iPhone Rate Plans for Germany?

[swagi]

This is the beauty of Hotspots, though, as many ICE trains have them. So you could take an ICE from Frankfurt to Berlin, and possibly access unlimited WiFi for free the entire journey!

HotSpot-Flatrate is 14.95 €. So you could basically factor this one out. But, apart from speed, what do I need a factored in HotSpot-Flatrate, while I also have a data flatrate?

This is part of the equation I don't get. I could get that Flatrate, but won't. And that's just because 3G data rate is fine and the data plans aren't that horrible. I personally don't even use up to the amount of data, that a 25 € unlimited data plan would make sense.

I had a perfect internet experience in Bad Wildungen using 3G, while the only available HotSpot would've been in the Maritim hotel.

Essence for me: If the iPhone only had 3G, I'd get a French unlocked one! So here's to waiting and watching eBay!

 

[Papajohn56]

This cements my belief that T-Mobile is the worst cell phone company in the world. No mobile to mobile minutes in the US, just the 5 people in your favorites is all.

 

[DrV]

Germany vs. Europe

I do not want to justify the "ugly" rates but i want to help understand the ridiculous price structures here in europe.

The German situation does not reflect telecom sector in Europe in general. Their former national telecom operator (DT) used to do everything to make life difficult for competition. The German government also collected tens of billions of euros of tax-like fees from the operators back in 2000 (the 3G license auction).

If we talk about the telecom sector at the EU level, the situation is different. The Commission tries to open the market as well as possible. I have seen several comparisons of call prices in the EU. The results depend on what is compared (how many minutes, SMSs, data plan, etc.), but in general Sweden or Finland tend to be the least expensive and Germany the most expensive, the difference being roughly triple.

There is a positive feedback in this. When the call prices are reasonable, people call a lot. Almost everyone has a cell phone, and land lines are disappearing rapidly. This ensures a lot of income to the carriers as the net number of call minutes is high. The more there is traffic the less the network costs per minute/megabyte/whatever.

In several European countries operator locking is very strictly regulated, as it tends to dilute competition. This seems to have a strong correlation with call charges. Of course, the carriers know this and lobby against it very desperately. The trick Apple is trying is simply against the European Commission thinking.

Of course, one might think that fierce competition makes the carriers unprofitable and thus the networks will deteriorate. They haven't as people keep on demanding 3G, 3.5G, 3Gturbo, etc. No one will keep using a network with bad coverage.

Summa summarum, Germany is a very bad sample if you want to say something about the telecom sector in Europe.

 

[Sceneshifter]

i can just see it now.. two german iphone owners both sitting and waiting for the other one to call..

haha :-D

 

[Confidemus]

The tariffs are good

Hi all,

At the moment (I'm German) I paid with Vodafone for 260 minutes actual usage of September 105 Euros. This included the home-zone and some other features like limited UMTS usage. The UMTS was unusable due to the crippled interface of my mobile phone. So I sometimes used the mobile as a bluetooth modem for my MacBook. But this was on rare occasions because of the availability of WiFi on many places. So the T-Mobile tariffs are o.k. for me.

To the UMTS - part of the prices: The statistic says (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versteigerung_der_UMTS-Lizenzen_in_Deutschland) that the licence costs have been 620 Euros per inhabitant in Germany (that is 620 Euros x 82 Mill. = 50 Bill. Euro). This has to be financed by all mobile phone users in Germany, not only those who are using UMTS.

Confidemus

 

[aramelus]

Well this prices will probably kill the IPhone in Germany. Apple isn't that strong in Germany anyway.
The cheapest prepaid price in Germany is at the moment something like 10cent per minute and per SMS. But this is without a contract so you only pay what you actually use. Unlimited 3G traffic costs 25€ per month. So the price should be something like 35€-40€ considering a 2 year contract.

But T-Mobile always sucked and they prove it again

 

[fattyreflyer]

Well, of course all the Americans, who have no idea about German cell phone rates, are trashing the prices and rating this negative, even though incoming calls are free to users.

Outgoing calls have ALWAYS been expensive - hence the HUGE use of SMS messages by young Germans to keep down their charges. A way to chat with each other on the cheap.

All outgoing phone calls on fixed lines, even local, are charged by the minute to the caller. When I lived in Germany a few years ago I used to pay more, per minute, to call my downstairs neighbor than to call the US or Canada. Of course calls to Handys (cell phones) are very expensive, but that's part of their stucture that people are used to.

