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the Blackberry Tour for example can use the Blackberry App Store or any other app store it wants.
The BB Tour has no GPS lock so any one can use the GPS on it.
On the Tour you can add your own ring tones.

You can do these things now. These are fairly recent changes for Verizon. And you can thank iPhone/AT&T for this. These are direct responses to the iPhone threat.

Now there is no WiFi on any blackberry on Verzon but that is because no CDMA blackberry currently out has WiFi on it but some Verizon phones have WiFi.

And you think that was RIM's decision? To put WiFi in their GSM models but not their CDMA models? Riiiight.

In case you are wondering it is that way for all smart phones now on Verizon.

Again, you can thank Apple, the company you hate, for these changes.

Ouch.
 
Seeing as the iPhone a native product to the US, it should be on all of the networks here. JUST BECAUSE. I personally think Euro/Asian countries shouldn't even get 3GS exports because they never do the same when we're on the receiving end (we always get Sony and Nokia's last gen junk, why should they get our first gen stuff?)

But back to the point...

I think a CDMA iPhone needs to happen, and an AWS iPhone needs to happen (both are used in Canada and Latin America). That not only makes Apple's avenues of sale better, but it will probably increase their profits (although not AT&T's).

If they want to bind to a carrier to keep the bottom line low, they could do it with Sprint. Why not? Sprint is dying for more business right now, and the Verizon people get a CDMA iPhone they can buy unlocked.
 
There is a lot of criticism towards AT&T regarding the iPhone. As an ex-Verizon customer, I don't see Verizon handling the situation much better. Millions of individuals have either upgraded from basic mobile devices to iPhones, or have switched to AT&T for the iPhone. Everyone from suburban housewives and high school kids to executives, the iPhone was the "it" thing. Imagine the load the network has faced, especially on the 1900 bandwidth. That is still no excuse, AT&T should have either foreseen a tax on their system or in the least have remedied the situation while it was occurring. Regardless, even if the iPhone does port to an EV-DO/CDMA/4G network (which ever occurs), I'll still be sticking with AT&T. My monthly bill is lower than my years of using Verizon (AT&T even discounted $30/month when I called to complain about the service in SoCal - which is another issue), and I'd prefer to have a phone that can be used internationally. AT&T has been setting up 850 bandwidth in major cities and loading up on 3G and soon 4G towers, offering the iPhone on another US carrier should push AT&T to improve their service in a more competitive environment. In the end, offering the device on other US carriers is a win/win for customers in many regards.

Oh and to address comments that Verizon allows ring tones, etc. Back in 2004/2005, before I switched to then Cingular, Verizon DID NOT allow ringtones or ObEx. In fact, Verizon was sued and lost against plaintiffs (myself included) who bought a Motorola v710 and were told that the ObEx (bluetooth file exchange) would not be crippled. Well, it was crippled with firmware Verizon released in order to force its customers to pay for their "Get It Now" service, a business decision that Verizon later admitted to when the court showed interoffice documents suggesting how to make more money off its customer base. Cingular/AT&T did not cripple their phones. As LagunaSol stated, the iPhone soon forced Verizons hand (as well as the numerous lawsuits they faced), resulting in Verizon changing their business "strategy".
 
Actually --- Apple made the wrong call because they insisted on full priced $600 iphone with a 2 year contract with revenue sharing. A model that quickly failed --- beginning with the quick $200 price drop, to dragging negotiations with UK, French and German carriers (and delaying European launch), to delaying full worldwide launch by a year (nobody else besides the original 4 carriers agreed on revenue sharing).
You're forgetting that many of the components in the initial iPhone hadn't really been in high-volume commercial production before. I feel pretty confident that Apple intentionally set the price in line with its production, and the moment they were able to solve their production issues and lower their internal costs, they knew to push that on to consumers. I've always assumed this to be a convenient excuse not to have demand get out of hand on a device whose hype was out of control. Moreover, its precisely the way Motorola rolled out its Razr. Of course they made the right call. In a worst case scenario, if anything had gone wrong rolling out its first phone, and they had to do a major recall, they'd be screwed. Instead, they offered people free replacements and quietly swapped phones out through their retail outlets.
That's not even including the effects on Palm and RIM. Palm was teetering near death for the past few years --- if Apple went with Verizon and expanded worldwide quickly (i.e. no idiotic revenue sharing pipe dream), Palm would have been wiped out quickly. If Apple went with Verizon and there would have been no buy one get one free blackberry/verizon promotion, RIM would have been much weaker.
First... what makes you think going with the CDMA Verizon network, would have made Apple MORE able to roll-out "worldwide" service for the device? That makes ZERO sense. Also, I'm not sure you're appreciating what the "revenue sharing" did or did not effect.

