and deal with price issues. Because being exclusive to one provider is a risky move - period.

Great, thoughtful post. I agree with your observation about the iPod--that was also my experience, and that of many others that I know. It will be interesting to observe the iPhone's progress.
 
Despite Apple's recent success, many of us remember a company that did plenty of great things, but made plenty of blunders too. I'll always love Apple, but I'm starting to think that this is another Newton - a high priced, low functionality, widely publicized flop that caused them to abandon a market that would later be worth billions (i.e. PDAs).
 
Don't kid yourself. Before cell phones, people found plenty of ways to be distracted while driving. Putting on makeup, fiddling with the 8-Track player, yelling at your kids, whatever. Even now, how many times have you seen someone distracted by their iPod while driving?

Who's kidding? Cellular phone eclipse all of those things in terms of distraction and all of those other things are still in place to distract you on top of it, assuming we substitue 8-track for any other music source. Two years ago somebody was killed right outside of my house by someone who was driving while texting...
 
There's a lot of volatility in the software patent space - particularly with the situations where a patent is an "obvious" extension of other patents or prior art.

If a court decides that using two fingers to play a touch-sensitive screen is an obvious extension of prior art on single finger touch screens - the multi-touch Zune phone will be out the next day.

So, all the Iphone patents in Apple's portfolio could be rubbish - and the multi-touch music-playing Verizon phone could be here in July.

And monkeys could fly out of my butt.

Seriously, I doubt all 200 patents will hold up (probabilistically, one or two will be turned over if completely challenged), but even the fact that they have particular patents pending will be enough a stick to beat away most competitors trying to do similar things. They could even all get thrown out eventually (doubt it, but it's possible), but in the meantime no competitors allowed.

IMHO, from my experience, Apple is more conservative than most companies in applying for patents. They have a rather lengthy and involved internal process for vetting the patent application, and applications can and do go out the window in the late stages of that process if they don't seem like they would hold up in court. While this may have changed for the iPhone development, I strongly doubt it. I suspect, even believe, that the vast majority of patents that Apple applied for will be granted and will hold up under scrutiny.

Again, though, they might have gotten lazy/greedy here and applied for some paper-thin patents. I wouldn't count on it though. The real question here isn't the validity of the patents, but the importance of those patents; ie, without violating these patents, can a competitor make a device similar enough to Apple's phone to make a difference.

But, in the end, what we (consumers who aren't able/willing to move to AT&T for the phone) can hope for is that Apple's entry forces other makers to rethink their design goals (which are not patentable) and emphasize usability and utility over enabling their service providers to sell schlock like GetItNow! craplications.
 
Not allowed to make CDMA version, nothing said about iDen. Imagine a rubberized-yellow iPhone with a multitouch push-to-talk thingie.

Sprint wants to converge their two networks and make it 100% CDMA. So no iDen either. In many areas Nextel was at capacity and had NO plans to expand. They were eager to sell to Sprint.

I said from the start that there would be no CDMA version. Why make a phone for ~150 million potential customers in a few countries when you can make a phone for over 1 billion potential customers and sell it in hundreds of countries.

They also don't have to deal with Qualcomm as much.
 
As a Verizon customer I wish negociations had worked out. I'm originally from Montreal, my parents are still there and I call about every other day. Verizon lets me call to Canada without incurring extra long distance fees (basically as if I was calling anywhere else in the US). Cingular/AT&T doesn't. Unless that situation changes there's no way I'm switching, especially since I've been generally satisfied with Verizon's service.

But I'm hopeful that when the 6G iPod finally arrives :rolleyes: it'll satisfy my current lust for the iPhone. :)
 
I won't be buying an I phone now until it's available for all carriers.
This disgusts me.:mad:
 
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