iPhone Flash Support In Early Development

[inkswamp]

I'd like to see Adobe make Flash work on the Mac, first!

Hell, let's make it work properly everywhere first.

I've never been a fan of Flash because I seriously dislike the idea of an entire environment existing within my browser that doesn't behave as if it's part of the browser. For example, you can't open a Flash link in a new window/tab because Flash doesn't know about the browser. I have the same complaint about Java applets. Flash supersedes the browser's settings and therefore the user's wishes. Beyond that, it's overused, often thrown in arbitrarily where a little DHTML know-how would have sufficed and it's bloated enough to where a site with one or two Flash ads will utterly kill Web surfing on an older machine. That's ridiculous.

I sort of liked the idea that the iPhone would shed the need for Flash. With AJAX and some of the newer HTML/CSS effects, Flash is overdue for a swift death.

 

[troyblinka]

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I don't think it is too hard to ask them to send it to your email, not as an email. But you are right and it should be fixed. In time...

 

[TalkAboutApple]

It's good news but of course it would be best if Flash disappeared off the face of the Internet, going the way of those pesky Java applets.

 

[sebastianlewis]

I know sometimes Daniel's blog gets a little crazy with the ideas and it's quite easy to not read them right (and to be honest, his article is a little misleading), but SproutCore is independent of Apple and is like any other open source project Apple contributed to. Please rewrite that misleading footer, after the Macrumors link to RDM yesterday, there's no need to confuse your readers any further.

Apple has been working on a JavaScript framework called SproutCore that would reduce, but not necessarily eliminate, web application dependence on Flash.

 

[nagromme]

We all know Flash's flaws, but it ALSO has some amazing strengths that have NO competition. Namely: unmatched animation tools, a GUI-plus-ECMAscript rapid development environment with a LOT more power than consumers realize, a huge base of developers available who are skilled in it (and making money with it), and wide compatibility with many browsers, even older ones (which SVG etc. cannot claim--and which nothing can claim when it comes to widespread video delivery without asking users to install stuff).

I've seen people called "lazy" for doing things in Flash if they can be done another way. But if my client pays me for four hours' Flash work making an animated menu, I'm not going to take that money and spend twelve hours (turning down two other paying projects!) using a more "open" method that is less widely compatible and offers less sophisticated visuals.

So I'll be very happy to see the iPhone and iPod Touch gain Flash support--if it happens.

The demand is NOT going to go away. I understand why it hasn't happened yet (power drain etc.) but Flash WILL have a place on the Web for a very long time to come. I hope to see other things evolve to replace it for many/most things, but it will be a long time before anything can match the specific advantages of Flash.

 

[razorianfly]

I hope if/when flash does come, Apple also adds an option under;

Settings > Safari

to turn the damn thing off.

R-Fly

 

[obliterations]

How much is this gonna cost anyway? Download flash for 9.99!

I don't care. Id pay for it.

 

[mickhyperion]

If the iPhone can handle the intense graphics of a video game like Super Monkeyball, why would handling a Flash banner or video on a webpage be an issue? Or are these processes handled entirely differently? This is a serious question because I really don't know.

 

[nagromme]

If the iPhone can handle the intense graphics of a video game like Super Monkeyball, why would handling a Flash banner or video on a webpage be an issue? Or are these processes handled entirely differently? This is a serious question because I really don't know.

They're handled differently in at least 2 ways:

Monkey Ball is 3D, using OpenGL and leveraging the 3D capabilities of the GPU hardware, while Flash is its own 2D vector engine.

Monkey Ball and OpenGL are not made be Adobe. Flash is And Adobe has long allowed Flash to be less efficient on non-Windows platforms. That needs to change.

I hope if/when flash does come, Apple also adds an option under;

Settings > Safari

to turn the damn thing off.

R-Fly

Yep--a necessity. Both for sites with annoying ads, and for battery savings, and potentially for security if some bug should be discovered in Flash again. I expect Apple would indeed allow plugins to be disabled, just like with desktop Safari.


By the way, if anyone thinks the "death of Flash" (not happening anyway) would be an end to obnoxious banner ads, they are crazy.

The problem is not Flash, the problem is advertisers... and they are the problem that pays for your Web, so they're not going away.

If Flash were gone, advertisers would STILL need to get your attention, and they would do so by other technologies. With the same obnoxious results.

Saying Flash is a "problem" and the absence of Flash is a "feature," just because of ads, makes no sense. Take away Flash and the same ads would be back overnight.

In fact, if the iPhone keeps taking off and Flash does NOT arrive, then sites will start to target iPhones with non-Flash ads. (Sproutcore? Animated GIF? .H264? Whatever.) Using the absence of Flash as an ad-blocker cannot last forever.