Also, I think you're envisioning some sort of alternate reality where Verizon would have let the iPhone be the iPhone. Cingular bent over backwards for Apple. There is a reason why Verizon has been slow to having a really good phone line-up. Historically, it's always been about their network and NOT the phone (Verizon services, Verizon apps, Verizon branding). Also, Verizon's smart phone pricing absolutely SUCKED when the iPhone came out. Not even AT&T changed their prices for the iPhone. Verizon would not have either. Only T-Mobile came up to bat by finally offering an unlimited plan just before the iPhone launched on a competing network.

--And, let's be clear, NOTHING would have "wiped Palm out quicker" than they'd been wiping themselves out. Whether iPhone was on Verizon or AT&T, Palm's situation wouldn't have been much different.

~ CB
 
From a consumer's point of view, why would you care? When you move to a new carrier, you sign a 2 year contract and they give you a free phone.

Having different standards promotes competition.

Not really. One radio standard, TCP/IP is a standard, yet I do not see any problems with competition.

This needs to be standardized then you can have real competition when any handset can be configured via software to work on any carrier. (ie all carriers could offer the iphone etc..)
 
the RAZR had Bluetooth & USB file access, making transferring photos to a PC easy & free ... but Verizon ripped out that ability in favor of forcing customers to either transfer photos at $0.05 each or do a physical card swap, both of which are annoying at best.

? I've accessed my RAZR over bluetooth with my Mac for years. I move photos in and off of it all the time.
 
Right! Thats just what we need. More government control of the private sector thus, your life. And, look what happened when they broke up Ma Bell. Prices didn't drop, they went up.

Actually Ma Bell was under heavy government control, even price controls etc..

They broke up and now they are recombining.

Back in the days you had to rent your telephone you could not buy it, you could not attach any modem to the line etc.., But then came the Carterphone decision etc..

Everything was controlled and long distance calls back then were like 60-70 cents a minute (back then)


You cannot have a pure capitalistic laissez faire market, if you did you would end up with one super corporation that would control everything. Super Generalelectricat&tgoldmandsachscorporation.

:)
 
Kind of like how Apple dissed ATT by leaving then off of show slides?

Or like how Jobs used to make fun of Intel chips? ;)



Verizon and ATT have the same rates for voice and data these days. Regular smartphone data is $30 on either one.



LTE is not based on GSM. It's new. However, many GSM and CDMA carriers have chosen it for 4G, and are running trials to make sure that their LTE implementation can fall back to their older protocol.

And, as long as LTE phones have to also contain a GSM or CDMA radio, that radio will most likely continue to be used for voice calls.

Your exactly right. Verizon is moving to LTE for data, however voice will still be carried through CDMA. Here is some information from Verizon CTO Tony Melone:

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009...celerate-lte-keep-cdma-and-lower-data-prices/

Just as Apple had Mac running OSX with Intel processors years before the transition from PPC to Intel I can promise there are already iPhone CDMA/LTE prototypes. Technology companies always have a back-up plan and I can assure you that Verizon is the back-up plan in the United States.

I always laughed when AT&T fanboys tried to claim it would cost so much for Apple to try to engineer a CDMA phone they would never make a profit on it. Hmm... really? The sales possibilities on Verizon far outweigh the tiny amount of engineering a different radio into the phone. Like I said before I am sure the engineering has already been done.
 
Possible translation of CEO's statement.

