iPhone SE 2 Again Rumored to Launch in First Half of 2018

Discussion in 'MacRumors.com News Discussion' started by MacRumors, Nov 22, 2017.

  1. Tozovac, Nov 28, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017

    Tozovac macrumors 65816


    Jun 12, 2014
    Don’t laugh. How can it not be obvious to anyone at this point that Jony and Tim’s way of giving something new each year is to continually take something away and give something less each year. As long as Tim keeps letting Jony and Craig work as if Apple was just some giant imagined minimalization design contest that customers are screaming for, I’m afraid we’re stuck with continued removal of things in hardware and software that make Apple products fun and easy to use as Jony keeps trying to strip away any and all “unnecessary” pixels, ports, buttons, switches, etc. while continually letting bugs and inconsistencies slip through, unfixed for years. Sad.
  2. Abazigal macrumors G3


    Jul 18, 2011
    I would have it no other way.
  3. conifer macrumors regular

    Oct 30, 2014
    I liked the face id. It didn't work every time in the few days I had the phone which meant I was typing password. I didn't like my confusion when I switched to my other phones without face Id and without gestures, the phones look too much alike yet one works differently. I did not like the way video looked on the X, too narrow. The animoji or whatever was cute for a second but ultimately weird and yes the Apple folks at the demo, I didn't believe for a second that they were into them, they are hoping for the vr experience to come. I loved loved the gestures but with all this and steep price, I could see myself being exasperated with the phone and so I returned it.Give Apple credit, it's here now so it is a phone in the present but they marketed it correctly as the future. So hopefully all the beta testers will help Apple improve the phone for us next year.

    Once I returned the phone, my confusion left and I was once again not confused and happy with my IOS devices. I swapped the 5s which I love the way it feels in my hand --still! 4 years after use -- with the SE. A little thicker but fine and solid. 6s is growing on me as it's still pretty fast and I stayed away from iOS 11 until they optimize it , probably 11.2 or 11.3.

    I see the SE 2 as getting a combo of 8/x features as apple's signal to everyone this is the future and spurs developers to create VR apps. The Se one drops in price to be the cheap phone. At that time I will evaluate whether I want the gestures. Coming from a palm pre, I miss them and love them.

    The x will grow thinner and the notch will shrink over time , giving new x owners reason to disparage the initial design.
  4. Ladybug macrumors 65816


    Apr 13, 2006
    Yes it is sad. I guess I should have used the /s at the end.
  5. Tozovac macrumors 65816


    Jun 12, 2014
    Oh to still be young and inexperienced and naive again. Or just old and naive. ;) An engineer/designer who really is good and not just a one-trick pony would understand “robustness” and balance...extending their vision or direction beyond their current path, even just as an exercise, to see whether they’re on a solid path... I grew up with a dozen tv channels to choose from; now I have 300 but watch only the same 10-15 channels 99% of the time. Obviously being forced to pay for 10,000 channels would be better, no? I sure prefer having two independent wall switches in each room for my home’s fans & ceiling lights. Would it be better to simplify to one switch for all 5 fans and require two 3 foot chains to hang down at each? Or no switch no chains and do it all by laggy software? Simpler/less is better, no?

    We’ll see if you and other “Jony Appleseed can do no wrong” folk keep whistling your tune as Jony keeps killing the fun/ease of use factor.
    --- Post Merged, Nov 28, 2017 ---
    Think how thin that would be too!
  6. Mac 128 macrumors 601

    Mac 128

    Apr 16, 2015
    No case. Have never used one. Never will. Never broken the glass. I want the phone to have as small a profile as possible, and slip easily in and out of my jeans pockets.

    An ~4.7-sized display can easily fit into the same case as the SE using the same bezeless design as the X. They're not going to change the old SE, but why can't the new iPhone SE be bezeless with FaceID?
  7. PickUrPoison macrumors 68020

    Sep 12, 2017
    Sunnyvale, CA
    If it had a notch, it could be bezelless, true. Yes, 4.7 would fit physically into a bezelless SE sized phone but those that like the reachability (with their thumb) of a 4.0” display wouldn’t necessarily find 4.7” as usable when trying to reach the top corners of a 4.7” display. And you would need to access the top left and top right with the new swipe gestures.

    But the main issue is that a smaller X is a $900 phone, whereas the SE is $350. The SE is meant to be the least expensive phone. Like they’ll be doing with the rumored 6.5” X Plus, Apple could of course make a smaller X.