In which case, give me my Flash games and my Flash menus and my Flash video! They don't even have to load slowly--that expectation comes from a few bad apples. (The problem there is BADLY done Flash. And any other technology can be implemented wastefully too.)

 

[kobefan234]

finally FLASH SUPPORT COMING!

and there is no flash on the mac? how do you watch youtube?

 

[swarmster]

finally FLASH SUPPORT COMING!

and there is no flash on the mac? how do you watch youtube?

There is barely flash on the Mac. Try watching a flash video on a G4 and...you'll.....have.......to.........watch...........it.............like...............this.

And don't even think about going to a site with the precious flash navigation menus mentioned above.

Now try doing any of that on a 1GHz PC from the same era (or even earlier), and it runs just fine. Totally inexcusable.

 

[EagerDragon]

"Still on the computer"...

So, just as with TomTom, it sounds like Adobe hasn't gotten a developer on-unit test license yet either.

I mean, it makes a weird sort of sense to limit developer licenses to a broad spectrum of apps at first, but to totally ignore the biggest names in the business?

And is not likely to be accepted. Apple does not want Flash in the iPhone and Flash violates the development EULA for the SDK.

Flash on the iPhone is NOT going to happen.

 

[nagromme]

Apple does not want Flash in the iPhone

That, I think, it assuming a lot.

There is no Flash existing now that Apple would find acceptable on the iPhone. (Nor iPhone users for that matter.) Battery life and performance and compatibility (meaning no Flash Lite!) have to be solved.

And Apple doesn't directly care a lot about having Flash on the iPhone. It's a zero priority or they'd be helping Adobe with it more.

And in general, Apple and Adobe are in competition in some areas--it's not all a rosy partnership.

But I don't think you can go further than that and say for sure that they specifically want to keep Flash OFF of the iPhone, even a new, efficient iPhone-specific version. Maybe they do, but I don't see the evidence to be so sure.

Apple has nothing to compete with Flash, and therefore are not going to make Flash go away no matter what they do. I think they know that. (And that could change, but not quickly--the Flash developers of the world are not going to jump on some future Apple tool overnight.)

And Apple has shown that they WILL sometimes jump on board with competitors' technologies when the demand is there--look at Exchange support for instance.

So I think it's highly likely that Apple WILL allow Flash on the iPhone (not work hard to make it happen, just allow it) IF and only IF Adobe can make it perform the way it should.

I don't see the SDK terms being a barrier. Apple can waive those in specific cases if they want to.

I seriously doubt that Apple has secretly decided "we will never allow Flash on the iPhone no matter what." How would that benefit them? I think they're playing wait and see.

(And I hope we get a better OS X plugin out of this process too! Although recent Macs are so fast it no longer matters.)

 

[fishkorp]

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Personally, I can see a standalone Flash app and when you hit a site that has an embedded Flash video, the link would be like flash://URL just like maps, phone numbers, etc. That way Adobe stays within SDK terms and users get Flash.

 

[Niiro13]

If the iPhone 3g can readily handle 3G and GPS with enough juice to spare why is Flash such a big deal now? Steve's claim that he was concerned with battery life shouldn't make a difference now, no?

Battery life wasn't the only issue. The iPhone's specs can't handle the current Flash for desktop computers...at least not in the way some people wanted them to (like veoh, flash games, etc.)...it was laggy and slow.

And Flash Lite is terrible compared to what the iPhone could handle.

So now here's Flash in between.

The main concern too was that Adobe wasn't able to really go for embedded Flash or Flash in the background because of the SDK agreement. I'm guessing they're doing it like Apple does YouTube where if you tap a YouTube link, it opens Flash player? =/.

The icon better look good on the home screen =P.

 

[djrobsd]

It will be nice to be able to listen to XM on my iPhone through XM's online player.

One of the negative things about the Sirius and XM merger is the lack of additional development for either platform until the whole merger is sorted out... So, after they merge I'm sure you'll see something, but until then, sit back and be patient. LOL

 

[EagerDragon]

That, I think, it assuming a lot.

There is no Flash existing now that Apple would find acceptable on the iPhone. (Nor iPhone users for that matter.) Battery life and performance and compatibility (meaning no Flash Lite!) have to be solved.

And Apple doesn't directly care a lot about having Flash on the iPhone. It's a zero priority or they'd be helping Adobe with it more.

And in general, Apple and Adobe are in competition in some areas--it's not all a rosy partnership.

But I don't think you can go further than that and say for sure that they specifically want to keep Flash OFF of the iPhone, even a new, efficient iPhone-specific version. Maybe they do, but I don't see the evidence to be so sure.

Apple has nothing to compete with Flash, and therefore are not going to make Flash go away no matter what they do. I think they know that. (And that could change, but not quickly--the Flash developers of the world are not going to jump on some future Apple tool overnight.)

