iPhone Details: 5 Years on AT&T, Verizon's Answer?

[MacCurry]

What does "CDMA" mean?

Canadian Donkey and Mule Association

For phone voice & data standards, just Wiki it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mobile_phone_standards

The iPhone is Quad band GSM (850/900/1800/1900 MHz). It will work everywhere in the world. GSM is what the rest of the world is using. I'd like to remind everyone here, the US is NOT the leader in mobile telephony. It is happening in China and India where people will gladly shell out $500-$750 for a mobile phone because its the in-thing to do and over 8 million new subscribers are added EVERY month. Nokia and Samsung are the leading companies.

What is really bad about AT&T (formerly Cingular) is that they will NOT unlock your phone so that it can be used with another carrier. Lets say you have an unlocked iPhone, then you can use it with any GSM carrier in the world. If its locked to AT&T, then you can't unlock it and you're stuck if you wish to change carriers. Additionally, if the next gen of iPhone comes out in a couple of years, you can only sell your iPhone to another AT&T customer. Its a bad deal.

I recommend people to stay away from AT&T. If Apple doesn't agressively market the iPhone in Asia, they will ultimately find that it isn't a profitable product. The mobile phone industry is much more different than portable music player concept.

 

[yayaba]

.
I can even see a market here for some kind of device which allows for Verizon users to use the iphone.

Um, ok I'm not a guru on phone techonolgy here but this is pretty much impossible isn't it? There's no way to convert GSM signals to CDMA signals.

Unless someone busts open the iPhone and installs new firmware and hardware that'll do the signal conversion. Not likely in my book.

I want to stick up for AT&T/Cingular a little though. To those who said it sucked between the Golden Gate and Tahoe, I have Cingular and it works just fine for me. I live in Sacramento and I commute back and forth to the Bay Area once in awhile and my service in both regions is fine. I think stories of crappy services has to do more with crappy phones than anything. (my phone is generally rated as having good reception).

I remember when I visited Las Vegas with Verizon and I had to make a phone call home to my family, I couldn't. I had Verizon for 4-5 years and that was the only time where my phone literally said "No Service" and that was on the Las Vegas strip too. I was pretty peeved. So far with Cingular though, I've had a good experience (and I could even roam in Taiwan too!).

 

[yg17]

With T-Mobile I get unlimited data (BB BIS) for $19.99 / month. That's $15 less than Cingular. I'll stick with T-Mo...

And with T-Mobile, you won't drop every call you make and you'll have English speaking customer service reps who know what they're doing and are friendly to boot.

The BIS plan is about as cheap as you'll find data too. Plus, I can use it on my Pocket PC rather than the $30 Internet+Hot Spot plan

A co-worker of mine got a PPC on Stinkgular, and the data plan prices were as expensive as the actual voice plan itself, so he opted not to get it. If it's any sign of the iPhone's prices, you'll be spending 100 bucks a month just to use the damn thing.

I <3 T-Mobile. No plans on going elsewhere anytime soon. Not for ATT's iPhone, not for Sprint's cheap SERO plans, not for USCC's free incoming, not for Verizon's fast broadband. No other carrier in my experience has come close to offering the quality that T-Mobile has.

 

[kironin]

What is really bad about AT&T (formerly Cingular) is that they will NOT unlock your phone so that it can be used with another carrier. Lets say you have an unlocked iPhone, then you can use it with any GSM carrier in the world. If its locked to AT&T, then you can't unlock it and you're stuck if you wish to change carriers. Additionally, if the next gen of iPhone comes out in a couple of years, you can only sell your iPhone to another AT&T customer. Its a bad deal.

I recommend people to stay away from AT&T. If Apple doesn't agressively market the iPhone in Asia, they will ultimately find that it isn't a profitable product. The mobile phone industry is much more different than portable music player concept.

I think this is a bit pessimistic. They are several good services you can go to have your phone unlocked. If you are someone that travels overseas then it's quite possible and worth it to unlock your phone and use a local GSM card in your phone. I have been using an unlocked RAZR with my Cingular/ATT service for a while. Carriers don't liike you to know this but it's perfectly within your rights to have a phone unlocked.

I guarantee that you will need to have an unlocked iPhone, a way will be found. Most will probably never need to, but those with compelling reasons it wlli be possible, I have no doubt.

 

[killmoms]

I think this is a bit pessimistic. They are several good services you can go to have your phone unlocked. If you are someone that travels overseas then it's quite possible and worth it to unlock your phone and use a local GSM card in your phone. I have been using an unlocked RAZR with my Cingular/ATT service for a while. Carriers don't liike you to know this but it's perfectly within your rights to have a phone unlocked.