    However, it wouldn’t be a replacement for the current $350 SE, and in general demand is low for smaller phones—even when they’re much cheaper than larger phones. So I don’t expect Apple to offer that anytime soon, if ever.
  8. Mac 128 macrumors 601

    Mac 128

    Apr 16, 2015
    I prefer reachabilty, and have no problem reaching the very top edges of my SE with my thumb. At least no more trouble than reaching the top of the current display. Smaller hands can't even reach it now. YMMV. And why wouldn't they add a notch? If that's the direction Apple is going with all of their phones, as well as face recognition, then why wouldn't the "SE" be updated with it at some point?

    The SE has Touch ID, which at one point was a top of the line feature in the twice as expensive 5s. The features of the X won't be $900 forever. If 3D Touch is even still a thing, I'd expect the new SE to maybe get that, and then eventually bezeless with a notch, or whatever Apple is pushing next.

    But, I disagree that Apple would never offer a top of the line small phone. Apple is offering a small phone now, which had most of the features of the flagship 6s at the time, for half the price of the 6s the time it was released. If Apple offered a small flagship phone, even if they only got half as many customers as the SE, that's still substantially more money for what is essentially a compact version of something they've already paid the R&D for, and gives them a model, like the iPhone 5, which they can also squeeze potentially 6+ years out of. So any effort by Apple to offer a high end model, is amortized over the projected life of the model, not how many rich customers choose it as an option during its premium release year.

    What doesn't make sense is redesigning a one-off budget phone at all. With the exception of the 5c -- which was just a cheaper plastic version of the same case they already engineered -- Apple has never done it. They've always invested in the top of the line model, then depreciated the design over time, selling it for less -- indeed the 5c was merely a variation of that. It's a business model that seems pretty effective, so I'm not sure why they would change it now.

    So if Apple offers merely a budget replacement for the SE with this rumor, then it will likely just be a larger spec-bumped 6, which tends to be more popular anyway, and keep around the original SE as a truly budget phone, with no spec bumps at all. Unfortunately that doesn't help small handset customers at all. So suddenly reachabilty no longer is even a factor at all, making a bezeless phone far more desirable for those who have reachabilty issues, over having no small-sized phone at all.

    It would be in Apples best interest then, to serve their customers demand, to likewise offer a minimally compromised design rather than continue offering two designs, neither of which fully serve their customers needs -- even if that means offering a premium 4" phone that isn't very successful, as an inexpensive prototype for the next generation budget phone which engineering will be servicable for many years to come.
  9. StarShot macrumors 6502a


    Mar 31, 2014
    Last year we took a 25 day trip to New Zealand and left my IP7 at home, taking my IP5 S. Loved the size for traveling. I had it unlocked before leaving and just popped a local New Zealand sim card in it, then HotSpotting to my iPad.

    I recently sold it and am starting to regret it to the point where I'm thinking of buying the newer IP5 SE. The SE 2 might be the one I would add to my Road Warrior gear. My regular phone is the new X. Love the screen, but am less than wild about the "gestures".
  10. PickUrPoison macrumors 68020

    Sep 12, 2017
    Sunnyvale, CA
    You might see a full width bezel instead of a notch in a theoretical smaller X because the ears just might not be wide enough to be useful (assuming the notch would stay it’s current width).

    In any case, current market share estimates tell the story. Like you said, when the SE was introduced, it was mostly on par with the flagship 6S. The SE is estimated to have sold approx 40 million to date, while the 6S and 6S Plus combined have sold over 200 million. Many of the SE sales were likely due to its low price, not because buyers wanted a small phone.

    There simply is not very much demand for small phones. In fact, even the 4.7” non-plus model has been eclipsed by the Plus model for the first time, just this year. The trend is clearly to larger phones, and I don’t think you’ll ever see a flagship smaller than the current X.

    With such low demand for small phones, you may be right that the 4.0” form factor is dead and there will be no actual refresh; the new $349 phone could be a 4.7” 6S with maybe an A10 bump. It may be de-featured to make the price point; a less expensive display, no 3D Touch, no barometer, etc. depending on Apple’s costs.
  11. oldmacs macrumors 68040


    Sep 14, 2010
    No I'm being serious. Maybe take a step back and realise that not everyone's phone requirements are the same as yours.

    The X is a step back for me. No physical home button, no Touch ID, no headphone port, not usable (FOR ME) one handed, very easily breakable, control centre at the top and I find it very uncomfortable to hold.