You could see that statement translated this way.

"Boy did we blow it when I we killed the iPhone deal when we insisted only on customer activation of the iPhone in Verizon stores. This has to be the first phone in a long while where the user interface and experience overrode the quality of the network it was connected to for service. Now with the AT&T exclusive period starting to sunset, we have a shot at this device. We are not as audacious as we were before and we now know that Steve Jobs and Apple is a consumer products Mt. Olympus. I hope we can get half the deal we were supposed to get if we weren't so full of ourselves due to our network quality and coverage ratings."

You heard it here first be it right or wrong.
 
Ah, but you are missing something.

By putting an LTE radio in the iPhone 4G you are allowing it to use all legacy networks, effectively letting Apple use the current verizon 3g network without having to design a CDMA iPhone.


From the wiki: "LTE will also support seamless passing to cell towers with older network technology such as GSM, cdmaOne, W-CDMA (UMTS), and CDMA2000."

It is also worth noting that Vodafone (49% owner of Verizon) is not launching the iPhone until 2010, suggesting that the next generation may well be LTE, allowing Voda/Verizon to gain leverage with Apple on price.

Why else would they wait?
 
That just sounds crazy. Not disagreeing with you... Just the thought of LTE & CDMA sounds ridiculous.

If they have a very stable CDMA/1xRTT voice network why rip it out and replace it? EV-DO will be replaced by LTE for data. Someday I would imagine that VoIP will handle the voice portion, but it sounds like that is further down the road.

Remember Verizon is the main provider in the rural areas. CDMA has some real advantages in the wide open spaces where weaker signals are present.
 
It's to Apple's benefit to have its smart phone on as many carriers as possible. More carriers = more units sold for Apple. If that means making a CDMA version, Apple will do it. It's relatively simple from an engineering standpoint, and then the iPhone could migrate to Sprint as well. Apple wants to increase market share like anyone. The fact that we're not seeing iPhone on Verizon or Sprint points to more than just the GSM vs. CDMA issue. I suspect it has a lot to do with branding and the high level of control desired by Apple. Not having the iPhone on Verizon is a good thing. It gives Apple and AT&T a large, viable competitor.

Verizon is extremely old school. It took them two years to open up the Blackberry's GPS to Blackberry's own native map application - Blackberry Maps. Even then, you could not use the built-in GPS THAT YOU PAID FOR with any other application except Verizon's own VZ Navigator that costs an extra $9.95/mo. When Apple approached Verizon, the first thing Verizon probably did was tell Apple all of the wonderful features that needed to be disabled so that Verizon would make more money selling those features back to consumers on a pay-as-you-go basis. Such a philosophy will ultimately be Verizon's downfall, and is also a big reason why the latest smart phones and handsets show up on Verizon over a year after their GSM counterparts.

You can make your own ringtones without paying for them? NO!
You can use your GPS with any application? NO!
You can buy apps? Great, change the name of the app store to vzApps
You can play songs? Great, change the name of iTunes to vzTunes
Can't use Mobile Me, not secure enough for our network

The above are the typical kinds of lines you can expect from Verizon. I love Verizon coverage, but I defected because the iPhone was just too sexy and useful for me. I get much more done on my iPhone w/ AT&T than I could have ever accomplished with a Blackberry on Verizon, but I still wish I had the Verizon network.
 
First... what makes you think going with the CDMA Verizon network, would have made Apple MORE able to roll-out "worldwide" service for the device? That makes ZERO sense. Also, I'm not sure you're appreciating what the "revenue sharing" did or did not effect.

What made carriers around the world to embrace the iphone in 80+ countries?

Apple dropping their revenue sharing demand.
 
You could see that statement translated this way.

"Boy did we blow it when I we killed the iPhone deal when we insisted only on customer activation of the iPhone in Verizon stores. This has to be the first phone in a long while where the user interface and experience overrode the quality of the network it was connected to for service. Now with the AT&T exclusive period starting to sunset, we have a shot at this device. We are not as audacious as we were before and we now know that Steve Jobs and Apple is a consumer products Mt. Olympus. I hope we can get half the deal we were supposed to get if we weren't so full of ourselves due to our network quality and coverage ratings."