I guarantee that you will need to have an unlocked iPhone, a way will be found. Most will probably never need to, but those with compelling reasons it wlli be possible, I have no doubt.

Wasn't there recent legislation passed that basically said that carriers HAD to allow users to unlock their phones if they wanted? I thought I remembered reading something about that.

 

[yg17]

Wasn't there recent legislation passed that basically said that carriers HAD to allow users to unlock their phones if they wanted? I thought I remembered reading something about that.

The legislation was that it's legal to unlock a phone, but your carrier doesn't have to help you with it

 

[Maccus Aurelius]

And with T-Mobile, you won't drop every call you make and you'll have English speaking customer service reps who know what they're doing and are friendly to boot.

The BIS plan is about as cheap as you'll find data too. Plus, I can use it on my Pocket PC rather than the $30 Internet+Hot Spot plan

A co-worker of mine got a PPC on Stinkgular, and the data plan prices were as expensive as the actual voice plan itself, so he opted not to get it. If it's any sign of the iPhone's prices, you'll be spending 100 bucks a month just to use the damn thing.

I <3 T-Mobile. No plans on going elsewhere anytime soon. Not for ATT's iPhone, not for Sprint's cheap SERO plans, not for USCC's free incoming, not for Verizon's fast broadband. No other carrier in my experience has come close to offering the quality that T-Mobile has.

I currently use T-Mobile, and I'm pretty pleased overall despite a little drama here and there ( was charged twice TWICE, but was resolved and credited rather quickly). But I get a generous amount of minutes per month, free nights and weekends and so forth, so I'm very happy with it. If I had a phone that was more interactive, like the iPhone, I would love to have this+something like my current plan, then use the WiFi in hotspots to supplement the data.

 

[seashellz2]

I wonder if they (Verizon) have got the ZunePhone?

---

uhhh...
whats a 'Zune'?

 

[ClimbingTheLog]

The Netburst problem was only indirectly high clock speed - the real culprit was power consumption and therefore heat output.

Well, they gave up absolutely everything - energy budget, pipeline depth, prediction miss recovery - just to get the MHz up. If we want to talk about the real culprit let's press the elevator button for Marketing.

Um, ok I'm not a guru on phone techonolgy here but this is pretty much impossible isn't it? There's no way to convert GSM signals to CDMA signals.

No, but I see no reason you can't write an app that lets you use an iPhone as a bluetooth 'headset' for your mini Verizon phone in your pocket.

Except that it's a closed platform...

 

[AidenShaw]

Originally Posted by AidenShaw
The Netburst problem was only indirectly high clock speed - the real culprit was power consumption and therefore heat output.​

Well, they gave up absolutely everything - energy budget, pipeline depth, prediction miss recovery - just to get the MHz up. If we want to talk about the real culprit let's press the elevator button for Marketing.

The GHz ceiling and the related energy budget were the problems.

If they'd been able to hit 12 GHz at 20 watts, nobody would complained about CPI or pipeline bubbles or branch prediction.

Yes, in hindsight the design was flawed in several areas.

The pipeline depth decisions and prediction design would have been reasonable tradeoffs, however, if the frequency could have been increased greatly.

Great failures are usually due to several mistakes. (If the Titanic hadn't been built from brittle steel, or if it hadn't hit the iceberg....)

 

[killmoms]

...or if it hadn't hit the iceberg....)

Just as a point of interest, I'm thinking this was probably the primary problem with that particular voyage.

 

[JNB]

Yeah I heard that too, it's a top secret M$ development of course. There have been leaks and I hear it is a 'spin wheel' and it has ten holes in it around the edge and in each hole are numbers 0 through 9. You 'touch' by putting your finger in the hole and rotate and this wheel thing turns with a clicking sound (M$ patent on 'spin wheel' is pending). Once turned all the way (to a M$ patented stop pin) you let go and the wheel spins (automatically!) back so you can select the next hole number and so on. Redmond think it will be a sensation.

Wait a minute here! Steve showed that technology already in the SteveNote! Another Redmond Ripoff!

i don't get it.

Ah, kids today...

 

[arkmannj]

In the last few years I signed up with AT&T, who then became Cingular (and screwed up a bunch of stuff), and now we're becoming AT&T again.
Service has been ok I suppose. I just hope it has decent service plans to compliment the iPhone. The price of the iPhone might be a bit expensive, but it's the service plan(s) that will cost the most over time. I would actually get two iPhones (Wife and myself) if there is a good, economical plan to compliment it well. I think the iPhone will be a decent device, my worries are mostly with AT&T.