    Each to their own. I can't stand anything bigger than my SE. Most of my iPhone usage is one handed and that is how I like it. I have 0 need for anything larger than 4 inches and I find the larger screens (4.7 and above) difficult to use.

    Yes there is. I do prefer touch ID, FACE ID is inferior for me. What if my phone is flat on the table and I want to unlock it without picking it up? Or I want to discreetly unlock it? Apple Pay with Face ID is a backwards steps. Plenty of scenarios that Touch ID is preferable to Face ID for me.

    The market does exist. The X is an inferior phone for me. There are many reasons I bought the SE and I am yet to be let down by it.
  12. Novus John macrumors regular

    Sep 27, 2015
    I got the iphone SE for my mom, who prefers smaller phones. At first I suggested I get her at least an iphone 6/6s but she was repulsed by its size. So, I did the deed and got her the smaller phone. While I was setting up the phone, I got pleasantly surprised by its physical size, speed, and reachability. It fits very well in my hand and I can reach anywhere on the screen with just my thumb.
  13. Tech198 macrumors G5

    Mar 21, 2011
    Australia, Perth
    I can't see Apple removing the headphone jack on the *budget phone* ....... If they do, they would just to keep the pace iPhone X and some others, but the bulky phone says u have room.... lots of room :D

    If you make the SE slim, then the price will jump and will no longer be a phone we can all afford. which how apple marketed it as anyway..
  14. HarryWild macrumors 65816


    Oct 27, 2012
    I agree, poor people need a headphone jack! They cannot afford bluetooth headphones like middle school kids.
  15. Tozovac, Dec 24, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2017

    Tozovac macrumors 65816


    Jun 12, 2014
    Wrong. Some people appreciate physical buttons with instant (and I mean instant) connectivity, plus with the flexibility to connect to headphones, semi-older cars with a physical input jack, speaker systems in their garage or laundry room or work area. For many of us, that instant functionality is as important and helpful as physical volume controls.

    Would you be uok if your car key fob was taken away and you could only/always open & lock your car doors, trunk, etc. via your iPhone? Be honest.
  16. Freddy Fruitfly macrumors newbie

    Sep 15, 2017
    Some new rumors would be highly appreciated, right?
  17. scoobydoo99, Dec 31, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2017

    scoobydoo99 macrumors 6502a

    Mar 11, 2003
    so cal
    Not at all. The #1 feature is that it's NOT an unwieldy, gargantuan phablet that won't fit in a pocket!
    Added benefits include solid build quality vs. the lightweight junk in the regular iPhone line. The SE also has sides that make it easy to hold vs. the rounded sides of the other iPhones that make them rock between fingers unsteadily. The iPhone SE has a real Home button instead of an artificial simulated vibration that decreases tactile feedback. A flush back camera allows the SE to be placed flat on a surface and not rock back and forth while typing. The SE has a lock button that's not directly opposed to volume buttons, so you don't accidentally turn volume up/down instead of locking. The lack of 3D Touch means that touch gestures work as intended instead of inadvertantly activating features that get in my way and decrease productivity. The iPhone SE can also be operated with one hand, whereas the huge iPhones can't. The list goes on.

    Price is the LEAST important feature of the SE. I'd pay iPhone X prices for the SE. It should be the flagship phone - it's better in every respect than the other iPhones (except, of course, processor/memory, which is the only upgrade I need).
    --- Post Merged, Dec 31, 2017 ---
    Please, lord no.
  18. Martyimac macrumors 65816


    Aug 19, 2009
    S. AZ.
    This is exactly what I want in the new SE also.

    Well stated.
  19. PickUrPoison, Dec 31, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2017

    PickUrPoison macrumors 68020

    Sep 12, 2017
    Sunnyvale, CA
    The SE is interesting to me. When it came out almost 2 years ago, it had similar specs to the then-flagship 6S except for the FaceTime camera, 3D Touch and TouchID 2. However, it did not sell that well, and imo none of the spec differences from the 6S would have made it sell any better. A good chunk of those that have been sold are no doubt due to price, and not a preference for a small phone.

    I think this proved to Apple that most people want larger phones—even when they’re quite a bit more expensive. You like smaller phones, as do others (including Mr. Jobs!). But the market has spoken on this point quite clearly. (In fact, the 4.7” iPhone 8 is outsold by the 5.5” 8 Plus.)

    I do think the SE will get an upgrade soon, because it does serve the lower end of the price spectrum. But that’s why you can’t expect certain flagship features, like A11 or 3GB RAM. After all, the near-flagship iPhone 8 doesn’t even have 3GB (only the larger-screen 8 Plus does).