And Apple has shown that they WILL sometimes jump on board with competitors' technologies when the demand is there--look at Exchange support for instance.

So I think it's highly likely that Apple WILL allow Flash on the iPhone (not work hard to make it happen, just allow it) IF and only IF Adobe can make it perform the way it should.

I don't see the SDK terms being a barrier. Apple can waive those in specific cases if they want to.

I seriously doubt that Apple has secretly decided "we will never allow Flash on the iPhone no matter what." How would that benefit them? I think they're playing wait and see.

(And I hope we get a better OS X plugin out of this process too! Although recent Macs are so fast it no longer matters.)

You seem to be assuming also, even assuming that Apple will set aside the SDK License and disregarding that Apple have their own solution for an open source methodology to do a lot of what flash does.

But everyone has the right to their own opinion.

 

[Luveno]

If the iPhone 3g can readily handle 3G and GPS with enough juice to spare why is Flash such a big deal now? Steve's claim that he was concerned with battery life shouldn't make a difference now, no?

Even on a c2d mbp, some flash files (i'm looking at you, video) peg my cpu. I think if flash can man-handle a full blown machine that much, it would likely be able to kill battery pretty quick for some folks.

 

[nagromme]

You seem to be assuming also, even assuming that Apple will set aside the SDK License and disregarding that Apple have their own solution for an open source methodology to do a lot of what flash does.

But everyone has the right to their own opinion.

I'm not assuming it's certain--in fact I DO think it's possible Apple permanently opposes Flash, already at this early stage (shame that they haven't told Adobe if so). But I believe it's most likely they don't, since I see no evidence for why Apple would want to block it, and plenty of evidence for why Apple would want to allow it.

Many seem quite certain in the other direction, but I don't see the cause of their certainty. (Some, I think, wish to defend the iPhone as it now stands. No need--it's already a fine platform without Flash.)

 

[Roller]

You seem to be assuming also, even assuming that Apple will set aside the SDK License and disregarding that Apple have their own solution for an open source methodology to do a lot of what flash does.

But everyone has the right to their own opinion.

The comment was made by Adobe's CEO during a conference call with analysts. So it's unlikely that this represents some minor proof-of-concept tinkering by an engineer or two. Does it mean that Adobe has Apple's blessing? Not necessarily, although I suspect there's been a lot of back-channel communication between Apple and Adobe on this.

Personally, I'd like to see some sort of Flash support on the iPhone. Say what you will about its overuse on the Web, but the fact is that many Web pages currently don't work without Flash.

 

[nagromme]

The comment was made by Adobe's CEO during a conference call with analysts. So it's unlikely that this represents some minor proof-of-concept tinkering by an engineer or two. Does it mean that Adobe has Apple's blessing? Not necessarily, although I suspect there's been a lot of back-channel communication between Apple and Adobe on this.

My suspicion--seeing as how Adobe hasn't even been let into the SDK beta!--is that Apple is giving Adobe no attention at all. And that this announcement, vague as it is, is partly to keep pressure on Apple, by keeping the public aware that Adobe is at work on this.

 

[UTclassof89]

iPhone supports Flash.... maybe...

I asked the fine folks who answer the Apple store chat board if the 3G iPhone will support Flash. Two different people gave an unequivocal "yes". (admittedly, these are not always the brightest bulbs, nor is their info always accurate). Tonight I asked a third person who refused to answer ("that's a product that's in 'prerelease'" she said, so she can't comment on the final feature set).

And to those who wish Flash would go away, I'm sorry you've been subjected to ill-conceived Flash content, but don't impugn the technology because some people don't know how to use it (I recall some awful JavaScript usage in the mid nineties)

 

[rockinrocker]

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Personally, I can see a standalone Flash app and when you hit a site that has an embedded Flash video, the link would be like flash://URL just like maps, phone numbers, etc. That way Adobe stays within SDK terms and users get Flash.

i like this idea. similar to the "tap on an icon for each instance of flash on a page". we get the flash content we want without the lag/battery drain of what we don't.....

sounds ideal.

 

[zarusoba]

Now if we can get a copy/past rumor I'll be all set.

There's no copy/paste on the iPhone??

 

[TheNightPhoenix]

I agree!
I'm honestly fine with Apple's decision to not support MMS.
But why on earth that annoying message can't be clickable is beyond me.
The fact this has not been remedied might suggest it's more complex than we understand.

Meh.

Mine is

But I'm guessing you on AT&T, I'm on O2 in the UK.
They send a link with a 4 letter pass code. It's works rather well, but i prefer to use...

http://www.iapps.co.uk/o2mms/
YOu sign up with your passcode and they have a iphone webapp for loggin into o2 and emailing the MMs to yourself. Very neat.