 

[CalBoy]

In the last few years I signed up with AT&T, who then became Cingular (and screwed up a bunch of stuff), and now we're becoming AT&T again.
service has been ok I suppose. I just hope it's decent plans to compliment the iPhone. The price of the iPhone might be a bit expensive, but in the service plan(s) are what will cost. I would actually get two iPhones (Wife and myself) if there is a good, economical plan to compliment it well. I think the iPhone will be a decent device, my worries are mostly with AT&T.

I have similar concerns. I would buy one, but ATT's plans are bad...data service plans are $50 and up, and that doesn't include a great deal of data. I'll probably buy the iPhone after next January. Hopefully by then, ATT will have better data plans.

 

[arkmannj]

I have similar concerns. I would buy one, but ATT's plans are bad...data service plans are $50 and up, and that doesn't include a great deal of data. I'll probably buy the iPhone after next January. Hopefully by then, ATT will have better data plans.

Every time I think of a "data plan" I squirm a little bit. (because of price mostly) To be honest the only data I want is that feature to see who left voice mails, and select what I want to listen to. Other than that I have wifi about anywhere I care to connect to the internet on my phone with. (work, home, airports, movie theaters and some stores around here even have free wifi)

 

[Riquez]

No CDMA = No iPhone in Japan

Apple is also said to be prohibited from creating a CDMA version of the iPhone during this time.

Oh dear
All the networks in Japan are CDMA, so this is bad news for me.
May as well forget about the iPhone until at least 2013

 

[MacCurry]

Its time to dump the other standards in the trash can of history.

The world moves on GSM. Japan, Sprint and others need to get on the bandwagon or be left behind.

GSM has nearly 2.44 billion users world wide and growing.
http://www.gsmworld.com/index.shtml

Legislation on phone number portability was passed and if your number went to a new carrier, then the phone was unlocked. Unlocking the iPhone (that is hacking it) may void its warranty. Avoid AT&T.

 

[cgc]

...If they'd been able to hit 12 GHz at 20 watts, nobody would complained about CPI or pipeline bubbles or branch prediction.
...

At first, I thought you were talking about cell phone specs (12GHz @ 20W). I was thinking how nice that'd be to hold near your head.

 

[EagerDragon]

No CDMA version for 5 years? That pretty much discounts me getting an iPhone for 5 years. GSM is garbage in this country, anyone living in a city will tell you that. Ya know, areas with buildings where the GSM reception drops my an order of magnitude when you step inside? Yeah.

You are assuming that CDMA will still be around for 5 years.

 

[EagerDragon]

The "iPhone killers" will be rolling out for years to come. Just like the "iPod killers." Some might even be as thin and light as the iPhone (compared to the usual bricklike smartphones) but they won't have Apple ease-of-use, iTunes integration, or multitouch.

And they won't have Apple's mindshare. Every time one of them comes out, the articles and reviews will also mention iPhone. Free press for Apple every time a competitor is mentioned! Must be nice

I do want to see 3G speeds come to iPhone--and Apple has already announced that this is coming. I don't so much care about CDMA specifically though.

Don't forget that the iPhone has over 200 patents, it is going to be hard for most vendors to come up with anything that does not violate a patent or two.

 

[EagerDragon]

I have to agree... on one hand, I'm upset that the iPhone isn't going to be on Verizon's network, since they have an amazingly reliable and fast network; yet I'm totally relieved that the iPhone's not going with Verizon since they feel the need to cripple everything that comes with a phone... they disable bluetooth unless you pay for it, their menus are horrible, everything has that horrible red color scheme... basically it slows down every phone they sell...

I'm excited to see how Apple and AT&T work together... I'm hoping there won't be any extraneous AT&T branding on the iPhone. Imagine a phone sold the same way it was produced... it may actually work fast and efficiently!

Verizon cryples the phones, that is why I moved.

 

[EagerDragon]

i find that hard to believe as most big buildings have steel all throughout the building shell which stops most signals the farther in you get. 4 bars on verizon is indicative of a weak signal (they show a relatively high signal, but in fact it's actually much weaker) where as the att is a stronger signal cause it's closer. you might also have a picocell in/on your building

They probably installed a cell repeater on the building, that is likely why the signal is good. Depending on which they install, one will do better than the other.

A lot of buildings I go into like the supermarket have little o no reception regardless of carier.

Some like my pffice, with several repeaters, the signal is great no mater the vendor.

 

[EagerDragon]

Is this exclusivity good business strategy? What exactly is Apple getting by only selling to one cell phone company for five years? I don't see the benefit.