    Anyway, I think it will get some relatively low-cost upgrades. The 5MP FaceTime camera and TouchID 2 from the 6S, and the A10 from the 7. No 3D Touch since no 4” phone ever had it, and Apple is unlikely to spend R&D and BOM cost to bring a feature of such small marginal value.

    The rumor mentions 32/128GB and 12MP rear camera; those are already features of the current SE. A slightly bigger battery is possible, but if it does go from 1,624 to 1,700 mAh it would be likely due to manufacturing/design practicalities rather than a deliberate attempt to squeeze in another 4% battery capacity.

    Anyway, besides an A10, TouchID 2 and the 5MP front-facing camera, I don’t foresee any other likely upgrades. The A10 alone will give it two more years of shelf life, and Apple will sell it basically unchanged during that time.
  20. sublunar macrumors 6502a

    Jun 23, 2007
    Apple don't break down the iPhone sales figures beyond average selling price though so there's no evidence to suggest that there's any issue with SE sales figures aside from an expectation that the SE model itself will continue on for another year as a low cost option within poorer markets such as India, Brazil etc.

    Given that we could expect manufacture to begin in India for local sales I would go so far as to expect the SE to continue in the current state for at least another year. To make this feasible I can see it going to a 32Gb and 64Gb size to push people needing more capacity to higher models.

    The SE arrived with so called flagship features as it was based on the A9 CPU and SoC that was in the flagship 6s at the time but on a 6 month delay which I assumed made sense because of yield.

    The following year (this year) they just doubled the capacity and increased the prices very slightly.

    For 2018 they could just cut the prices a bit while reducing the storage back and begin supplies from Indian factories in the knowledge that this would be the final year for the A9 SoC in a 'current' phone in top tier countries.

    In the usual 2H 2018 iPhone release schedule you might see the 7 become the low end modern iPhone, with 8 becoming the middle of the range and an 8s appearing above that with an X2 range topper.

    In my opinion there's way too many similar looking models in the range at that point and instead the 6s space where the 7 would have gone would be a 4" bumped spec iPhone with A11 CPU as in the iPhone 8 or at the very least the A10 from the 7.

    If there is more demand for 5.5" models there's scope for drastically reducing SKUs to push people more towards predetermined models.

    You then have a range thus:

    4" SE = A9 SoC (32Gb or 64Gb)
    4" SE2 (or X Mini) = A10 (or A11) SoC (32Gb or 128 or 256Gb)
    4.7" 5.5" 8 = A11 SoC (32Gb or 128Gb) - could cancel the 4.7" if it starts to bump into the SE2 or X Mini
    4.7" or 5.5" 8s = A12 SoC (64Gb or 256Gb)
    iPhone X = A11 SoC (32Gb or 128Gb)
    iPhone X2 = A12 SoC (64Gb or 256Gb)
  21. Tozovac macrumors 65816


    Jun 12, 2014
    Exactly. The SE is the last "reasonably well-balanced-designed" iPhone. Everything after has had too much change for the sake of change, innovation for the sake of innovation. Hell, automobiles across all makers are so mature & refined now that there's not much more room to innovate without starting to look like a caricature via forced change for the sake of change (all Lexuses now, and now certain newer Hondas), so trying to innovate with something as small as an iPhone is now starting to run past into caricature mode and into annoyance mode with all these "amazing" innovations. $1000+ for a phone that's likely to be dropped monthly *and* need to be replaced in 2-3 years, evidenced by none other than Apple who slows down Phones with aging batteries.

    Enjoy having a well-balanced phone (SE) while we can...
  22. InuNacho macrumors 65816


    Apr 24, 2008
    In that one place
    I love my SE. It's small, has a smaller battery which means it charges faster regardless of the charger, has a headphone jack, and most importantly is 3 times cheaper than an X.
    If they could somehow smash the dual camera system in it without making a tumor bulge, I'd be in heaven.
  23. Zagor13 macrumors member

    Jan 25, 2016
    sure they are using X with two hands and they look like clowns holding a brick from the 80s just thinner
  24. Wolfpup macrumors 68030

    Sep 7, 2006
    It's two years behind, not 4.

    It may not be huge, but it certainly exists.

    I'm mixed on phone size. The 4" iPhones are kind of perfect for the hand, but larger is better for viewing stuff, BUT on the other hand even the largest phones aren't actually that much larger that it makes much of a difference for me. I still end up wanting an iPad or full PC if I'm interacting with it much.

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