FYI, here's a random comment from a GERMAN on the site wher ethe original article was: "Ich find EUR 50 absolut OK dafuer das EDGE und HotSpots flat dabei sind (wenn es dann wirklich FLAT ist)." If it really is flat rate, HE has no problem with the pricing if he can use TMobile's Hotspots.

Don't forget that Germany is a very concentrated country (smaller than Montana, with 82 million people). Free WiFi makes a ton of sense for surfing using an iPhone.

Actually its pretty common now that most fixed line plans are all-inclusive for unlimited calls to the festnetz (Germany-wide network). From a public telephone though you pay per 10 secs or whatever to any phone.

Also free WiFi here, at least in Frankfurt, is as common as a German with a natural suntan. There are certainly pre-paid or subscription based possibilities (also through t-mobile) but strictly free just doesn't happen here so much.

I pay about 22 Euro a month with O2, so 49 minimum is not going to interest me (+ the cost of the phone).

But I do not doubt that people will go with it here. It will be considered trendy/fashionable to own one and people will pay it for sure.

 

[gifford]

I live in UK. I pay £25 a month and i get...
FREE Sony Erricson P990i (stylus input PDA phone)
800 minutes
unlimited texts
plus insurance

which i dont think is too bad a deal.

 

[Cuckoo]

wow, i'm glad i've got a hacked phone, and judging from these rates, my next phone will be hacked or non-apple... this is one of the most redicilous plans i've ever seen....

 

[christian_k]

It seem like they are being shafted, however it depends on what they pay now for other similar smartphone plans.

Example from EPlus (Germany):

24 month contract ("zehnsation web"),
Nokia E61i for 399 (same price as iPhone).

Per month: 10 Eur. This includes 50 free texts/ month.
Outgoing calls are 0,10 Eur/min and outgoing texts are 0,10 Eur/min.
Incoming calls & texts are free.

You should have an additional data option, for example
250 MB / month (that is more than enough for most mobile users) is 9,95 / month. This includes 3G access.
A flatrate would be 25 Eur/month, but keep in mind that unsing this with a notebook is not just allowed, it is even suggested by the operator. (The iPhone cannot be used as a "modem" w/o hacking.)

Note: The device is unlocked and can be used with any SIM.
You can easily save another 150+ Eur on the device, if you don't buy directly at EPlus, but at an independent retailer.

Christian

 

[Dembo]

Damn... I was expecting the 50,- €/month but I was hoping for more than 100min and 40 SMS is just pathetic. Terrible when compared to the UK offer and even worse considering that it's for 24 months not just 18.

As others pointed out: If you build yourself a 100min/month + unlimited (i.e. 5Gbyte, I am sure that the iPhone won't be unlimited) with T-mobile you end up somewhere in that region. However, that would've been HSDPA not essentially GPRS. Bastards.

Now what, my existing ontract will finished exactly on November 9. (great timing, eh?) so it's either: iPhone + crazy contract now or no iPhone for 24 months.

And for all the: Just drive over to France people: Do you really think "has to be available without contract" as stated in the French law means you will be able to acctually buy it? I bet there will be difficulties due to the "low amount of iPhones available and customers with contracts being served first"...

Does look more and more like no iPhone for me for the next two years...

 

[emotion]

I live in UK. I pay £25 a month and i get...
FREE Sony Erricson P990i (stylus input PDA phone)
800 minutes
unlimited texts
plus insurance

which i dont think is too bad a deal.

No data and no wifi.

No doubt the O2 deal isn't that great for the iPhone but for most people it's a premium worth paying.

I predict a lot of iPhone unlocking going on in Germany.

 

[Diatribe]

No data and no wifi.

No doubt the O2 deal isn't that great for the iPhone but for most people it's a premium worth paying.

I predict a lot of iPhone unlocking going on in Germany.

Or buying an unlocked version in France.

 

[emotion]

Or buying an unlocked version in France.

There's no way that's going to be easy.

 

[Diatribe]

There's no way that's going to be easy.

Why? The only real barrier Apple can implement here is the price.

 

[emotion]

Why? The only real barrier Apple can implement here is the price.

It only has to be available. Not necessarily _widely_ available.

Try and buy a Touch in the UK a month after launch date....it's still hard.

 

[tripwire]

I really don't understand why anyone would buy a 2.5G phone at these prices with a 2yr contract.
I can't imagine Apple not releasing a 3.5G version with 16G flash in the first half of next year.

 

[emotion]

I really don't understand why anyone would buy a 2.5G phone at these prices with a 2yr contract.
I can't imagine Apple not releasing a 3.5G version with 16G flash in the first half of next year.

I predict November 08 for that release.