You heard it here first be it right or wrong.

But Verizon wants only 1/2 the deal --- their half of the deal. Apple's demands are gone --- no more $600 iphone without handset subsidy with a 2 year contract with revenue sharing, no more Apple store and AT&T corporate store only distribution, no more Apple only tech support (overseas carriers handle iphone tech support)....
 
I always laughed when AT&T fanboys tried to claim it would cost so much for Apple to try to engineer a CDMA phone they would never make a profit on it. Hmm... really? The sales possibilities on Verizon far outweigh the tiny amount of engineering a different radio into the phone. Like I said before I am sure the engineering has already been done.

There are always sales possibilities. Apple could open the iPhone to every carrier, thus creating "virtual unlimited" sales possibilities. Apple chose GSM for the global outreach of their product, thus creating larger sales possibilities, at least during their initial launch.

YES. Apple COULD choose to put in the $1-$2 part (just guessing on this cost), to do CDMA and move to Verizon. Competition is good, yes for the consumer; not the company.

By spreading demand over a larger amount of carriers, Apple is effectively reducing demand for the product. TECHNICALLY, you are right. Demand will be the same, Apple "SHOULD" be able to increase their market share by moving to various carriers in the U.S. However, psychologically by limiting the iPhone to one carrier (at least in the U.S.) you create an artificial demand, thus demand increases with one carrier.
 
What made carriers around the world to embrace the iphone in 80+ countries? Apple dropping their revenue sharing demand.
You're looking at this whole thing upside down and inside out in my opinion. In fact, you're logic is so twisted, I can't address one thing without explaining why 3 others aren't connected the way you have them clicked in there.

Let's start fresh and simply say that you think Apple's revenue-sharing model held it back. I would no more connect that to Verizon than saying that AT&T is the sole cause of Apple's GSM strategy, and why the iPhone is able to be a "world-phone" like Blackberry and enjoy broad support across the globe. The two things are related but separate.

Suffice it to say, that had Apple gone with Verizon, there would have been a multitude of repercussions, and they would not have all been good, or advantageous to either company (especially depending on the outcome of negotiations between them).

As Apple's senior executives are quick to point out, they decided early on to have a "one phone" for the world strategy. This has served them well. This strategy would not have been as practical (by EVERYONE'S measure) had Apple began in the U.S. with Verizon.

So. I believe Apple made the right call, and I believe that Verizon made the right call. Both companies are doing gangbusters. Apple with a historic quarter, and Verizon making huge advances in its subscribership. Is the iPhone impacting Verizon? Sure. Is Apple affected by NOT being on Verizon? Why not? Should the two get together and make sexy music together? Depends on a lot of things. Most of which... are less than likely to ever happen.

~ CB
 
As Apple's senior executives are quick to point out, they decided early on to have a "one phone" for the world strategy.

Not really, otherwise they would have chosen one of the radio chipsets that supports both CDMA *and* GSM.

That's right, all of these arguments about GSM *or* CDMA become silly as soon as one realizes that some chipsets support both.
 
You're looking at this whole thing upside down and inside out in my opinion. In fact, you're logic is so twisted, I can't address one thing without explaining why 3 others aren't connected the way you have them clicked in there.

Let's start fresh and simply say that you think Apple's revenue-sharing model held it back. I would no more connect that to Verizon than saying that AT&T is the sole cause of Apple's GSM strategy, and why the iPhone is able to be a "world-phone" like Blackberry and enjoy broad support across the globe. The two things are related but separate.

Suffice it to say, that had Apple gone with Verizon, there would have been a multitude of repercussions, and they would not have all been good, or advantageous to either company (especially depending on the outcome of negotiations between them).

As Apple's senior executives are quick to point out, they decided early on to have a "one phone" for the world strategy. This has served them well. This strategy would not have been as practical (by EVERYONE'S measure) had Apple began in the U.S. with Verizon.