Also, they picked the wrong company. AT&T is hated, and this hatred runs much deeper than Apple/Microsoft. I'm not talking about their bad cell phone service five years ago - I'm talking about an arrogant, aggressive company in the early 1990s that treated the Internet and all of the associated technology like it was a joke.

We still remember, and as far as I know, there hasn't been an apology.

Sorry Tristan, but none of of have the facts and none of us know why Apple made the decisions they made.

Some of us may think the decisions are stupid, but are they?

Do you think that Apple and Steve whose project is the iPhone are both royally stupid?

We are all venting for one thing or another, Apple made those decisions believe me with their eyes wide open, we just don't know the reasons.

I think they made some brilliant moves and some moves it was a matter of the worst of 2 evils, we do not know which is which.

 

[Hummer]

I'm stuck with phone nazi verizon wireless until I get my own job and turn 18. My mom works for verizon so she sticks with verizon wireless because of the discounts and because her co-workers have verizon wireless.

 

[filmgirl]

See, here's the major problem with iPhone having a five year period of exclusivity (and it would be the same problem if it were anything greater than 1 year - to be totally honest) - a $500 and $600 phone is not going to be enough to convert as many people to AT&T as they think...I mean, by their own 10 million sold estimate (which is just an insane number), 1 out of every 5 current AT&T customers would have to get an iPhone...at $500 and $600, that's not going to happen -- not in the United States anyway (unless they can get businesses to adopt it - and the problem with that is that AT&T has ****** business plans). Plus, in 5 years, the iPhone will have real competitors, be on its third generation from Apple. I mean, from the demos I've seen - the interface IS amazing, but the fact remains that unless it can actually be a real replacement for the iPod (which will require it to have a capacity larger than the nano), I can't even see most normal people considering dropping that much dough on a phone (Especially when you know it's going to require either a special plan for a $20 data plan surcharge onto the existing plan). I'm stupid enough to do that sort of thing, but Cingular screwed me -- I hate them, and unless I can be assured that SBC has taken over customer service, I won't touch AT&T...period. Plus, I'd have to pay $20 more a month to get the same plan I have now - and my service with T-Mobile is stellar in my area (and my boyfriend is on Cingular/AT&T and his isn't as great).

Now here's a thought - Apple might have a contract of exclusivity with AT&T for five years, but without seeing the documents, that might only apply to the current iPhone and other iterations that are based on the same series. Meaning that other phones could be made for other providers, as long as they have a different build (even if they do the same thing or look essentially the same...other mobile phone companies have done this in the past to get around exclusive contracts). Unless there is a clause that says they can't make a phone for any other provider, PERIOD, I would expect them to eventually start courting other providers...because being with only one player is just not smart.

When you look at Apple's biggest success, the iPod, you have to examine exactly WHY it is successful. I've done a lot of thinking about this, and I feel very confident saying that it is because they released a version that was compatible with Windows. End of story. When the first iPod came out, I wanted one - I mean, I really wanted one - but as someone who uses Macs at school, but PCs at home, I wasn't able to get one right away. I eventually almost got Mac Opener and some other software that would allow me to use it on my PC, before hearing at one of the MacWorld or MacExpo things that Apple was coming out with a PC version that fall. I literally got one the day it came out. I worked at a large electronics store for five years, and Christmas 2002, I tried to convince people to go iPod, and sold a lot - but it was far from a huge hit. It wasn't until they launched the iTunes store for Windows and made the iPods singularly compatible (meaning both Mac and PC versions were in the same box) that the thing really exploded. What was great about iPod (and the Intel move), was that for the first time, Apple finally bucked the trend of being proprietary and requiring the whole world to come to them. They came to the customer instead. But with iPhone, it's the same old story - you must come to us. And for $600 plus a $60 or $70 monthly phone plan, not a lot of people are going to be knocking themselves out to switch providers to get a cool interface, a low-capacity iPod and a PDA. Especially once the "cool" wears off after 6 months (as soon as more than two people at a party have one, the whole "lust" factor will be over...which is typically when most other big phones drop in price and became easily affordable for everyone -- Apple's going to have a hard time dropping price when they are only selling to one carrier, because AT&T probably would have to take a $400 loss (that's saying they sell the phone for $100 or $200) for every phone they sell in an attempt to win customers, and even with a 2-year contract, that's tough to swallow)).

I mean, I'm sure they have reasons for this -- but Apple doesn't know the mobile phone industry, and the US market is different from other markets -- so I just hope they are prepared to sell under projections and deal with price issues. Because being exclusive to one provider is a risky move - period.