As for 2.5G. There's a danger in chasing specs and not considering what the device can actually do and how it does it (in terms of ease-of-use).

 

[tripwire]

I predict November 08 for that release.

As for 2.5G. There's a danger in chasing specs and not considering what the device can actually do and how it does it (in terms of ease-of-use).

So you reckon that either Apple will just do a 16GB version of the current phone in the 1st half of next year, or that they will not update the hardware in the coming 12 months?
I find that hard to believe.
On 2.5G, and speaking from experience,I think it's way too slow for websurfing.

 

[emotion]

So you reckon that either Apple will just do a 16GB version of the current phone in the 1st half of next year, or that they will not update the phone in the coming 12 months?
I find that hard to believe.

Yes, and only time will tell. Experience of how apple functions has shown they don't update to the latest tech straight away. Where are the SR macbooks, for example?

On 2.5G, and speaking from experience,I think it's way too slow for websurfing.

Using an iPhone? With EDGE?

 

[tripwire]

Only time will tell. Experience of how apple fucntion has shown they don't update to the latest tech straight away. Where are the SR macbooks, for example.

Using an iPhone? With EDGE?

No,via a pcmcia card in my laptop connected to an edge network.

 

[Diatribe]

It only has to be available. Not necessarily _widely_ available.

Try and buy a Touch in the UK a month after launch date....it's still hard.

We will see I guess. I just think Apple is missing out on a lot of business. They should have just sold it to the telecom companies for $800-1000 and then let them subsidize it. At least this way Apple would have made money all over the world not just in some select countries.

 

[emotion]

No,via a pcmcia card in my laptop.

Exactly my point. That's a different device to the iPhone.

We will see I guess. I just think Apple is missing out on a lot of business. They should have just sold it to the telecom companies for $800-1000 and then let them subsidize it. At least this way Apple would have made money all over the world not just in some select countries.

Maybe but Apple have a different strategy to a normal phone manufacturer like, say, HTC.

It remains to be seen if their approach is valid.

 

[goosnarrggh]

Just for a bit of context...

In North America, incoming landline telephone calls are always free unless the sender calls collect.

Outgoing landline telephone calls within the "local calling area" are "free" for the sender. It's not really free, though. Effectively, it's just that unlimited anytime minutes are built into the fixed monthly tariffs.

The definition of a "local calling area" varies depending on which telephone company is providing you with landline service. I've heard of companies, for example, that define all of New York State as a single local area. Other companies may divide the local calling areas arbitrarily (eg. according to county lines). Still other companies actually have overlapping local areas, so that a village located mid-way between two cities might be within the local calling area of both cities, but the two cities themselves would be outside of each others' local calling areas.

Generally speaking, cellular telephones are registered with the wireless company as being primarily located at a particular geographical location.

Outgoing landline calls made to a cellular telephone that is registered within the landline caller's local calling area are always reckoned as "local" as far as the caller is concerned, and therefore free, regardless of the actual physical location of the cellular telephone.

Landline calls made to a telephone number registered outside the local calling area, regardless of whether it is cellular or landline, are reckoned as long distance calls and are charged according to the long distance plan to which the landline caller is subscribed.

When a cellular telephone is located within its registered local calling area, all incoming calls are reckoned at the "local" rate. Outgoing calls to other numbers registered within the local calling area, regardless of whether they are landline or wireless numbers, are also reckoned at the same local rate. Outgoing calls to numbers registered outside the local calling area are reckoned at the long distance rate.

When a cellular telephone moves outside its registered the local calling area but is still within an area that is covered by their wireless company, different rules can take effect depending on the carrier. For example, the "local" rate for incoming and outgoing calls might move with the phone as it moves in and out of different local calling areas. Alternatively, the phone might start treating every incoming and outgoing call as long distance regardless of origin or destination. Or any part of the spectrum in between.

When a cellular telephone enters an area that is not covered by their wireless company, they may be able to roam onto a competitor's network if the two companies have appropriate agreements in place and use compatible technology. Roaming in this case incurs yet another different set of rates.

As far as texting goes, I've never had to pay for an incoming domestic text message on Canadian carriers Rogers, Telus, or Bell-Aliant. The ability to place outgoing domestic text messages has a cost attached. I think all overseas text messages, both incoming and outgoing, have a cost. I cannot comment on what other North American carriers do re texting.

 

[tripwire]

Exactly my point. That's a different device to the iPhone.

Yeah, but surfing the web on the iPhone is going to be just as fast at best.
Page rendering on the iPhone will be slower in most cases due to the slower processor.