So. I believe Apple made the right call, and I believe that Verizon made the right call. Both companies are doing gangbusters. Apple with a historic quarter, and Verizon making huge advances in its subscribership. Is the iPhone impacting Verizon? Sure. Is Apple affected by NOT being on Verizon? Why not? Should the two get together and make sexy music together? Depends on a lot of things. Most of which... are less than likely to ever happen.

~ CB



Ahhh.... VERY well said.
 
You can do these things now. These are fairly recent changes for Verizon. And you can thank iPhone/AT&T for this. These are direct responses to the iPhone threat.

And you think that was RIM's decision? To put WiFi in their GSM models but not their CDMA models? Riiiight.

Again, you can thank Apple, the company you hate, for these changes.

Ouch.

Wow some one really full of themselves and really thinks the iPhone was THAT game changing.

Now lets go for the truth on the blackberriers.

Wifi on blackberries is pretty new. The bold was the first BB to even have WiFi. The others released before hand did not have WiFi.

The CDMA guys did not get WiFi because they general had a faster network and the phones CDMA could outpace the what the phone could handle any how so WiFi really would not speed things up. They have added in in the Storm 2.
Tour was in the dev line up before WiFi pressure got added. For proof of this look at sprint which has a lack of locking down phone and look back and when those phones started getting wifi.

Also the only feature locked out on blackberries was GPS. Other wise the users could download and install any app they wanted. (Verizon Bash fail)

The iPhone did not change WiFi being added. It was not the first smart phone to come up with built in WiFi.

But thanks for the laugh and standard misinformation I see from many apple fans.
 
Not really, otherwise they would have chosen one of the radio chipsets that supports both CDMA *and* GSM.

That's right, all of these arguments about GSM *or* CDMA become silly as soon as one realizes that some chipsets support both.


Exclusivity creates demand. Demand powers supply, which powers profits. Apple is well on their way (actually they've already created it) to creating World wide demand for their product. When they feel that demand is sufficient enough, they will expand to other carriers, until subscribers stop moving to AT&T to get the iPhone.. Apple has no incentive to expand. Let's make this clear, this is a U.S only issue really.. the rest of the world already operates on GSM. The move to Verizon is solely a U.S only issue.

Let me think. Verizon subscribers vs. the rest of the world? Oopps.. the world wins... sorry, at least in the eyes of Apple. AT&T's network sucks virtually because of the iPhone. And Verizon's network would suck just as bad if they were the exclusive U.S provider of the iPhone.
 
Wow some one really full of themselves and really thinks the iPhone was THAT game changing.

Now lets go for the truth on the blackberriers.

Wifi on blackberries is pretty new. The bold was the first BB to even have WiFi. The others released before hand did not have WiFi.

The CDMA guys did not get WiFi because they general had a faster network and the phones CDMA could outpace the what the phone could handle any how so WiFi really would not speed things up. They have added in in the Storm 2.
Tour was in the dev line up before WiFi pressure got added. For proof of this look at sprint which has a lack of locking down phone and look back and when those phones started getting wifi.

Also the only feature locked out on blackberries was GPS. Other wise the users could download and install any app they wanted. (Verizon Bash fail)

The iPhone did not change WiFi being added. It was not the first smart phone to come up with built in WiFi.

But thanks for the laugh and standard misinformation I see from many apple fans.

wait... sorry.. so your telling me, that BlackBERRIES didn't have wifi before, but they will soon have wifi.. (rev 2 models). Your also telling me that CDMA is faster than wifi??? The STORM (rev 1.) didn't come with WIFI, and it was supposed to be an "iPhone Killer".

The TOUR was in development before WIFI got pressured? and the first rev. doesn't have wifi.. but the second will.. and the iPhone hasn't had an impact on this at all???? Ok... (being serious) what phone came up with Wifi as a standard option then? Because I CAN'T think of a smartphone that had wifi before the iPhone, honestly..
 
Ok... (being serious) what phone came up with Wifi as a standard option then? Because I CAN'T think of a smartphone that had wifi before the iPhone, honestly..

Oh wow.

*raises hand*

meh.... it's like you were born in 2007.
 
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